JudasMyGuide
Ancient Mariner
Since the discussion's been moved here in general, I'll also reply to Jazz here, though I realise it's getting off topic enough as is, but as I see no "Religion" thread apart from "The Pope is dope" or whatever and am afraid to open one...
Obviously.
Let's just say that the choice of the nick has been done based on various factors:
- most important of all, it's meant to be a bit tongue-in-cheek. I can only hardly imagine someone actually "following" Judas, apart from some of the Gnostics, possibly. Even Andrew Lloyd Webber has made him a bit more humane and sympathetic at best and not a moral paramount.
- despite being Catholic myself (and in some of my moments, I tend to be almost passionately devout), I might not always be that typical in that regard. Anyway, since the nick is obviously a nod to the song (Judas Be My Guide, that is), I feel actually moved by the lyrics in question and I agree. In everyday life, the "Judas" whispers to me sweetly and convincingly, trying to make me throw away my resolutions and hopes, trying to entrap me in the cage of the "modern world", the consumerism, the differing ideas and relativism, tries to support me in my laziness, in my pride, and I listen and follow him gladly, only to stop when it's already late, realise my mistake, repent, make amends, start trying afresh etc. But yes, the Judas from the song is often my guide. And I hope that since I at least realise that, He will be merciful when my last day and my final judgement comes.
- as probably has been apparent from my short time here on the forum (a little over three years), I do not shy away from some very controversal opinions in general, "as if I had been led astray or trying to lead others astray myself so the proverbial traitor might actually be my guide". Of course, from time to time I actually do assume the role of advocatus diaboli with glee, trying to defend different opinions just for the heck of it, since every idea should have its day in a debate, IMHO, but much more often it's actually genuine - I dearly love/hate something (usually love) and then I find out I'm completely alone in that regard. Heck, even my religious beliefs might be deemed controversial on a predominantly metal-oriented forum (believe me, I know what I'm talking about. It ain't always easy being a Christian and a metalhead, since both sides tend to give you a bit of a hard time from time to time)
- even better explanation: I really, really like the song and I believe it to be a forgotten gem off a generally underrated album I tend to like quite a bit. So I put it into my nick.
I'm totally convinced Neal Morse is being a very good Christian and he does not condemn anybody for having anything (just like me). If anything, I will give him the benefit of the doubt (BTW - you can condemn certain behaviour of a person that goes against your conscience (or consciousness, as Dream Theater would say
), but you are actually required despite that to love everyone unconditionally - you won't be able to, humans being... well, humans, but you should try as best as you can. "Hate the sin, love the sinner" they say).
Yes, creationism probably is a form of fundamentalism, although I would argue here it's pretty harmless as far as fundamentalism goes. If someone chooses to believe Earth is really 6.000 years old, well, that's his fight, but I don't see any harm in that, apart from the person getting weird looks all around (especially if the person otherwise agrees with science where he feels it does not go against the Bible). Even "fundies" might be very nice people, actually, though I won't blame you for thinking otherwise. Yes, there are those foam-mouthed insane bigoted haters who hate everything - Darwin, WASPs, metal, gays, gun legislation, Catholics, women, anyone who does not spit at any of these..., but as I've stated time and again, these people are not what Christians are supposed to be. Really, really not.
This is actually more of a sore spot for me as a Catholic, since this kind of fundamentalism (and literal understanding of Bible) is actually (and I'm talking purely about my mere feelings here) disrespectful to the Bible. But again, that's something to be vexed vigorously and I don't really want to go there. Also, the alt-right and the nutty, Bible-thumping fundies of USA are actually giving a bad name to Christians in general and I'm not fine with that. If I was born in the US, it's possible I might have been an atheist until the day I die. Now I won't deny that Catholics have their own problems and we are not all that scholastic types who'd be the perfect disciples of Aquinas and Augustine, but still...
However, if we want to look at it that way, pretty much every religious conviction (or lack thereof, as with atheism) is "right" and thinks of others they are "wrong". Same with politics. My political standings are "right" and yours are "wrong". Otherwise there's, like, no reason to do it
And believe me, I've had a lot of disputes with my mother, who's a very agressive atheist and we stand on completely different sides politically. Each of us thinks he's right.
