Something I'm curious about....

[uptheironsfromportugal]

SinisterMinisterX, High priest  , your catch frase is awesome... lets hope neither bruce or nico be cristians   and they dont work for "the other boss" xD

 

[Suicidehummer]

Depends - it could have been meant from the perspective of a Christian point of view, who is questioning his belief. I imagine he could justify it if he wanted to.

Exactly, I have always interpreted the song as being written from the perspective of a Christian who is questioning religion.

 

[Jeffmetal]

Believing in God or Christ has nothing to do with being catholic, evangelist, prostestant or whatever. These are concepts that gave brith to religion, not the other way around. Religion twists and blurs the concepts of God, Satan and Christ.

 

[LooseCannon]

Ugh. No, monotheism is a Jewish concept; Christ is Christian. The various sects that slot into those titles are different, yes. Religion is responsible for the concepts of a diety, and the Abrahamic religious tree is responsible for Satan and Christ. Before those religions, people didn't really think you were punished when you died, and they tended to pray to a multitude of gods, rather than just one.

I guess I said "Christ is Christian", but that's not really true either. Moreover, Christ is a conglomerate of other middle-eastern faiths that existed in the run-up to the founding of Christianity - a mish-mash of Persian, Jewish, and Egyptian beliefs, primarily.

 

[Jeffmetal]

Include Mayan, Sumerian, Aztec. All of them have the concept of Christ. But these are not religious concepts, these were legends, basically, that had nothing to do with religion. People started worshiping these myths and then they were turned into deities, people gatheres to adore then and then religion came along.

 

[SinisterMinisterX]

Mayan and Aztec would not have affected Xianity.

 

[LooseCannon]

I guess I better ask what you mean by the "concept of Christ".

 

[Jeffmetal]

Xianity, as far as I know, is the same as Christianity.

---

Christ is more of a trace of personality than a man that actually existed. He's the harbinger of the teachings of the supreme, and after his crucifixion, he's the accuser, the one who'll judge and punish when needed. In other words, he's the good and the evil, he's Lucifer (as Jesus refers to himself) and Satan, the builder and the destroyer. That's what we all are and everything is, the duality. As a friend of mine use to say there's only 2 ways to learn things - by love or pain; humankind chose not to learn by love when they had the chance, now learn by pain.

I hadn't noticed that FFTGGOG lyrics had been mentioned, but as with No More Lies, Steve questions Christ's deeds and his knowledge - how far a man would go to open people's eyes and make sacrifices to see a higher moral of brotherhood and goodness among mankind? That's a question myself, which don't like organized religion, but like to read about all the primal and essential religions there are, pose on how much suffering we go through in life to make those we know and love better beings. How much of the hystorical Christ there in us? That's what I meant about concept of Christ. Anyone can be Christ 'cos it's a point of view, a vow one make to himself and as a compromise with their fellow men. That's the essential christian belief.

 

[SinisterMinisterX]

 

[Jeffmetal]

This represents you or I?

 

[SinisterMinisterX]

Yes.

 

[Jeffmetal]

Well, the way I put it is really unusual. This is what I came up with after gathering info about religion and its concepts (and we could use our lives investigating and keep coming with even more questions). Maybe you're used to conventional wisdom, so it might disturb you a bit or sound silly, but I think is not that hard to understand what I want to say with my opinion.

 

[LooseCannon]

Well, the way I put it is really unusual. This is what I came up with after gathering info about religion and its concepts (and we could use our lives investigating and keep coming with even more questions). Maybe you're used to conventional wisdom, so it might disturb you a bit or sound silly, but I think is not that hard to understand what I want to say with my opinion.

Sorry, I really don't understand what you're trying to say. I don't get what you're trying to say about duality. I especially don't see how this applies to Mayan or Aztec (or other pre-European native American) religions. Christ isn't a universal concept. Very few religions actually discuss the concept of "damnation". It's a uniquely Abrahamic concept.

 

[Jeffmetal]

In Mayan and Aztec religions, Christ has another names - Kukulcan and Quetzalcoatl, respectively. Christ is an universal concept, but he has a multitude of names, so he's not known as such in every place. Jesus Christ is the most well known alas. Damnation is a word I didn't thought of when I mentioned the punishement. It has more to do with karma, like in budhism, where the actions one takes has their outcome, both individually and collectively.

I think what I said didn't hook on what was being discussed in this thread which was pretty disjointed, already. I think I just tried to give the thread a reference for the discussion to take a path, but it ended up making it even weirder. Sorry.

 

[Onhell]

I'm afraid you are WAY off. Quetzalcoatl, along with Tlaloc and Huitzilopochtli is more akin to the Greco-Roman gods than to the Judeo-Christian God Concept. They are benevolent gods interacting with mortals on ocassion, but they have no personal investment in humans. Not to mention it is a Pantheon of gods and like LC stating before, monotheism is a Judeo-Christian concept. To say Quetzalcoatl is "Christ-like" is imposing your cultural filter on the past. There have been many "christ figures" throughout literature and history prior to Christ, but like you said, Christ being the most popular example nowadays, they are referred to in such a way, but that in no way shape or form makes them "Christ."

Mesoamerican deities had, again, the same function of other polytheist societies, they were rulers of the elements. Quetzalcoatl linked to fertility and the wind among other things, Tlaloc to rain, etc. And any creation or destruction they bring is for the sake of the universe, not humanity...

 

[LooseCannon]

UNLEASH THE FURY OF MEXICO!

 

[____no5]

Mesoamerican deities had, again, the same function of other polytheist societies, they were rulers of the elements. Quetzalcoatl linked to fertility and the wind among other things, Tlaloc to rain, etc. And any creation or destruction they bring is for the sake of the universe, not humanity...

Hmmm, this reminds me my previous nick.... It was a dinosaur, wait

[...]

In deed : Quetzalcoatlus !   So it comes from a Mesoamerican deity  

 

[Onhell]

It means "Feathered serpeant," so I don't know 'bout no dinosaur Though there were feathered Dinos, and there is a theory circulating that even Veloceraptors, who were more birdlike than lizard like, were feathered... interesting stuff, so could be. I haven't read up on Dinosaurs since the fourth grade lol.

 

[Jeffmetal]

Another interesting stuff is that the DNA of birds are the same of the dinosaurs/reptiles.

 

[Onhell]

No it's not. It is as "the same" as ours is from that of a Chimpanzee. Very similar? Of course. There was a very interesting documentary on the Discovery channel about how did birds learn to fly, was it from the ground up or from the top down (gliding off of trees) and they spoke about the geneological tree that houses dinosaurs, reptiles and birds... I don't recall the name, but I'm sure you can find it on the website, highly recommended.