Recession got you down?

Forostar

Ancient Mariner
IronDuke said:
I remember being shocked as hell when I found out places like Germany and Sweden had conscription. I'm actually in favour of mandatory national service of some kind for Canada (ie the first year after you leave school is spent in the army (but not overseas) or some sort of civilian charity corps)

LooseCannon and I have discussedthis at length - not a bad idea at all. It might give kids some structure and focus they were otherwise lacking, as well as an assured job for their first year of "real life"
Have you missed it?
 

IronDuke

Ancient Mariner
Perun said:
Because some people can't get their arses up themselves. I know that from observance. I know people who didn't do military or civilian service and didn't do anything for ten years. I know that some sort of mandatory service would have helped them, however.
I for one am very happy to have done a civilian service.

Just out of curiosity, Per, what was the nature of the service you did? I know it required you to move to a different city within Germany, but what did you actually do?
 

______no5

The Angel Of The Odd
Perun said:
I know people who didn't do military or civilian service and didn't do anything for ten years. I know that some sort of mandatory service would have helped them, however.
Yet the mandatory service needs to be in your home town, so you won't be oblige to pay a rent for that
-so it's again a subject to each state how clever or stupid has its laws established.

As of military service, from my experience I've only seen people getting worse ;
The 'living' people become lazy -and it takes them a mean time of 6 months to get back in fit.
The lazy people become more lazy, and it takes them even more to get in their previous situation.

In the mandatory army, the less you do, the biggest value you have, and sleeping is the biggest of things.
No matter what you did to avoid work, you are respectful if you pass your time sleeping and doing nothing.
And sooner or later, no matter how strong one can be, he follows this mode.
Let alone these ridiculous clothes, and all these ridiculous things you're obliged to do.
But the worst things is, when you realise that in a case of war,
you'll have to obey the most stupid & incompetent people you've ever met, even loose your life under their orders.
 

Perun

Academic
Staff member
In answer to Duke,

Quetzalcoatlus said:
Yet the mandatory service needs to be in your home town, so you won't be oblige to pay a rent for that
No. I moved to the other side of Germany and got (barely) enough money to cover my living expenses from the state.

I did a voluntary ecological year for my civil service, meaning I got less money than others, but that was my choice. And I didn't have to move to the other side of Germany, that was my choice too.
 

Perun

Academic
Staff member
I had to do a civil service or military service. That was mandatory. The rest was my choice.
 

Invader

Ancient Mariner
Quetzalcoatlus said:
I'm 100% against mandatory service -if you want to get into real life, find a job.
Why to be obliged to do it ?
Because not all countries have the choice.  If Finland, a country of 5 million people, would use a voluntary military system, the army might as well not exist.  And when you share 1,300 kilometers of border with Russia, which has historically liked to dominate its neighours to a great extent, that is not really an option.  While I don't believe there is any threat from Russia nowadays (then again, look at Georgia...), there's no telling what it will be like in 20 or 50 years' time.

I also think, like Perun, that for some people, getting their arses away from their computers and TVs would do a lot of good.  In any case, in Finland it's only a case of 6-12 months, with no fatality risks as conscripts are not sent to places like Afghanistan (those are all volunteers).  I'm starting my service in July, and though I don't like how it interferes with my life (just starting university then), I acknowledge that I can't just take from society; there are some things I have to give back.  And if you are a pacifist or really do not want to be ordered around and can't take military discipline, then you can do the civil service, which is in many ways a lot more attractive an option.  

In the mandatory army, the less you do, the biggest value you have, and sleeping is the biggest of things.
No matter what you did to avoid work, you are respectful if you pass your time sleeping and doing nothing.
And sooner or later, no matter how strong one can be, he follows this mode.
I don't know where you get that image from, but at least here, doing the army definitely isn't sleeping all day...  You get up at six, every single day, and the whole day is filled with training.
 

Forostar

Ancient Mariner
Alright. But can we easily judge situations of other people and say "Mandatory service would be good for them", without judging ourselves first?

Perun just did (though I wonder how it influenced/changed him), but I'd like to know if LC and Duke would like to experience it. Do they see themselves in such a role? Will they still play computer games after that?

