Satellite 15 mix defect

bornless1

Messiah Supreme. True Leader of Men.
The entire track being ruined by[ whatever it is you hear] is terribly unfortunate for you.  I honestly cannot hear anything strange about the drumming.  Other than the fact that the entire piece is rather unorthodox and different.  Even raw sounding to me. That is ON PURPOSE!

   Because of this over all raw sound of Sat 15, IF* there is an off beat, or pause or whatever your 'drummers ear' is picking up, I will take the bands final approval over yours.  If Steve, H, and every one else in the Maiden Camp, and the record Company don't hear it, I'm satisfied.  It's not something that others hear. Period.  It is not a mistake.  Why is that 'blind following'.?  Do you think you have a more keen seance of musical appreciation than Steve Harris?  Than Adrian Smith, or the professionals at the record company and the undoubted scores of 'trained ears' that proofed this record before it hit the market?  Please.  You are carrying on about something that is ludicrous.  

   And now it is 'aggressive' or 'insulting' for members of this forum to point out your mistake?  Sack up and admit this thread was meant to stir the mix.  No way you can believe what you've started here is legitimate.
 

Mosh

Winner of the 2020 Dumbest Comment Ever Award
Staff member
Dead Boss said:
Are you telling me, that there are no errors at concerts when they play live?  :huh:
I certainly recall Nicko missed intro of Sign of a cross at Rock in Rio.
that is different. That is human error. Could you imagine The intro to Aces High blaring through  the  P.A. and a guitar stopping in the middle of it? Live the S15 mistake will be easily heard and will ruin the tone that the lights and stage thing set.
 

LeakPlease

Prowler
Bornless, I have no idea how or why you can't hear the error, but it isn't insignificant just because you can't hear it.  Many many people wonder about this obvious mistake. 

There is no discussion about whether it is there or not.  It is undoubtedly a mistake.  It I'd just a question of why it was left in.  Everyone I know with a DECENT musical ear hears it immediately with zero cues.  I am positive I could point it out if you were listening to it with me.  It is so... Ah, drives me crazy...

Whatever.
 

lcarus

Prowler
Wow, at first I read this and blasted the song in my car to see if I could hear it.  I couldn't tell anything out of the ordinary and thought maybe I just didn't have a keen enough ear to ever notice.  But just now I played it on my PC speakers (which are terrible in quality compared to my car stereo, which is also average.  blah) and fast forwarded to 3:06 and NOW I can definitely hear what you are talking about.  Weird.  I never would have known had I not read it here.  Thanks for ruining that intro for me forever you assholes!!!  Lol, just kidding.  That song isn't one of my favs anyway.
 

bornless1

Messiah Supreme. True Leader of Men.
  Well I don't hear shi#.  There is a 'different', lower pitch, like a subtle change in the sound of the drum.  But the flow is there, and the beat never changes. And this repeats perfectly throughout the intro.  I don't know.  It sounds great to me, and thats all I care about really.  This "ruins" the song for someone?  Wow. That is negativity personified.  Whatever I hear in there {listening to 3:06-on} sounds perfectly intentional.  Perfect, no.  But again, the song is rough and eerie.  It is edgy, even the vocals are not flowing.  Every aspect of the piece is odd and the idea that this bit is unintentional seems insane.  You think they haven't heard this?  Or crazier yet, they {Steve Adrian BRUCE!!] are like "Fuc* it, push it through"???  Sorry for the abbreviation...but WTF?
 

pmerrill

Prowler
I don't hear any problems.  I used to play drums, and it sounds fine.  That whole part of the song is is almost nonsensical anyway, so does it really matter if there is an error?
 

Perun

Περούν Παντοκράτωρ
Staff member
Time to step in before this gets out of hand.

To those who care: Some people don't have drummer's ears and don't notice. Or even if they notice, to them it's a small mistake and not a big deal. Some consider it adding to the raw feel, some just can't be bothered.

To those who don't care: Some people have drummer's ears and cringe on this. They see it as a needless mistake and notice it right away.

Most points from both sides have been brought in, and to avoid this from becoming a fight, let me make clear that unless you have something new to add, you should consider not posting here. Some people here want to discuss this error and why it is there. Let them. If you don't have anything to say other than "I didn't notice it, you're being a nitpick, get a life" or whatever, stay out of this. If you don't care, don't post.
 

bornless1

Messiah Supreme. True Leader of Men.
  Well whatever we are hearing is 'there'. Of course.  The question is, is it a mistake.  And that is the real question here.  Drummers ear or not, I've heard plenty of albums, that no one finds a mistake on, and none sound as un-flawed as this one.  When you come out and say, there is a' mistake' on this song, you are actually saying either "Iron Maiden make mistakes on their studio albums, and are too stupid to know it". OR "Iron Maiden make mistakes on their studio albums, and could give such a shi$ about the product and the fans, that they just package it and throw it at us. 

