Random History Thread
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Nyx
Rebel Girl Royalty
Cool! Then you may find this interesting. If not, no hard feelings. lol
I'm half Japanese as some of you may have guessed, and technically a descendant of a noted retainer family of the Aizu during the Bakumatsu. My father and family on his side have always been very proud of it, and I was passed many traditions, stories and legends, and some skills thoughout my childhood (whether i wanted them or not, lol) I definitely heard some pretty great stories growing up from my grandparents and great uncles and aunts. And I'd be happy to share if anyone is interested.
I'm half Japanese as some of you may have guessed, and technically a descendant of a noted retainer family of the Aizu during the Bakumatsu. My father and family on his side have always been very proud of it, and I was passed many traditions, stories and legends, and some skills thoughout my childhood (whether i wanted them or not, lol) I definitely heard some pretty great stories growing up from my grandparents and great uncles and aunts. And I'd be happy to share if anyone is interested.
Nyx
Rebel Girl Royalty
Ok, well, maybe we need a topic change or continuation on topic. I certainly wasn't intending anyone to feel uncomfortable here. So, I'll just vomit a wall of text I've been putting together. 
@Perun @LooseCannon Here's a few things I find pretty cool, and maybe you will too. I did some checking with my relatives.
As I mentioned, I have Aizu predecessors who were recognized as having fought honorably in the Bakumatsu on the side of the Shogunate. And with note in the Battle of Aizu, the siege of Tsurugajo Castle in Aizu-wakamatsu, and the establishment and defense of the Ezo Republic.
We have 2 major heirlooms. One is a tanto (dagger) that was said to have been given to my great great great (cant remember how many 'greats') grandfather by one of the Matsudaira clan under Nobunori (we think one of his brothers) for his loyalty and service to the clan. It was a personal item, and bears the crest and decorative aspects of the Aizu and Matsudaira clan. He was one of the lucky ones that survived, and lived on into the Meiji.
Apparently we had 11 family members that left Yokohama with the Bakufu and French renegades for Ezo after Tsurugajo fell. We don't know if they were on the same ships as the military, or if they travelled discreetly by land or other vessels for the main part of the journey. As they were direct family of a dedicated military officer though, its plausible they travelled with them or in fake fishing boats since preservation of clans and remaining family members was a priority and worry for all the soldiers at this point in time. And that officer with them was said grandfather of many 'greats'. He held a rank similar to an English army captain.
Though there would be an amnesty publicly declared, many families and retainers known to be loyal to the Shogun were being executed at this time, and serveral of my ancestors are believed to have awaited this fate had they not joined the expedition. The Imperial Army as a whole during the Bakumatsu wasnt exactly known for its decency by the civil population. Fortunately, things began to cool off after this with the Imperial Army having seized all of mainland Japan. Laws of conduct were reinstituted and more enforced. And even though the Ezo Republic fell in the same year it was created, the newly established Meiji Imperial government practiced its amnesty this time. And my clan, and many others, were spared a grim fate. Many of them still reside in what is now Hokkaido, and some went south after the Boshin War to settle in Osaka as well. A few returned to Aizu-wakamatsu.
Anyways, this said grandfather (sorry, but I'm not revealling one of my family names online) living through all this is half the reason I'm here today
He became a martial arts instructor after the war, and married and had four kids. (Half, as my mother is English, Polish and Czech)
The second heirloom is an old French Minie' 1853 Enfield rifled musket that was said to have been used by said grandfather's brother during the siege of Tsurugajo. He died in the battle, and family legend goes that to aid a wounded friend, he took over his position and fell 10 enemy warriors with the rifle before falling himself from Imperial rifle and cannon fire. The rifle has dents in the wood and a few small burns. I got goosebumps the first time I heard this story and saw this.
We're a bit lucky in some ways, as my great grandparents generation were the first to move to Europe. Were not sure what month, but it was in late 1936 around the time the Imperial Japanese government were gearing up to be arseholes in what would become WWII. Thank god with hindsight, they immigrated to a rural area of Switzerland, and therefore avoided most of the war. Though areas near them were bombed by the Allies a couple of times which gave them quite the fright.
There were actually many Japanese that fled around this time to avoid mandatory recuritment and service. If your family was called, the males over the age of 14 were basically being called to die. It was just a question if you wanted it to happen on a battlefield or not. They saw which way the wind was blowing, and didn't like it, so they left while they could. (We're still pretty anti-imperialist I guess. I was certainly taught that way) So, they were thankfully able to avoid the aftermath when the Americans pillaged everyone's personal property and valuables.
While immigrating, the tanto was easy to hide, but theres an interesting story and family legend on how my ancestors got this rifle out of Japan as that was quite a bit more difficult.