When I said intelligent, I was talking specifically about the "third way" - people not convinced by the scientific arguments presented so far, yet not believing in that "seven days" theory. I mean - don't get me wrong, I'm totally pro-evolution, just trying to defend some other people who don't deserve complete condemnation (wink wink ) - all history is merely what we agree it to be. We have numerous dark spots in history, we constantly keep rewriting it (So what did Alexander the Gread died of? How many deaths did Stalin cause exactly? How many Troys have been there and how many times has the city been destroyed/sacked? Were the statues in ancient Greece and Rome painted or not and if, has it been so for all of them/most of them? Where did Spartacus die and what happened to his body? Did dinosaurs have feathers? etc.) and it gets worse the further we go. From what I understand, even the big bang theory has been initially spat upon, because it reminded people too much of the ex-nihilo like the Bible says (the fact it's been first proposed by a Christian didn't help). So it's always up to the person in question and his conclusions, even if there is evidence. That's the main problem with conspiracy theorists, by the way - once they choose to believe there is a conspiracy, there is no way to convince them otherwise, because most people will choose (and we usually go into arguments already prepared). 12 Angry Men is a wonderful movie, but it's just that - a movie.
By the way, since we talk about creationism as a whole, just recently I found out more about that Scopes/Monkey/Inherit the Wind trial and I was in for a very big surprise (for example, the trial being a pro forma show trial in order to generate controversy and to revitalise a region that's been slowly dying and no-one really wanted to breach the law nor uphold it, but I digress again). The movie portrays it very differently.
Yep, we tend to give Him credit for our accomplishments while our failings are only ours (however unfair it might seem). Some do it more explicitly than others and Neal's humbleness is actually pretty nice. If anything, it stops him from having that "oh, look at me, I'm a maestro, (*cough *cough Miles Davis *cough *cough Robert Fripp *cough)
But sorry for the enormous digression, now back at Neal:
This is very much true. Actually, I always saw Spock's Beard as the next best thing to Genesis. Not only the sound is very similar (well, to them and to Gentle Giant, I guess) and they all do these little-songs-inside-longer-structures epics, but also with the Gabriel/Morse comparison. Both were definitely "men with a plan", that is, they definitely had a very strong idea where to go, both were very spiritual, quirky, roleplaying (whether it's "a flower" or Senor Velasco), even slightly similar vocally who left the band because they feard fame, after a heavy-on-the-brain double album that was mostly their lyrical child and left the band slightly clueless with the drummer taking on the vocal duties - have I made a mistake here?
It is way too direct. But that's his shtick - take it or leave it be. Now 1. I agree with him a lot, 2. even if I didn't, I guess I'd appreciate him being so openly.. ."himself", so I probably wouldn't mind anyway, but if being explicit about this stuff bothers you, you should stay away. It's cool you care about music primarily, because then you have no problem with that.
Same here. He's such a Teddy bear it would really shock me. But it might happen.
You're absolutely right about this, though it still smells of Morse through and through. But yes, this "band experiment" is probably supposed to be just like that, a regular prog group. Small wonder, really, he has tried a lot since he went solo (pop, rock, something rather folkish, Christian prog, doing covers, worship/gospel albums etc.) and I guess he's not afraid of the band experience anymore. Especially with Gillette and Portnoy involved, this cannot go wrong
That's a very good pick here - the solo's awesome and the buildup is something to behold - as if lately Neal has been the person truly continuing the Dream Theater legacy (in fact, that part around 3:10 reminds me definitely of a DT song - someone refresh my memory!)
Definitely try out Similitude - I really belive that bloke naming it the album of the year wasn't exaggerating... or at least not much. Judging from the reception and various reactions over the net, it might actually be his biggest hit and his overall best-received work since Beard, or Testimony at least.
In fact, feel free to ignore this post as a whole. 
Obviously.
Let's just say that the choice of the nick has been done based on various factors:- most important of all, it's meant to be a bit tongue-in-cheek. I can only hardly imagine someone actually "following" Judas, apart from some of the Gnostics, possibly. Even Andrew Lloyd Webber has made him a bit more humane and sympathetic at best and not a moral paramount.
- despite being Catholic myself (and in some of my moments, I tend to be almost passionately devout), I might not always be that typical in that regard. Anyway, since the nick is obviously a nod to the song (Judas Be My Guide, that is), I feel actually moved by the lyrics in question and I agree. In everyday life, the "Judas" whispers to me sweetly and convincingly, trying to make me throw away my resolutions and hopes, trying to entrap me in the cage of the "modern world", the consumerism, the differing ideas and relativism, tries to support me in my laziness, in my pride, and I listen and follow him gladly, only to stop when it's already late, realise my mistake, repent, make amends, start trying afresh etc. But yes, the Judas from the song is often my guide. And I hope that since I at least realise that, He will be merciful when my last day and my final judgement comes.
