Shrieving.......but the sins are small to moderate

T

The Hermit

Invader
Old fan......new poster to this forum.

Warm greetings to all Maiden fans out there....having checked out some of the posts it seems like y'all have a nice, cosy little online community of like-minded Maiden worshippers going here.  I apologise in advance for any redundancy in the following post and for any offence it might cause.

Saw Maiden at Yokohama on the 15th of February, this being the first time in about 16 years......I've been busy....what else can I say.  As you all know (No point preaching to the choir) Maiden haven't let it drop a fraction and are still the best live band around.......one would like to say 'and will be so forever', but you have to allow for the possibility that at some point in the future some other band may come along and be even better than Maiden.....no matter how slight the possibility.

Maiden have done something no other band has matched......without fail they have produced album after album of the finest quality and then totally nailed the live performance.  And they've done this for over 30 years.  They 9500 yen ticket price for the Yokohama show was reasonable without doubt......to be honest if a monetary figure could be calculated for all the pleasure their music has brought me, the debt I owe Maiden could surely not be paid......thank god I share the cost with all their other fans.

But on that subject I have a small point to make.....in the vain hope that somehow this post might seep back to the band.

There is a point in the Live After Death show where Bruce waxes lyrical about why Maiden have never been big on MTV etc, stating that it is their music and their fans that are important and not the objective of making money.  Now I'm not naive enough to believe that Iron Maiden is a charitable organisation.  I wish the boys great financial success and have already stated my indebtedness to them........however.......5000 yen for a T-shirt! (that's about 23 pounds!)........4500 yen for a baseball cap!! (20 pounds!!),  10,000 yen for a sweatshirt,  2000 yen for a keyring (you do the maths).........granted it's been a long time since my last concert......but has inflation hit the T-shirt industry so hard the last few years?

And why does the LAD Japanese DVD cost 5800 yen when the import version costs 3500 yen........2300 yen for a few Japanese subtitles and a translated booklet.  I'm not Japanese but if I were I might feel that I'm being scalped by somebody.  Run to the Hills!!!!!!!  Now if this is Record company bureaucracy that is setting the prices I would appeal to the band to step in and save your fans from this abuse.  As for the merchandise prices.......they would probably sell two T-shirts at 3000 yen a piece (instead of one at 5000 yen) and make even more money per fan whilst giving the fan greater value and a greater sense that Maiden don't just see their fans as cash cows to be milked dry as often as possible.

I love Maiden.  I love their music.  The world is a better place for all that they have given us.  But I just felt that a little honesty was needed on this subject.  The whining stops here.  Apologies all round.
 
Hi Hermit.  You're not the only one who thinks this way.  There have been numerous complaints in the past.  I believe RealWorld had created a topic like this one.  Anyhow,  you're right,  those prices are indeed ridiculous.
 
The Hermit said:
And why does the LAD Japanese DVD cost 5800 yen when the import version costs 3500 yen........2300 yen for a few Japanese subtitles and a translated booklet.  I'm not Japanese but if I were I might feel that I'm being scalped by somebody.  Run to the Hills!!!!!!!  Now if this is Record company bureaucracy that is setting the prices I would appeal to the band to step in and save your fans from this abuse.  As for the merchandise prices.......they would probably sell two T-shirts at 3000 yen a piece (instead of one at 5000 yen) and make even more money per fan whilst giving the fan greater value and a greater sense that Maiden don't just see their fans as cash cows to be milked dry as often as possible.
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I can jump in here. It's apparently been a long lasting tradition now that Japanese records in general are more expensive than imports. That's why the Japanese record companies usually add some sort of bonus -from translated lyrics sheets to bonus tracks- to the product so the public will buy the Japanese products over the imports. Which is also why Japanese issues are very sought-after in the west. For example, I recall seeing an old Japanese Number Of The Beast LP once which included Total Eclipse, and I also think The X Factor was initially released as a double-CD in Japan. There really are hundreds, if not thousands, of such examples.