We have some other small relics from the time, but I wouldn't call them direct heirlooms just because we can't historically verify the origins or find convincing evidence. Still, I always believed my family's passed down history. Much of it is done that way, especially with the women as they were rarely properly documented, and especially in combat. There were a great number of brave women from the time who died in battle and fought, to protect their family and homes as the Imperial Army gained ground. And in conventional battles as independent units of their own volition, not just the few who often recieve all the credit.
It's cool to note that the Aizu under the Matsudaira clan, and later Ezo Republic were incredibly progressive for the time they existed, and had better laws and social customs regarding women than Japan as a whole had seen for hundreds of years. I wouldn't call it 'woke' at all by any modern standards, but for its day, and what Japan had been like for quite a while, it was really special.
Edit: I finally heard back from my uncle, the caretaker of the rifle and I got the model wrong. Corrected I'm not very knowledgable with firearms, apologies.
@Perun @LooseCannon Here's a few things I find pretty cool, and maybe you will too. I did some checking with my relatives.
As I mentioned, I have Aizu predecessors who were recognized as having fought honorably in the Bakumatsu on the side of the Shogunate. And with note in the Battle of Aizu, the siege of Tsurugajo Castle in Aizu-wakamatsu, and the establishment and defense of the Ezo Republic.
We have 2 major heirlooms. One is a tanto (dagger) that was said to have been given to my great great great (cant remember how many 'greats') grandfather by one of the Matsudaira clan under Nobunori (we think one of his brothers) for his loyalty and service to the clan. It was a personal item, and bears the crest and decorative aspects of the Aizu and Matsudaira clan. He was one of the lucky ones that survived, and lived on into the Meiji.
Apparently we had 11 family members that left Yokohama with the Bakufu and French renegades for Ezo after Tsurugajo fell. We don't know if they were on the same ships as the military, or if they travelled discreetly by land or other vessels for the main part of the journey. As they were direct family of a dedicated military officer though, its plausible they travelled with them or in fake fishing boats since preservation of clans and remaining family members was a priority and worry for all the soldiers at this point in time. And that officer with them was said grandfather of many 'greats'. He held a rank similar to an English army captain.
Though there would be an amnesty publicly declared, many families and retainers known to be loyal to the Shogun were being executed at this time, and serveral of my ancestors are believed to have awaited this fate had they not joined the expedition. The Imperial Army as a whole during the Bakumatsu wasnt exactly known for its decency by the civil population. Fortunately, things began to cool off after this with the Imperial Army having seized all of mainland Japan. Laws of conduct were reinstituted and more enforced. And even though the Ezo Republic fell in the same year it was created, the newly established Meiji Imperial government practiced its amnesty this time. And my clan, and many others, were spared a grim fate. Many of them still reside in what is now Hokkaido, and some went south after the Boshin War to settle in Osaka as well. A few returned to Aizu-wakamatsu.
Anyways, this said grandfather (sorry, but I'm not revealling one of my family names online) living through all this is half the reason I'm here today
He became a martial arts instructor after the war, and married and had four kids. (Half, as my mother is English, Polish and Czech)The second heirloom is an old French Minie' 1853 Enfield rifled musket that was said to have been used by said grandfather's brother during the siege of Tsurugajo. He died in the battle, and family legend goes that to aid a wounded friend, he took over his position and fell 10 enemy warriors with the rifle before falling himself from Imperial rifle and cannon fire. The rifle has dents in the wood and a few small burns. I got goosebumps the first time I heard this story and saw this.
We're a bit lucky in some ways, as my great grandparents generation were the first to move to Europe. Were not sure what month, but it was in late 1936 around the time the Imperial Japanese government were gearing up to be arseholes in what would become WWII. Thank god with hindsight, they immigrated to a rural area of Switzerland, and therefore avoided most of the war. Though areas near them were bombed by the Allies a couple of times which gave them quite the fright.
There were actually many Japanese that fled around this time to avoid mandatory recuritment and service. If your family was called, the males over the age of 14 were basically being called to die. It was just a question if you wanted it to happen on a battlefield or not. They saw which way the wind was blowing, and didn't like it, so they left while they could. (We're still pretty anti-imperialist I guess. I was certainly taught that way) So, they were thankfully able to avoid the aftermath when the Americans pillaged everyone's personal property and valuables.
While immigrating, the tanto was easy to hide, but theres an interesting story and family legend on how my ancestors got this rifle out of Japan as that was quite a bit more difficult.
We have some other small relics from the time, but I wouldn't call them direct heirlooms just because we can't historically verify the origins or find convincing evidence. Still, I always believed my family's passed down history. Much of it is done that way, especially with the women as they were rarely properly documented, and especially in combat. There were a great number of brave women from the time who died in battle and fought, to protect their family and homes as the Imperial Army gained ground. And in conventional battles as independent units of their own volition, not just the few who often recieve all the credit.
