Paschendale
- Thread starter LooseCannon
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Ancient Mariner
'paschendale'
I was in Passhendale yesterday!!! It was amazing to see. I vissited the trenches, some museums and some cemetarys. In the Tyne Cot cemetary 35 000 soldiers are burried. It was totally amazing. I recomend you to go there if you're in Belgium some time!
I was in Passhendale yesterday!!! It was amazing to see. I vissited the trenches, some museums and some cemetarys. In the Tyne Cot cemetary 35 000 soldiers are burried. It was totally amazing. I recomend you to go there if you're in Belgium some time!
A
Anonymous
Guest
'paschendale'
Hey there,
Actually your spelling problem is easily explained.
The town's name is/was written as:
Passchendale in English
Passendaele in Dutch at the time of the war
Passendale in Dutch today
Anyway it's a true masterpiece and I'm glad they finally made a song about Belgium [!--emo&
--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/wink.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'wink.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
I thnk DoD is their best album since 7th Son, but IMHO Brave New World comes very close.
Hey there,
Actually your spelling problem is easily explained.
The town's name is/was written as:
Passchendale in English
Passendaele in Dutch at the time of the war
Passendale in Dutch today
Anyway it's a true masterpiece and I'm glad they finally made a song about Belgium [!--emo&
--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/wink.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'wink.gif\' /][!--endemo--]I thnk DoD is their best album since 7th Son, but IMHO Brave New World comes very close.
A
Anonymous
Guest
'paschendale'
My hat's off to all of u guys' families who were affected by that Battle, and by any war for that matter...
and all those stinking people who say that Maiden are evil, should listen to songs such as Paschendale, 2 mins to midnight, Blood Brothers, etc., and shut their mouths for good!!
My hat's off to all of u guys' families who were affected by that Battle, and by any war for that matter...
and all those stinking people who say that Maiden are evil, should listen to songs such as Paschendale, 2 mins to midnight, Blood Brothers, etc., and shut their mouths for good!!
'paschendale'
[!--QuoteBegin-IceMan+Oct 30 2003, 04:52 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(IceMan @ Oct 30 2003, 04:52 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--] My hat's off to all of u guys' families who were affected by that Battle, and by any war for that matter...
and all those stinking people who say that Maiden are evil, should listen to songs such as Paschendale, 2 mins to midnight, Blood Brothers, etc., and shut their mouths for good!! [/quote]
Well, Ice, it is always good to find people who care...war stinks and it's our job as the youth who haven't truly experienced it to pass on the lessons learned in the trenches and on the beaches.
[!--QuoteBegin-IceMan+Oct 30 2003, 04:52 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(IceMan @ Oct 30 2003, 04:52 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--] My hat's off to all of u guys' families who were affected by that Battle, and by any war for that matter...
and all those stinking people who say that Maiden are evil, should listen to songs such as Paschendale, 2 mins to midnight, Blood Brothers, etc., and shut their mouths for good!! [/quote]
Well, Ice, it is always good to find people who care...war stinks and it's our job as the youth who haven't truly experienced it to pass on the lessons learned in the trenches and on the beaches.
A
Anonymous
Guest
'paschendale'
sure thing, mate... [!--emo&:chug:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/beerchug.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'beerchug.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
a lot of kids these days just don't know what war is all about, and just think that it is so cool and all that....they really don't know what it is to really BE in one...
sure thing, mate... [!--emo&:chug:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/beerchug.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'beerchug.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
a lot of kids these days just don't know what war is all about, and just think that it is so cool and all that....they really don't know what it is to really BE in one...
A
Anonymous
Guest
'paschendale'
My Great-Grandfather was mortally wounded at Passchendaele. He went over to fight in 1914 with the First Canadian Expeditionary Force, and so managed to survive nearly four years in the trenches. Tomorrow is remembrance day in Canada. Another Canadian, John McCrae (who also witnessed far more horror than we can imagine) wrote these words about yet another battle in Belgium that destroyed an entire generation of my countrymen:
In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.
We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.
Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.
I think very little is solved with violence. It only leads to more. Some wars need to be fought, but war is not some glorious and exciting game. It is the stuff of nightmares and should only be entered into when there is no choice. All those young men in Iraqi trenches died in the same sort of terror my great-grandfather must have felt. And I'll bet they thought their deaths were just as pointless.
Shame on us all for allowing ourselves to keep fighting wars. Have we as a species learned nothing at all?
My Great-Grandfather was mortally wounded at Passchendaele. He went over to fight in 1914 with the First Canadian Expeditionary Force, and so managed to survive nearly four years in the trenches. Tomorrow is remembrance day in Canada. Another Canadian, John McCrae (who also witnessed far more horror than we can imagine) wrote these words about yet another battle in Belgium that destroyed an entire generation of my countrymen:
In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.
We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.
Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.
