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Rob77 said:
So someone who is racist likes working with foreigners. That is a glaring non sequiter and one of the weakest arguments I have heard in a very long time. Why on earth would someone who disliked foreigners choose to work with foreigners if they could just as easily work with people of the same nationality when he is paying their wages?
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1. I don't believe Bruce is a racist.

2. But him working with foreigners is not necessarily a convincing argument against it. What we've seen historically, and do to this day when it comes to prejudice, homophobia, transphobia, racism and so on, is that one can (choose) to accept an individual, but not the group. Like "you're not bad for a gay person", or "for a *insert nationality*, you're alright".
 
Rob77 said:
So someone who is racist likes working with foreigners. That is a glaring non sequiter and one of the weakest arguments I have heard in a very long time. Why on earth would someone who disliked foreigners choose to work with foreigners if they could just as easily work with people of the same nationality when he is paying their wages?
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Dude. You are crashing out. You're getting hysterical. Look at how unhinged your posting behavior is. Take a deep breath and read everything, from the beginning, with a clear mind. Then think about what you want to respond, formulate it, and hit reply.

Pardon the pendantry, but I believe it's warranted given the subject matter: It's non sequitur ;)

And no, you can't say "nuh uh" as a defense of your faulty argument and handwave criticisms away. Racists work with foreigners all the goddamn time. Have you never interacted with a Trump supporter for example? Or someone voting Reform?
Also, as I mentioned: Steve has literally made racist remarks about people of colour. In print. So, once again: Your arguments are weak and don't hold up to scrutiny. No need to lash out, think of better arguments instead.

But hey, no one's expecting the pro-Brexit side to be able to form a coherent argument.

Also, lest you still haven't noticed: The majority here has outright stated that they don't think Bruce is racist or xenophobic, so stop shadowboxing with strawmen. There's grass in dire need of touching.
 
Vaenyr said:
Dude. You are crashing out. You're getting hysterical. Look at how unhinged your posting behavior is. Take a deep breath and read everything, from the beginning, with a clear mind. Then think about what you want to respond, formulate it, and hit reply.

Pardon the pendantry, but I believe it's warranted given the subject matter: It's non sequitur ;)

And no, you can't say "nuh uh" as a defense of your faulty argument and handwave criticisms away. Racists work with foreigners all the goddamn time. Have you never interacted with a Trump supporter for example? Or someone voting Reform?
Also, as I mentioned: Steve has literally made racist remarks about people of colour. In print. So, once again: Your arguments are weak and don't hold up to scrutiny. No need to lash out, think of better arguments instead.

But hey, no one's expecting the pro-Brexit side to be able to form a coherent argument.

Also, lest you still haven't noticed: The majority here has outright stated that they don't think Bruce is racist or xenophobic, so stop shadowboxing with strawmen. There's grass in dire need of touching.
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Ok lets look at your strawman trump supporter. Lets say hes a racist and dislikes mexicans for the sake of argument.

Lets say he has his own business. Now i will accredit you with one scenario where he may chose to employ mexicans at a slave rate to exploit cheap labour. That is a situation where the strawman racist would chuckle and exploit people he didnt like. You could argue that is akin to slavery in a modern sense.

But a racist with a business where he could hire non foreigners for the same rate as foreigners? Why would they if it insulted their racist sensibilities so much? Again maybe if there was a much cheaper non union rate perhaps? Again they might be pleased to exploit people they hated but choosing to pay them full whack?

The trump supporter is then to say the least confused. If a racist doesnt like being around foreigners but then choses to be around foreigners that is an odd way to behave.

And you think you have won the argument? Ok.....
 
Rob77 said:
Ok lets look at your strawman trump supporter. Lets say hes a racist and dislikes mexicans for the sake of argument.

Lets say he has his own business. Now i will accredit you with one scenario where he may chose to employ mexicans at a slave rate to exploit cheap labour. That is a situation where the strawman racist would chuckle and exploit people he didnt like. You could argue that is akin to slavery in a modern sense.

But a racist with a business where he could hire non foreigners for the same rate as foreigners? Why would they if it insulted their racist sensibilities so much? Again maybe if there was a much cheaper non union rate perhaps? Again they might be pleased to exploit people they hated but choosing to pay them full whack?