It's cool to note that the Aizu under the Matsudaira clan, and later Ezo Republic were incredibly progressive for the time they existed, and had better laws and social customs regarding women than Japan as a whole had seen for hundreds of years. I wouldn't call it 'woke' at all by any modern standards, but for its day, and what Japan had been like for quite a while, it was really special.
Edit: I finally heard back from my uncle, the caretaker of the rifle and I got the model wrong. Corrected
I'm not very knowledgable with firearms, apologies.
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Really interesting stuff. Family history is so interesting - and the Ezo Republic is a very neat period of Japanese history, and one not a lot of people know about. Awesome that you have links to such things!
Nyx
Rebel Girl Royalty
I have met literally four people who were not Japanese in my entire life that even know what the Ezo Republic is, let alone that it even existed.
Thanks! I was a little skeptical about sharing such personal stuff, but maybe it will help some people understand me and Japanese people a little better. And encourage others to be more open too.
Im willing to bet that many of our members here have interesting history too from all the vibrant nationalities out there. I'd love to hear some!
And I'll feel a bit less embarassed about being so open. lol
I think its important to keep in mind of course that different wars and histories do not represent a people as a whole. And we should just celebrate each others heritage and the cool things about them together. I, for one, will not pass any judgment or discrimination on anyone for their lineage or country of origin. (Even if you're also Japanese, and come from a family of Imperialists.
)
I mean, most of the family stories we have aren't verifiable, or I haven't done the work to verify it. I have spent some time tracking down family members in the First World War, and we know of some cousins and such - but many records were lost.
Nyx
Rebel Girl Royalty
That's always a shame when things are lost to history...I hope you can recover and find more out about them!
Despite our troubles during the Bakumatsu, we were lucky in that the Aizu are still a preserved and protected heritage institution now in Japan. I think its what the rest of the world would call a "national treasure"
To cheer you up, here's some of my drummer ancestors at work
(or the modern equivalent at least doing traditional style during the Aizu Matsuri (The Japanese traditional festival of Aizu) Members of many Shogunate (Loyalist) forces participate in this festival every year, and here, there are descendants from many clans of what was known in English as the Northern Alliance.
Nyx
Rebel Girl Royalty
What? Dude, is it just the typical tourist stuff they sell?
It has to be. Traditional katana were usually considered the soul of the samurai, and for one to be given to a foreigner is pretty much unthinkable, especially in those times. Even today many traditional swordsmiths won't often sell outside the country. It has happened where one has been gifted, but its extraordinarily rare. If somehow it is a real one, than this preacher was some hero, saved some kids lives, or something pretty dramatic and you should definitely check that shit out.
AND if it is a real one, I am highly offended and demand you remove that thing ASAP, dust it off, cover it up for preservation, and get a proper stand
(they dont cost much and are typically made of wood) You can also buy traditional cloth covers online, which I highly recommend. If it is a real katana of traditional forge, there is a few clear ways to tell, but you dont have the kit I'm guessing for upkeep, or to safely remove the mekugi and full tsuka without damaging the item. Most "makers marks" or the mei are inscribed on the nakago (tang) under the tsuba (handguard) If I had a look at it I could tell you quite a bit.
Its uncommon even today, and considered serious taboo in traditional families to take pictures of heirlooms, so I'm hesitant to ask for one just in case it is.
Nyx
Rebel Girl Royalty
@Perun By the way, I'm not mad at you or anything, and hope I didn't offend you. You know I'm a strong speaker in general. I put a tonguey emote to show a little lightheartedness so I hope you didnt take it the wrong way either. It's my first instinct with things like this because of how I was taught. But given the time period you mentioned, you genuinely have me curious. Depending on the dates, the more mass produced ones for foreigners didnt really show up until after the Bakumatsu. So depending on when your relative was there, that could tell us something. Germany is a pretty cool country, I wonder if you have anyone near you from the Japanese community whos had instruction that might be able to have a look. It could have been a Shogunate production, but one of the common foot soldier katana towards the later Boshin War. (There were many left over. Most, however were confiscated by the government) Either way, I think you should check it out. Itd be a shame for it to stay like that whatever it is. Even if its a gaijin blade, it might still have some historical value if its from that time period.
In my case, the war records were declared destroyed by the national archive due to rot. So it doesn't feel like that avenue will be something that can be pursued. Other records exist but are much harder to find - things like regimental archives and local recruitment copies - and they are sketchy.
Nyx
Rebel Girl Royalty
Thats really unfortunate, mate. I'm genuinely sorry to hear that.