I think very little is solved with violence. It only leads to more. Some wars need to be fought, but war is not some glorious and exciting game. It is the stuff of nightmares and should only be entered into when there is no choice. All those young men in Iraqi trenches died in the same sort of terror my great-grandfather must have felt. And I'll bet they thought their deaths were just as pointless.
Shame on us all for allowing ourselves to keep fighting wars. Have we as a species learned nothing at all?
Onhell
Infinite Dreamer
'paschendale'
I've noticed a lot of posts on how horrible war is and we should stop it and it shouldn't exist all together unless there is no way out. I believe that as long as we're human and as long as we have an idependant mind, wars will exsist. We can have from minor disagreements on our opinions to fist fights, or when countries are involved, wars. I would love a perpetual state of peace as much as the next guy, but I find it unrealistic, extremely romantic and pretty much impossible considering our human nature. We can always hope and dream, after all that's what carries us forward, but I don't think it will ever happen.
I've noticed a lot of posts on how horrible war is and we should stop it and it shouldn't exist all together unless there is no way out. I believe that as long as we're human and as long as we have an idependant mind, wars will exsist. We can have from minor disagreements on our opinions to fist fights, or when countries are involved, wars. I would love a perpetual state of peace as much as the next guy, but I find it unrealistic, extremely romantic and pretty much impossible considering our human nature. We can always hope and dream, after all that's what carries us forward, but I don't think it will ever happen.
'paschendale'
I think it's greed: the insatiable desire by some of the already rich and powerful to grab even more wealth and power. If you already have your entire pie, the only way to get more is to grab a slice of someone else's pie. And greed is one of those human tendencies that everybody has to some degree or another.
I'm sure there might have been some wars where there's another explanation, but all the ones I can think of boiled down to the initial agressor trying to grab more power, land and wealth. A historian (or a certain history major who haunts these boards) might be able to shed more light on this...
I think it's greed: the insatiable desire by some of the already rich and powerful to grab even more wealth and power. If you already have your entire pie, the only way to get more is to grab a slice of someone else's pie. And greed is one of those human tendencies that everybody has to some degree or another.
I'm sure there might have been some wars where there's another explanation, but all the ones I can think of boiled down to the initial agressor trying to grab more power, land and wealth. A historian (or a certain history major who haunts these boards) might be able to shed more light on this...
'paschendale'
Jee whiz, who could you ever be talking about?
In some aspects, SinisterMinister, you're correct. Wars can often boil down to power and greed. In some aspects, you're totally wrong to take it down to such an aspect. War is often very complicated.
I promise I will post more on this when I return from my Remembrance Day service.
They shall not grow old, as we who are left grow old
Age shall not weary them nor the years condemn
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We shall remember them.
Jee whiz, who could you ever be talking about?
In some aspects, SinisterMinister, you're correct. Wars can often boil down to power and greed. In some aspects, you're totally wrong to take it down to such an aspect. War is often very complicated.
I promise I will post more on this when I return from my Remembrance Day service.
They shall not grow old, as we who are left grow old
Age shall not weary them nor the years condemn
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We shall remember them.
'paschendale'
War is something that humans have had since the first two men looked at each other and one decided the other had a nicer stick. The basic premise of war is to get that which you don't have. In ancient times, however, we see the first evolution of war into something beyond basic power struggles.
The best example of this is someone we all know very well: Alexander III of Macedon, whom men called the Great. The Persian Empire was at the time the preeminent power in the world, and had already launched three invasions of Greece. The first and second under Darius, the third (and most successful) under Xerxes. The first was destroyed by a storm, the second by the Athenians at Marathon, and the third was defeated first by the Athenians at Salamis and then the Spartans at Platea.
The point is, there is a long history of hatred between the Greeks and the Persians. Although you have other empires who despised each other, you rarely see one man make his personal life goal the destruction of an empire. At least, rarely up until that time.
As we all know (for those of you who don't, get Somewhere in Time!) Alexander destroyed the Persian Empire. Then the traditional power offensive began when he attacked India. His troops were tired after years of fighting and were no longer fighting the traditional enemy. They went home.
War for revenge is different than war for mere power. War for power ends when one side has gained all the advantage their expenditure is worth. War for revenge ends usually in the destruction of one side.
A second example. The Punic Wars. Carthage was defeated in the power struggle, the first. Their war of revenge, the second, was eventually defeated by Scipio Africanus at Zama. Finally, Rome took her revenge for 20 years of devastation in Italia by Hannibal in the Third Punic War, where Carthage was snuffed out.
Oliver Cromwell. I just thought I'd mention him 'cause I like him.
Damnit. Class...will post more on my return!
(I wonder how many posts I can drag this out to...)
War is something that humans have had since the first two men looked at each other and one decided the other had a nicer stick. The basic premise of war is to get that which you don't have. In ancient times, however, we see the first evolution of war into something beyond basic power struggles.