As to why Japanese records are more expensive than imports, I can't tell you.

Anyway, welcome aboard Hermit! Even if you're not Japanese yourself, it's always nice to have a member from the other side of the world. ;)
 
Japanese albums are often later on the market than elsewhere. To prevent the Japanese from buying e.g. the European version, they get a bonustrack. Like this, they wait for their own product, and get more for it, in the form of a bonustrack.

That's the theory, and that's the goal of this system. It's better for the Japanese economy.

Knowing this, it does not sound logical that their own CDs are more expensive than foreign CDs. Perhaps it has to do with the extra subtitles, or the importance of internet, which makes (import) ordering more cheaper nowadays(?)
 
My guess is that this is simply economics at work.  If record companies would make more money selling CDs or DVDs in Japan at a lower price, presumably they would.  I have spoken to a number of senior executives at one of the four "major" record companies, and they are nothing if not profit-maximizing.  Note: there is nothing immoral or unethical about this.  Economics is amoral.  A seller will price up to a level at which he can maximize profits, no more and no less.  So, if they were to lower prices, they might sell more units, but probably wouldn't make more money, as a higher price on fewer units can certainly yield greater profits.  There usually are substitutes for any product, and if the price gets too high, customers will buy the substitute instead.  It sounds like the substitute for buying the higher-priced Japanese SKUs is buying the imported SKUs -- and for the record company, either way the money probably flows into their pockets.  Thus, they can take advantage of premium pricing for Japanese domestic releases, and also take advantage of differential pricing by selling the lower-priced imports to more price-sensitive buyers.  Even if the record company isn't doing the importing itself, it is still selling those units somewhere.  Plus, no matter what the record company charges a retailer for the units, the retailer can (subject to some limitations that I won't get into) charge whatever price he likes, and will also seek to maximize his profits.  Adding subtitles and Japanese-language packaging might add some cost to the release, but no more so than for a release in China, or Poland, or Brazil, etc.  No, this is just marketing, and it boils down to one simple principle:  they charge higher prices simply because they can.  If people wouldn't buy, then the prices would go down.  We see the same thing here in the U.S. -- record prices have dropped considerably given the availability through iTunes and other online providers of cheap music, but not as much as you might expect.  For example, Radiohead offered its new album FOR FREE on its website, yet when the hard copy CDs came out in record stores, Radiohead still sold enough copies at $12-15 to hit #1 on the Billboard Top 200.  If people will still pay it, companies will keep prices as high as they can. 
 
Id like to point out to everyone above that he didnt mention CDs at all and you may have missed the point slightly.

The only reason I can fathom of why its more expensive in Japan is possibly some greedy bugger somewhere down the line. As much as Bruce/Steve/whoever will say that the band is all about the music and not the money, the fact is, Iron Maiden has a very large business running in merchandise. Now, the band can't possibly manage the whole thing by themselves and its inevitable that somewhere down the line, theres some business person who will make some decisions and we end up with the rediculous prices.

Unfortunately, we live in a largely capitalist society, and this is pretty much life. Money makes the world go around and no matter how good-willed people are, they can't possibly run a multi-national organisation without having some employee of it trying to be greedy somewhere.
 
You're all hitting the target on this one.

For Sneaky:  'ridiculous' is a good word for the merchandise prices.  I live and work in Japan.  With the current exchange rate situation the Japanese are not a 'rich' people.  And life here was expensive to start with.  $40 for a baseball cap!!??


For Perun, Foro and Cornfed:  You're all correct.  Domestic CDs have always been more expensive here.  The consumer receives added value in the form of Japanese sleeve notes, lyric translations and often bonus tracks.....the price differential doesn't always seem to balance out though.....Record company maths: 2 + 1 = 5.  Cornfed is right in that it really comes down to what the market will bear.  The internet has opened things up a lot in recent years.  Amazon that great leveller of prices offers the import DVD at a very reasonable 2200 yen and the Japanese version at 4300 yen. Improved prices over those in your local music store.....but as I can see no difference in the actual product....apart from the obvious addition of sleeve notes and subtitles for the Japanese consumer......I have to feel that the translation fee must have been very healthy......I'm spotting a new career opportunity here.