Nyx
Rebel Girl Royalty
That's good to hear, mate! If you feel like it, by all means share some here too.
Nyx
Rebel Girl Royalty
For anyone curious, me and Perun are working together to see more about his sword If and when he likes, he can update here.
Its not a historical relic, but I thought I'd share something anyway.
As a child, I had to start learning traditional Japanese "womanhood" from around the age of five from my aunt. (Posture, sitting, walking, traditional clothing, etiquette, dance, cultural etc) Honestly I hated it. lol At first, but then it began to make me feel connected to my roots, and a bit empowered over time, which is my first real memories of it. I really grew to love our sessions and meetings. Over time she taught me many cool things, and she actually empowered me quite a bit and shaped some of my strong ideals as a woman today.
When I turned 20, we had a special celebration which is still regularly practiced in Japan today as national holiday for people of this age. I was gifted a full form traditional kimono that belonged to my grandmother. It's black and orange with some pink, with a sakura motif, and I §$%&ing adore it. Thankfully she was a bit taller for a girl too. And to pair, my aunt gave me a modern style long kaiken much to my surprise (its a dagger, that was given to young women during the feudal days as a means of self-defense, and suicide to prevent rape and dishonor) She decided it would be a symbol of "graduation" in my traditional learning as a worthy descendant of my ancestors.
My aunt later told me that she would have loved to give me one of these as an heirloom that was an original family piece, but none from my family survived the Bakumatsu to our knowledge. I didn't care then and I still don't, I treasure it. And I was so happy she could tell how much it means to me. And despite being modern and publicly produced, its a pretty reliable self-defense weapon. Its full tang and 600 fold, and I was, of course, trained in its usage.
In coming of age day the following kimono are often adorned with faux fox fur wraps around the shoulders and clavicle, but many girls take them off after the main part of the day (they can get quite warm)
If and when he likes, he can update here.Its not a historical relic, but I thought I'd share something anyway.
As a child, I had to start learning traditional Japanese "womanhood" from around the age of five from my aunt. (Posture, sitting, walking, traditional clothing, etiquette, dance, cultural etc) Honestly I hated it. lol At first, but then it began to make me feel connected to my roots, and a bit empowered over time, which is my first real memories of it. I really grew to love our sessions and meetings. Over time she taught me many cool things, and she actually empowered me quite a bit and shaped some of my strong ideals as a woman today.
When I turned 20, we had a special celebration which is still regularly practiced in Japan today as national holiday for people of this age. I was gifted a full form traditional kimono that belonged to my grandmother. It's black and orange with some pink, with a sakura motif, and I §$%&ing adore it. Thankfully she was a bit taller for a girl too. And to pair, my aunt gave me a modern style long kaiken much to my surprise (its a dagger, that was given to young women during the feudal days as a means of self-defense, and suicide to prevent rape and dishonor) She decided it would be a symbol of "graduation" in my traditional learning as a worthy descendant of my ancestors.
My aunt later told me that she would have loved to give me one of these as an heirloom that was an original family piece, but none from my family survived the Bakumatsu to our knowledge. I didn't care then and I still don't, I treasure it. And I was so happy she could tell how much it means to me. And despite being modern and publicly produced, its a pretty reliable self-defense weapon. Its full tang and 600 fold, and I was, of course, trained in its usage.
In coming of age day the following kimono are often adorned with faux fox fur wraps around the shoulders and clavicle, but many girls take them off after the main part of the day (they can get quite warm)
So two years ago I passed my ancient Greek exam and today I used that knowledge to try and win an online argument over whether Caracalla was going number one or two when he got stabbed by reading the original source.
And in true, perfect philological fashion the answer was "the actual verb can be either, context suggests he was peeing."
And in true, perfect philological fashion the answer was "the actual verb can be either, context suggests he was peeing."
____no5
Free Man
The 10 Greatest Generals of all time:
1. Napoleon Bonaparte
2. Julius Caesar
3. Arthur Wellesley, 1st Duke of Wellington
4. Takeda Shingen
5. Khalid Ibn al-Walid
6. Hannibal Barca
7. Ulysses S. Grant
8. Frederick the Great
9. Georgy Zhukov
10. Alexander the Great
www.businessinsider.com
1. Napoleon Bonaparte
2. Julius Caesar
3. Arthur Wellesley, 1st Duke of Wellington
4. Takeda Shingen
5. Khalid Ibn al-Walid
6. Hannibal Barca
7. Ulysses S. Grant
8. Frederick the Great
9. Georgy Zhukov
10. Alexander the Great
These are the 10 best generals of all time, according to math
Someone took baseball sabermetrics and applied them to military history. Here are the commanders who should be at the top of your draft.
www.businessinsider.com
No Subotai on that list = fraud.