The trump supporter is then to say the least confused. If a racist doesnt like being around foreigners but then choses to be around foreigners that is an odd way to behave.

And you think you have won the argument? Ok.....
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My Trump supporter example isn't a strawman. It's something that's happening all the time. Everywhere on the world. Racists work with foreign people all the time. Furthermore, one person being racist doesn't mean they are equally racist to every single ethnicity or race out there.

Racists and bigots are not know for being particularly intellectually gifted, educated or coherent in their worldviews. That's why me, and others here, have directly responded to you and mentioned the good old "you're one of the good ones" or the "I have a black friend" argument. Just because they tolerate or are friends with one individual, doesn't mean that they don't hold racist beliefs about the collective.

And because you keep ignoring factual information: Steve Harris has made racist remarks against people of colour in an interview that was printed. Yet we also know that he's worked with people of mixed heritage and so on. By your logic this shouldn't be possible.

Racism and bigotry most often stem from ignorance and fear of the unknown. Read up on Daryl Davis:
en.wikipedia.org

Daryl Davis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

He actively befriended members of the KKK and managed to tear them away from their white supremacist views.

You also need to read up on cognitive dissonance in racists, which is by no means a new topic:
 
It is honestly morbidly hilarious how whenever someone criticizes Bruce for his Brexit vote or Leana for her far right views, there are always people coming out of the woodwork to debate. Without fail lol

It's not really about defending Bruce's views and decisions. They simply feel attacked when they see how the rest of us think of them, and rush to defend Bruce. To defend their own views by proxy. In Germany we have the phrase "Getroffene Hunde bellen": Dogs that got hit bark.
 
Ok lets look at your strawman trump supporter. Lets say hes a racist and dislikes mexicans for the sake of argument.
Rob77 said:
Lets say he has his own business. Now i will accredit you with one scenario where he may chose to employ mexicans at a slave rate to exploit cheap labour. That is a situation where the strawman racist would chuckle and exploit people he didnt like. You could argue that is akin to slavery in a modern sense.

But a racist with a business where he could hire non foreigners for the same rate as foreigners? Why would they if it insulted their racist sensibilities so much? Again maybe if there was a much cheaper non union rate perhaps? Again they might be pleased to exploit people they hated but choosing to pay them full whack?

The trump supporter is then to say the least confused. If a racist doesnt like being around foreigners but then choses to be around foreigners that is an odd way to behave.

And you think you have won the argument? Ok.....
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And finally, to illustrate this simple point: H. P. Lovecraft.

The man is known for having been a massive xenophobe. He was a raging antisemite among other things.
Yet, despite that, he married a Jewish lady. Once again: No one says Bruce is a xenophobe, but saying "he worked with foreigners" is simply a weak defense that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
 
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Vaenyr said:
My Trump supporter example isn't a strawman. It's something that's happening all the time. Everywhere on the world. Racists work with foreign people all the time. Furthermore, one person being racist doesn't mean they are equally racist to every single ethnicity or race out there.

Racists and bigots are not know for being particularly intellectually gifted, educated or coherent in their worldviews. That's why me, and others here, have directly responded to you and mentioned the good old "you're one of the good ones" or the "I have a black friend" argument. Just because they tolerate or are friends with one individual, doesn't mean that they don't hold racist beliefs about the collective.

And because you keep ignoring factual information: Steve Harris has made racist remarks against people of colour in an interview that was printed. Yet we also know that he's worked with people of mixed heritage and so on. By your logic this shouldn't be possible.

Racism and bigotry most often stem from ignorance and fear of the unknown. Read up on Daryl Davis:
en.wikipedia.org

Daryl Davis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

He actively befriended members of the KKK and managed to tear them away from their white supremacist views.

You also need to read up on cognitive dissonance in racists, which is by no means a new topic:
Click to expand...

But the strawman you have used to try and justify your argument having one token mexican acquaintance is not remotely comparable to bruces situation. The racist who chooses to surround himself exclusively with people he hates despite having the option of employing people at the same rate of the same ethnicity is a very different scenario and one which you havent managed to address very sucessfully.

Someone of your intellectual sophistication and insight should surely manage to sweep away my feeble attempts to compete with you without breaking sweat?

Oh and congrats on the virtue signalling as well. I can agree with you that bigotry of any description is a perverse and repellent form of view to take. We can concur on that topic at least.
 
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