DVDs are generally more expensive here in Japan anyway.....the DVD movie market is small, but growing, and new release prices are slowly coming down.  In that context the LAD DVD is not so expensive.....it's only when compared to imports that the domestic prices are revealed to be the price gouged figures that they are.

Ardius is also correct to point out that the band are probably not involved in the minutiae of global product pricing - the sins of delegated responsibility.  The Iron Maiden Commercial Machine can easily shrug its shoulders and resign itself to the fact that that's the way things are done in Japan.  I would be interested to see where the extra 2000 yen per DVD goes though.  The whole debate of recent years with regard to the economics of the music industry has centered on the worries of music execs and bands, nervous that they would not be able to reap their just rewards from their own creative endeavours.  If Maiden aren't getting that extra 2000 yen then I want to hear the music exec justify how his contribution has doubled the value of the DVD and why EMI should thus profit from his creative genius.  Oooooh and I promised I wouldn't whine anymore.

On an aside.......and going back to the merchandise prices......what's the going rate for a T-shirt at a Maiden gig in the states?  Are you guys paying almost $50 a shirt?
 
My response dealt specifically with the discussion of the price of the recordings, and in particular the observation that Japanese domestic releases are often more expensive than imports.  On that end, the band probably has very little direct say in how DVDs (or CDs) are priced in Japan.  I'm not sure who their distributor is in Japan, but I doubt they do it themselves.  They use EMI in the U.S., for example. 

Regarding merchandise at the concerts, it is less clear is how much say they have regarding pricing of merchandise at the shows.  Based on the tour diaries, it appears that Rod Smallwood is intimately involved in approving merchandise and tracking merchandising receipts at each show.  It wouldn't surprise me if Steve Harris were kept apprised of these things, as well, but that is just speculation. 

The band probably does have a philosophy of keeping concert ticket prices affordable and democratic -- $67 or less per ticket is fairly reasonable compared to what other artists charge -- so that anyone can see the show.  But, not everyone needs to buy a t-shirt, so that may be why merchandise at Iron Maiden shows is no less expensive than merchandise at other concerts.  At the AMOLAD tour, t-shirts were $40 and up, as I recall. 
 
The Hermit said:
On an aside.......and going back to the merchandise prices......what's the going rate for a T-shirt at a Maiden gig in the states?  Are you guys paying almost $50 a shirt?
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If I recall correctly, they were $40 at the last 2 shows I went to (Give Me Ed and Early Days).

For comparison, they were something like $15 at my first Maiden show in 1987. So was the ticket. I saw Somewhere On Tour, and came away with a Stranger In A Strange Land shirt, for a total cost less than a shirt costs today.
 
SinisterMinisterX said:
If I recall correctly, they were $40 at the last 2 shows I went to (Give Me Ed and Early Days).

For comparison, they were something like $15 at my first Maiden show in 1987. So was the ticket. I saw Somewhere On Tour, and came away with a Stranger In A Strange Land shirt, for a total cost less than a shirt costs today.
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If you adjust for inflation would it even come close to today's prices? I bought a T-shirt at Heaven and Hell for $40 bucks, so it seems to be merchandising across the board, not just maiden...
 
SinisterMinisterX said:
If I recall correctly, they were $40 at the last 2 shows I went to (Give Me Ed and Early Days).

For comparison, they were something like $15 at my first Maiden show in 1987. So was the ticket. I saw Somewhere On Tour, and came away with a Stranger In A Strange Land shirt, for a total cost less than a shirt costs today.
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Though, the dollar was worth more back then. I mean, it's down  at 1$ = 6,35 Swedish Crowns. It used to be worth 11 crowns a few years back.
 