The best example of this is someone we all know very well: Alexander III of Macedon, whom men called the Great. The Persian Empire was at the time the preeminent power in the world, and had already launched three invasions of Greece. The first and second under Darius, the third (and most successful) under Xerxes. The first was destroyed by a storm, the second by the Athenians at Marathon, and the third was defeated first by the Athenians at Salamis and then the Spartans at Platea.
The point is, there is a long history of hatred between the Greeks and the Persians. Although you have other empires who despised each other, you rarely see one man make his personal life goal the destruction of an empire. At least, rarely up until that time.
As we all know (for those of you who don't, get Somewhere in Time!) Alexander destroyed the Persian Empire. Then the traditional power offensive began when he attacked India. His troops were tired after years of fighting and were no longer fighting the traditional enemy. They went home.
War for revenge is different than war for mere power. War for power ends when one side has gained all the advantage their expenditure is worth. War for revenge ends usually in the destruction of one side.
A second example. The Punic Wars. Carthage was defeated in the power struggle, the first. Their war of revenge, the second, was eventually defeated by Scipio Africanus at Zama. Finally, Rome took her revenge for 20 years of devastation in Italia by Hannibal in the Third Punic War, where Carthage was snuffed out.
Oliver Cromwell. I just thought I'd mention him 'cause I like him.
Damnit. Class...will post more on my return!
(I wonder how many posts I can drag this out to...)
Onhell
Infinite Dreamer
'paschendale'
keep posting Loose, I don't have internet at home anymore! So the college library is my only access to this wonderful forum. Good insight, but I agree with SMX, most wars boil down to greed. To be honest, greed, lust and hate. Which is what I tried to say before, as long as we're human we'll have these emotions and react to them differently...including war.
keep posting Loose, I don't have internet at home anymore! So the college library is my only access to this wonderful forum. Good insight, but I agree with SMX, most wars boil down to greed. To be honest, greed, lust and hate. Which is what I tried to say before, as long as we're human we'll have these emotions and react to them differently...including war.
'paschendale'
Unfortunately...human nature seems to include those three things.
Unfortunately...human nature seems to include those three things.
A
Anonymous
Guest
'paschendale'
War is bullshit. Politicians create them, innocent victims fight them. [!--emo&:angry:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/mad.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'mad.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
War is bullshit. Politicians create them, innocent victims fight them. [!--emo&:angry:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/mad.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'mad.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
'paschendale'
[!--QuoteBegin-Frank McMaiden+Nov 13 2003, 12:57 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Frank McMaiden @ Nov 13 2003, 12:57 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--] War is bullshit. Politicians create them, innocent victims fight them. [!--emo&:angry:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/mad.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'mad.gif\' /][!--endemo--] [/quote]
I seem to remember a song with words to the same effect:
Politicians hide themselves away
They only started another war
Why should they go out to fight?
They leave that role to the poor
I think it was some obscure British metal band that sang that one...
As far as greed, lust and anger being an "unfortunate" part of human nature: I disagree. All three have a purpose when they aren't carried to extremes. Without greed, you'd never strive for anything better in your life. Without lust, the human race wouldn't carry on. Without anger, you'd let people walk all over you. In the correct amounts, they are all necessary. Bad things only happen when people take them too far.
[!--QuoteBegin-Frank McMaiden+Nov 13 2003, 12:57 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Frank McMaiden @ Nov 13 2003, 12:57 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--] War is bullshit. Politicians create them, innocent victims fight them. [!--emo&:angry:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/mad.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'mad.gif\' /][!--endemo--] [/quote]
I seem to remember a song with words to the same effect:
Politicians hide themselves away
They only started another war
Why should they go out to fight?
They leave that role to the poor
I think it was some obscure British metal band that sang that one...
As far as greed, lust and anger being an "unfortunate" part of human nature: I disagree. All three have a purpose when they aren't carried to extremes. Without greed, you'd never strive for anything better in your life. Without lust, the human race wouldn't carry on. Without anger, you'd let people walk all over you. In the correct amounts, they are all necessary. Bad things only happen when people take them too far.
Onhell
Infinite Dreamer
'paschendale'
In the right amounts they don't have those names, in the right amounts they are ambition, pasion and self respect. Greed, lust and hate are dangerous, in any amount. as for the politicains and innocent victims..... Who do you think have greed hate and lust? as for innocent people fighting.... I don't think the Berzerkers were exactly inocent, neither were the Germanic barbarians. 'Inocence, really comes from education and being able to say, 'fight? me? hell no, I rather work in an office!' but oh well.