    Sorry man, neither of those things represent the Maiden standards and respect levels for their music and loyal fans.  Think about this for a minute, before attempting to shun those that simply disagree with your allegations.
 

Mosh

Winner of the 2020 Dumbest Comment Ever Award
Staff member
I don't remember anyone saying maiden were "too stupid to notice". I think there are two possibilities: A:They didn't pay  much attention to the demo and missed it. B:They noticed it but they thought it fit the rawness of the track.
 

bornless1

Messiah Supreme. True Leader of Men.
  Ok. "Didn't pay attention-missed it"  No effin way.  Next.........."Noticed it, but thought it fit the rawness of the track." A reach, but possible.  This would almost imply that it fits the  track in the eyes and ears of the artist, and the record company, and any other editors.  Why then, can no one admit IT DOES FIT THE TRACK, AND WAS INTENDED!!??  These guys don't leave 'mistakes' in their final drafts.
 

Wästed The Great

Minister Of Chicks, Metal&Beer; Cool & Froody Dude
Staff member
If they don't leave mistakes, then it was intended.  If it was intended, and they never make mistakes, then they have no reason to defend it, because its exactly what they wanted.  It doesn't matter the reason, call it 'artistic license'.
 

bornless1

Messiah Supreme. True Leader of Men.
Well said.  Peace on earth, good will towards men, [and women], and Up the Mother Fuc*ing Irons.
 

lenny76

Prowler
I hear the mistake and I think it would be very strange if this is intentional. Why didn't they just use Nicko? This got to be the first time in history they ever use a drum machine.
 

Forostar

Ancient Mariner
The demo gave the right feel, and the band (or at least Steve) liked it so much, they wanted to keep it exactly like it.
 

Poto

Ancient Mariner
lenny76 said:
I hear the mistake and I think it would be very strange if this is intentional. Why didn't they just use Nicko? This got to be the first time in history they ever use a drum machine.

Because Nicko only has two arms and two feet.
 

chaosapiant

Ancient Marinade
Poto said:
Because Nicko only has two arms and two feet.

I think Nicko is more than capable of playing the drum machine's beat, but he'd probably go over the top with it, and lose the "sterile space" feel they were going for.
 

Zare

Uniformly distributed hostility
No he isn't. You need two hands on toms for that fill, yet the programmed beat has open hi-hat hits together with tom fills. Last time i checked, he's got two hands only.
When i think of it...Dream Theater's Metropolis from Images And Words. There's a part with fills, just before the joint guitar/keyboard solo (the fast funky 4/4 one). In that part, you can hear tube fills that need to be played with two sticks, yet there are open hi-hat hits also.

Of course, live, there are no open hi-hat hits, Portnoy plays hi-hat foot. But it's not nearly the same sound.

...and Nicko would eat that double bass pattern without much hassle. With his one foot only, of course.
 

snake plissken

Ancient Mariner
chaosapiant said:
he'd probably go over the top with it, and lose the "sterile space" feel they were going for.

Yeah I think people need to weigh the tiniest "defect" against the feel of the song. They obviously felt if they'd re-recorded it they would've lost the whole vibe of the demo. I think they made the right choice.
 

sasquashed

Prowler
My personal take is that this was an error Adrian made while making the demo, but didn't feel the need to correct it as it was just a demo.  The whole album was produced in a short period of time, with the band doing final writing and run-throughs during the recording period in the Bahamas.  I'm sure this time crunch was part of the decision not to correct such an error.  Besides, Steve is all about capturing a "live" sound in recording nowdays, and is willing to overlook technical errors in favor of "feel".  I don't mind this way of thinking.  Just think.... he could have pulled an Axl Rose and obsess and nitpick the recording to infinity (and take years to put it out).  The band seems to use recordings as an advertisement for their live show, instead of vice versa.  How novel!

I do wonder, however, if Adrian was totally onboard with letting the demo go on the album without further tweaking though, knowing how much of a perfectionist he is.
 

kbrearey

Prowler
Hi everyone.  I'm new here, but this topic piqued my interest.  I can hear the issue as well and think it is there due to the demo nature of it.  A poster originally mentioned that it sounds as if they copied and pasted a section of the music and looped it.  This is what it sounds like to me too.  Just for demo purposes they quickly grabbed a section of music and looped it just to kind of demonstrate (hence demo) what the track could sound like in finished form.  Maybe the band tried to fix this when they recorded the album in the Bahamas but just never got the 'feel' they got from the demo version and decided to keep it, warts and all.  This might sound like the band is purposely putting an inferior product out on the market, but if they were going by feel and thought that this take felt the best, they are actually putting out the best product they could have in this situation.  Of course, all of that is speculation on my part so I apologize to anyone who has more knowledge on the subject than I do.  However, even if this is the case, this doesn't necessarily say that the band has never intentionally put something out that wasn't as good as it could have been.  One only need look at the cover of 'Dance of Death' to see that.
 
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