- as probably has been apparent from my short time here on the forum (a little over three years), I do not shy away from some very controversal opinions in general, "as if I had been led astray or trying to lead others astray myself so the proverbial traitor might actually be my guide"
. Of course, from time to time I actually do assume the role of advocatus diaboli with glee, trying to defend different opinions just for the heck of it, since every idea should have its day in a debate, IMHO, but much more often it's actually genuine - I dearly love/hate something (usually love) and then I find out I'm completely alone in that regard. Heck, even my religious beliefs might be deemed controversial on a predominantly metal-oriented forum (believe me, I know what I'm talking about. It ain't always easy being a Christian and a metalhead, since both sides tend to give you a bit of a hard time from time to time)- even better explanation: I really, really like the song and I believe it to be a forgotten gem off a generally underrated album I tend to like quite a bit. So I put it into my nick.
I'm totally convinced Neal Morse is being a very good Christian and he does not condemn anybody for having anything (just like me). If anything, I will give him the benefit of the doubt (BTW - you can condemn certain behaviour of a person that goes against your conscience (or consciousness, as Dream Theater would say
), but you are actually required despite that to love everyone unconditionally - you won't be able to, humans being... well, humans, but you should try as best as you can. "Hate the sin, love the sinner" they say).Yes, creationism probably is a form of fundamentalism, although I would argue here it's pretty harmless as far as fundamentalism goes. If someone chooses to believe Earth is really 6.000 years old, well, that's his fight, but I don't see any harm in that, apart from the person getting weird looks all around (especially if the person otherwise agrees with science where he feels it does not go against the Bible). Even "fundies" might be very nice people, actually, though I won't blame you for thinking otherwise. Yes, there are those foam-mouthed insane bigoted haters who hate everything - Darwin, WASPs, metal, gays, gun legislation, Catholics, women, anyone who does not spit at any of these..., but as I've stated time and again, these people are not what Christians are supposed to be. Really, really not.
This is actually more of a sore spot for me as a Catholic, since this kind of fundamentalism (and literal understanding of Bible) is actually (and I'm talking purely about my mere feelings here) disrespectful to the Bible. But again, that's something to be vexed vigorously and I don't really want to go there. Also, the alt-right and the nutty, Bible-thumping fundies of USA are actually giving a bad name to Christians in general and I'm not fine with that. If I was born in the US, it's possible I might have been an atheist until the day I die. Now I won't deny that Catholics have their own problems and we are not all that scholastic types who'd be the perfect disciples of Aquinas and Augustine, but still...
However, if we want to look at it that way, pretty much every religious conviction (or lack thereof, as with atheism) is "right" and thinks of others they are "wrong". Same with politics. My political standings are "right" and yours are "wrong". Otherwise there's, like, no reason to do it
And believe me, I've had a lot of disputes with my mother, who's a very agressive atheist and we stand on completely different sides politically. Each of us thinks he's right.When I said intelligent, I was talking specifically about the "third way" - people not convinced by the scientific arguments presented so far, yet not believing in that "seven days" theory. I mean - don't get me wrong, I'm totally pro-evolution, just trying to defend some other people who don't deserve complete condemnation (wink wink
) - all history is merely what we agree it to be. We have numerous dark spots in history, we constantly keep rewriting it (So what did Alexander the Gread died of? How many deaths did Stalin cause exactly? How many Troys have been there and how many times has the city been destroyed/sacked? Were the statues in ancient Greece and Rome painted or not and if, has it been so for all of them/most of them? Where did Spartacus die and what happened to his body? Did dinosaurs have feathers? etc.) and it gets worse the further we go. From what I understand, even the big bang theory has been initially spat upon, because it reminded people too much of the ex-nihilo like the Bible says (the fact it's been first proposed by a Christian didn't help). So it's always up to the person in question and his conclusions, even if there is evidence. That's the main problem with conspiracy theorists, by the way - once they choose to believe there is a conspiracy, there is no way to convince them otherwise, because most people will choose (and we usually go into arguments already prepared). 12 Angry Men is a wonderful movie, but it's just that - a movie.By the way, since we talk about creationism as a whole, just recently I found out more about that Scopes/Monkey/Inherit the Wind trial and I was in for a very big surprise (for example, the trial being a pro forma show trial in order to generate controversy and to revitalise a region that's been slowly dying and no-one really wanted to breach the law nor uphold it, but I digress again). The movie portrays it very differently.