In the right amounts they don't have those names, in the right amounts they are ambition, pasion and self respect. Greed, lust and hate are dangerous, in any amount. as for the politicains and innocent victims..... Who do you think have greed hate and lust? as for innocent people fighting.... I don't think the Berzerkers were exactly inocent, neither were the Germanic barbarians. 'Inocence, really comes from education and being able to say, 'fight? me? hell no, I rather work in an office!' but oh well.
'paschendale'
Naturally, this is what I meant when I said they are "unfortunate". The part of human nature that sucks is our tendancies to take these to the extreme.
And sometimes war has to be fought. Recent wars, no. But there are a few wars where countries got involved to do what's right, not because of political reasons. The Second World War will always be the proper example of a time when countries stepped in for morality, rather than politics. Yes, the war itself was nonsense. But Britain and France joined the war to defend an otherwise defenceless nation. The reasons are to an extent political (treaties, etc) and a matter of wounded pride (Hitler's promise to Chamberlain), but it was the proper thing to do. The people of Brittania enlisted in the armed forces because of that reason.
Naturally, this is what I meant when I said they are "unfortunate". The part of human nature that sucks is our tendancies to take these to the extreme.
And sometimes war has to be fought. Recent wars, no. But there are a few wars where countries got involved to do what's right, not because of political reasons. The Second World War will always be the proper example of a time when countries stepped in for morality, rather than politics. Yes, the war itself was nonsense. But Britain and France joined the war to defend an otherwise defenceless nation. The reasons are to an extent political (treaties, etc) and a matter of wounded pride (Hitler's promise to Chamberlain), but it was the proper thing to do. The people of Brittania enlisted in the armed forces because of that reason.
'paschendale'
I agree about WWII. I'm sure you know more about it than me, but I've always known that it was right for the Allies to get involved. My point about power-hungry evil motives for war was meant to only apply to the initial agressors; I don't blame the attacked parties for defending themselves.
But I was specifically thinking of WWII with regards Hitler's motives. Didn't he claim (at least initially) that Lebensraum was his justification for the war?
And with the current war in Iraq: look at what the US army did, not what Bush said to the public. The first thing they did upon invading Iraq was to seize control of the oil fields, which are now being tapped by US companies. It's all about money. (I gotta stop here before I go off on a silly political rant; I have a blog for that crap. [!--emo&
--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/biggrin.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'biggrin.gif\' /][!--endemo--] )
I agree about WWII. I'm sure you know more about it than me, but I've always known that it was right for the Allies to get involved. My point about power-hungry evil motives for war was meant to only apply to the initial agressors; I don't blame the attacked parties for defending themselves.
But I was specifically thinking of WWII with regards Hitler's motives. Didn't he claim (at least initially) that Lebensraum was his justification for the war?
And with the current war in Iraq: look at what the US army did, not what Bush said to the public. The first thing they did upon invading Iraq was to seize control of the oil fields, which are now being tapped by US companies. It's all about money. (I gotta stop here before I go off on a silly political rant; I have a blog for that crap. [!--emo&
--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/biggrin.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'biggrin.gif\' /][!--endemo--] )
'paschendale'
Oh, but I don't. It becomes difficult to restrain oneself. I'll try not to get started.
Lebenstraum was one of the reasons Hitler gave the German people, as well as unifying those Germans that had been sliced off of Germany at the end of WW1. But you also have to wonder if he was then planning the Holocaust and targeted Poland as the owner of the biggest Jewish community. Either way, it's still hatred and greed that started the war.
Oh, but I don't. It becomes difficult to restrain oneself. I'll try not to get started.
Lebenstraum was one of the reasons Hitler gave the German people, as well as unifying those Germans that had been sliced off of Germany at the end of WW1. But you also have to wonder if he was then planning the Holocaust and targeted Poland as the owner of the biggest Jewish community. Either way, it's still hatred and greed that started the war.
A
Anonymous
Guest
'paschendale'
Hello, everyone,
I'm a newbie here, looking for information on Paschendale. I checked out the one link [a href=\'http://www.geocities.com/~worldwar1/default.html\' target=\'_blank\']http://www.geocities.com/~worldwar1/default.html[/a], which led me all over and to some good pictures and links.
The Battle of Paschendale was the Third Battle of Ypres, and I also found a basic review at [a href=\'http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/FWWpasschendaele.htm\' target=\'_blank\']http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/FWWpa...sschendaele.htm[/a].
So how does everyone like Dance Of Death?
Lichen
Hello, everyone,
I'm a newbie here, looking for information on Paschendale. I checked out the one link [a href=\'http://www.geocities.com/~worldwar1/default.html\' target=\'_blank\']http://www.geocities.com/~worldwar1/default.html[/a], which led me all over and to some good pictures and links.
The Battle of Paschendale was the Third Battle of Ypres, and I also found a basic review at [a href=\'http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/FWWpasschendaele.htm\' target=\'_blank\']http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/FWWpa...sschendaele.htm[/a].
So how does everyone like Dance Of Death?
Lichen