Mind you that this time Maiden is on the road (air) with an aeroplane and that makes things not exactly cheaper (merchandising, ticket prices...). Thus it's obvious that they probably have to ask these steep prices this time, although I must admit of being concious that prices tend to get higher and higher every tour they embark on.
 
Cosmiceddie said:
Mind you that this time Maiden is on the road (air) with an aeroplane and that makes things not exactly cheaper (merchandising, ticket prices...). Thus it's obvious that they probably have to ask these steep prices this time, although I must admit of being concious that prices tend to get higher and higher every tour they embark on.
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::)
I highly doubt thats a reason to raise prices. Do I recall that they said it was technically cheaper doing it this way rather than hauling the stage kit all around through trucks.
Even if did cost more, its nothing to do with merchandising.
 
I suppose I should find some comfort in the fact that all of us are paying comparable prices for the merchandise......though I would have to wonder if the same prices will be charged in the Central and South American leg of the current tour......Fans in Japan may not feel rich.....but comparatively we've got to be slightly better placed financially than our cousins in Bogota or wherever.  $40-50 a shirt in San Jose may be a little more than the market can bear.

As for the economics of the tour......It can't be cheap.  Certainly I would imagine that the decision to charter their own plane would have been as much an economising move as for the convenience.  But there's still the transportation costs - plane charter, movement of band, crew and set to and from venue, venue rental, local staff wages, road crew wages, hotels, insurance, other countries I don't know...but promotion of the tour has been next to zero in Japan so promotion costs don't seem to be a factor, add it all up and you have to wonder, if receipts were ticket sales alone, whether touring is a profitable endeavour.  And yet you hear that touring is where many bands make money.  I'm guessing that those price inflated T-shirts line a lot of pockets.

The inflation of merchandise prices over time does seem to be higher than the average rate of inflation for the economy as a whole over the same period.  As Cornfed suggested earlier the prices are probably the Merchandisers best estimation of what the market will bear.  How much would you be prepared to pay for a Maiden T-shirt?.....at what price would you walk away?  For me....it's sad to say that I've bought my last Maiden T-shirt......I can no longer justify the expense......the bad news is that where I step back, my daughter takes over. And I ask myself who's going to be buying those T-shirts.  Gotta go now......can't let you see me cry..........
 
That's about 3800 yen a shirt at current exchange rates (25% cheaper than Japan!!!!!)........Now I am gonna cry.......and I don't care who sees.
 
Hermit, you beat me to it!  Yes, that's significantly cheaper then Japan.

I guess, as others have said, people pay the prices so they don't change them.  I'm willing to bet though, that they make more money through "merchandise bought per person" in Japan than any other country in the world.  The lines in Yokohama were unlike any I've seen at a show (well, since the last time they were here!), and it's always the same when Maiden come here.  People were buying multiple shirts along with the tour programs and other stuff too.

I won't tell you how many shirts I got, but they were a birthday present from my wife, otherwise I don't think I could have justified the expense either.

Having said all that, I do recall the prices in Australia were AU$50 per shirt which works out almost exactly the same as the Japanese prices.  I guess it's simply more expensive to tour the Pacific region and the prices reflect this.
 
The Hermit said:
That's about 3800 yen a shirt at current exchange rates (25% cheaper than Japan!!!!!)........Now I am gonna cry.......and I don't care who sees.
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Well, thats likely because of exchange rates, last I remember, the dollar is pretty weak now. I dont know what it is compared to yen.
 
The Hermit said:
....though I would have to wonder if the same prices will be charged in the Central and South American leg of the current tour.....
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They will. What you will find in the Central/South American leg is a lot of "unofficial" shirts being sold :D I remember getting one at a Metallica gig (my first concert ever) for 79 pesos (like 7.50 US at the time) :D
 
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