I don't know Morse enough to know what he actually believes, just saw a few interviews on YT. For example he was asked how he felt about the new album, and he answered he was amazed at how good God made it to be.
Yep, we tend to give Him credit for our accomplishments while our failings are only ours (however unfair it might seem). Some do it more explicitly than others and Neal's humbleness is actually pretty nice. If anything, it stops him from having that "oh, look at me, I'm a maestro, (*cough *cough Miles Davis *cough *cough Robert Fripp *cough)
But sorry for the enormous digression, now back at Neal:
This is very much true. Actually, I always saw Spock's Beard as the next best thing to Genesis. Not only the sound is very similar (well, to them and to Gentle Giant, I guess) and they all do these little-songs-inside-longer-structures epics, but also with the Gabriel/Morse comparison. Both were definitely "men with a plan", that is, they definitely had a very strong idea where to go, both were very spiritual, quirky, roleplaying (whether it's "a flower" or Senor Velasco), even slightly similar vocally who left the band because they feard fame, after a heavy-on-the-brain double album that was mostly their lyrical child and left the band slightly clueless with the drummer taking on the vocal duties - have I made a mistake here?
It is way too direct. But that's his shtick - take it or leave it be. Now 1. I agree with him a lot, 2. even if I didn't, I guess I'd appreciate him being so openly.. ."himself", so I probably wouldn't mind anyway, but if being explicit about this stuff bothers you, you should stay away. It's cool you care about music primarily, because then you have no problem with that.
On the other hand, speaking from the point of view of a Christian, it often helps, though. There is something cathartic about the ? album that's not just in the music (though that's very important), but also in the lyrics. But I'll leave that for later, since I'm probably not yet prepared to discuss that album fully and to say what I mean exactly. Of course, if either you or Jazz or anyone (or @Saapanael , who at least likes both Systematic Chaos and Black Clouds , though this really, really sounds like neither) tell me you have had this cathartic experience anyway, without religious connection, I will reconsider the above and simply give credit to the music. Which just might be - when after the whole album/song it all goes back on the final track (Temple of the Living God 2) and you hear the guitarists wailing over the Another World theme reprise, I cry. Every-f**king-time. It's completely instrumental and it tells more than your average doorstopper book.
, though this really, really sounds like neither) tell me you have had this cathartic experience anyway, without religious connection, I will reconsider the above and simply give credit to the music. Which just might be - when after the whole album/song it all goes back on the final track (Temple of the Living God 2) and you hear the guitarists wailing over the Another World theme reprise, I cry. Every-f**king-time. It's completely instrumental and it tells more than your average doorstopper book.Same here. He's such a Teddy bear it would really shock me. But it might happen.
You're absolutely right about this, though it still smells of Morse through and through. But yes, this "band experiment" is probably supposed to be just like that, a regular prog group. Small wonder, really, he has tried a lot since he went solo (pop, rock, something rather folkish, Christian prog, doing covers, worship/gospel albums etc.) and I guess he's not afraid of the band experience anymore. Especially with Gillette and Portnoy involved, this cannot go wrong
That's a very good pick here - the solo's awesome and the buildup is something to behold - as if lately Neal has been the person truly continuing the Dream Theater legacy
(in fact, that part around 3:10 reminds me definitely of a DT song - someone refresh my memory!)Definitely try out Similitude - I really belive that bloke naming it the album of the year wasn't exaggerating... or at least not much. Judging from the reception and various reactions over the net, it might actually be his biggest hit and his overall best-received work since Beard, or Testimony at least.
Also, if anone was interested on another Catholic's point of view regarding Neal - here's something I found: http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Item/1583/sola_gratia_the_prog_foolishness_of_neal_morse.aspx I'm not saying I agree completely (and I don't have to ) and it might not even be all that interesting from an atheist's point of view, but still, I dug it up and since I've mentioned those theological differences before, I might just as well put it here. Feel free to ignore it.
) and it might not even be all that interesting from an atheist's point of view, but still, I dug it up and since I've mentioned those theological differences before, I might just as well put it here. Feel free to ignore it.In fact, feel free to ignore this post as a whole.
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