I for one, I am glad I didn't have to but, to be honest, I am a bit curious about what I have missed.
 

______no5

The Angel Of The Odd
Perun said:
No. I moved to the other side of Germany and got (barely) enough money to cover my living expenses from the state.
Unfortunately, the most of the counties are not Germany : You've sent away, you pay your rent with the help of your
parents, plus you do 1 year more than if you had done the army (where you are sent away as well)

[hr][/hr]
Invader said:
I don't know where you get that image from, but at least here, doing the army definitely isn't sleeping all day...  You get up at six, every single day, and the whole day is filled with training.
1) how many months is the service ?
2) the state pays you enough for living ?
3) did you do it, or it's just stories you've been told ?
4) they do it during all their service or just in the beginning ?
 

IronDuke

Ancient Mariner
Forostar said:
Alright. But can we easily judge situations of other people and say "Mandatory service would be good for them", without judging ourselves first?

Perun just did (though I wonder how it influenced/changed him), but I'd like to know if LC and Duke would like to experience it. Do they see themselves in such a role? Will they still play computer games after that?

I for one, I am glad I didn't have to but, to be honest, I am a bit curious about what I have missed.
I'm a member of the Naval Reserve. I work with the Cadets in my town (Cadets is a national program for kids aged 12-18 that teaches physical fitness, citizenship, and environmental stewardship. It's funded by the Department of National Defence, and run by reserve officers.)

It's the highest capacity in which I am allowed to serve, due to medical reasons. I tried to join the regular "full time" navy when I was 18, but was declared medically unfit due to being deaf (I have about 35-40% of the hearing ability that the average person has)
 

IronDuke

Ancient Mariner
Quetzalcoatlus said:
Sorry Per, I'm full of love /hate for my country, and I'm trying not to think /discuss too much about it.
You're confusing the hell outta me.

Your name is obviously based on Aztec myth - meaning you may be form Mexico.
Your avatar pic is a maple leaf, indicating Canada.
Your little caption mentions Kansas.

Are you the bastard love child of NAFTA?
 

Invader

Ancient Mariner
Quetzalcoatlus said:
1) how many months is the service ?
2) the state pays you enough for living ?
3) did you do it, or it's just stories you've been told ?
4) they do it during all their service or just in the beginning ?
1) 6-12, like I said.
2) You live at a military garrison, you don't have to pay for anything (though you also get paid almost nothing, literally).  If you have a house, loans, etc, then it sucks because you can't work while in the army.  But most people do it right after high school before moving away from their parents, so they suffer no costs during their service.
3) I'm doing it this july, again as I said, and my knowledge is based on accounts from different people (e.g. cousins, my father and step-father) as well as official army publications.  Waking up at six is definitely not a myth, if that's what you mean.
4) This I'm not sure of.  I would guess that not during officer training, which forms the last 3 or 6 months of your service if you are assigned for it.
 

______no5

The Angel Of The Odd
No, waking up at 6 you can avoid, it wouldn't be an army !
But you can always find ways not to do your duty and to go to sleep afterwards.  :)

You'll see... I hope you'll be still here during your service. I would be very interesting to see how you'll go thought it.
I'm sure it's different from country to country, but some essential elements are the same :
Mandatory. No money. Far from home.
Sooner or later, during your service, you will 'react' inside you : And sleep shall be thy king  :D


In any case, it's better to be optimist for something you didn't see yet, so you do good to think like this.
I'll be happy to communicate with you that period -it can be an interesting exchange.
 

LooseCannon

Yorktown-class aircraft carrier
Staff member
IronDuke said:
It's the highest capacity in which I am allowed to serve, due to medical reasons. I tried to join the regular "full time" navy when I was 18, but was declared medically unfit due to being deaf (I have about 35-40% of the hearing ability that the average person has)
You're also blind.  And damned ugly.

To answer Foro's question; I have not (yet) joined the military.  But it has crossed my mind more and more as I grow older.  My father has been in the navy for 31 years and I think that is one of the biggest reasons why I have not joined.  I love my dad, and want to be exactly like him, but I also don't want to be known as "Stoney's Kid".
 
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