Official Football Thread

Albie said:
I'm initially thinking it could have been Eric Cantona when Man U beat Liverpool in '96 (I'm not sure if he was their captain back then, though) ...
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Yes, he was indeed the captain - normally it would have been Steve Bruce, but he was out for the final. Cantona's winning goal in that final is one of my sweetest memories from English football  :D

By the way, I realize that I formulated my question in a clumsy way. I meant to ask who was the first non-British player to be part of a FA-cup winning team - and that would be Mr. Villa with Spurs in 1981 :innocent:

Speaking of Spurs and Villa, my first live experience with English football was actually the game between Spurs and Villa (yes, Aston Villa :)) in 1997.
 
Tonight and tomorrow the return matches in the UEFA-Cup! (results of first matches in brackets):

Wednesday:
Zenit St Petersburg v Marseille (1-3) (already started: right now the score = 1-0)
Hamburg v Bayer Leverkusen (0-1) (already started: right now the score = 0-1)
Bayern Munich v Anderlecht (5-0) 
Getafe v Benfica (2-1)
Everton v Fiorentina (0-2)
PSV v Tottenham (1-0)

Thursday:
Werder Bremen v Rangers (0-2) 
Sporting v Bolton (1-1)
 
Albie said:
Portsmouth Barnsley final. Time for some pointless and trivial FA Cup final facts:

  • The last team to win the cup and get promoted to the top flight in the same season was West Brom (in '31)
  • The last all England final (i.e. all players and subs from both sides where English) was the West Ham Fulham final of '75 (although Man U v Palace came close with only the two Welsh and two Scots in the Man U side and all of Palace being English).
  • And the '75 final was the last one to not have either Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, Everton or Spurs as one of the finalists.
  • The team to have retained the trophy for the longest was Portsmouth who had it for the duration of the Second World War (seven years).
  • And there is a pub in Pompey that will keep the Christmas decorations up while they (Portsmouth) are in the Cup.
  • Sunderland did it in 79 and Villa did it in 81 - that was to score the winning goal in the final (Alan Sunderland and Ricky Villa).
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That last one was an old chestnut my Maths teacher got me on - Sunderland did it in 79 and Villa in 81, who did it in 80?
 
4-2 and 7-6 on penalties wasn't it? Hard luck Toffee's and Yid's. I only saw bits of the Spurs game but Everton deserved to win. Lovely goal from Arteta.
 
Eddies Wingman said:
Quite typical night for English football this. Englishmen and penalties don't match well ... both Everton and Spurs go out on penalties.
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I thought losing with penalties was typically Dutch? ;)

Well, of course I'm very relieved! Did you see that supersafe by Gomes in the last minute of the extra time? That's what I meant with world class!
 
He really stepped up when it was needed most. That save in the last minute is one of the greatest saves I've seen this season. And he didn't do half bad on Tottenham's fifth penalty either.

Losing on penalties might be typical Dutch as well, but the jinx on English teams in penalty shootouts is many times stronger than any other penalty shootout jinx I know of  :smartarse: Props to PSV for staying cool towards the end - they were inferior to Spurs for much of the game and could easily have lost, but when the penalty shootout was due they had what it took.
 
http://www.pm.gov.uk/output/Page14995.asp

Therighttostand - epetition reply

13 March 2008

We received a petition asking:

    "We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to bring back the right to stand (terracing) at premiership football grounds."

    Details of Petition:

    "In Germany they have developed 'safe standing' at major grounds like Bayern munich and it is a major success story. Poorer members and youngers members of our society are being priced out of attending football matches, it is essential to encourage younger people to get of there armchairs and physically attend football matches, otherwise the culture of attending a football match will only exist with those that can afford it and ever increasing older members of our population."

    * Read the petition
    * Petitions home page

Read the Government's response

The Government's key aim must be to ensure that spectators attending matches do so in the safest environment possible. Following a number of disasters at football grounds over the years in the UK, many involving fatalities, changes were brought in to ensure such tragic events never reoccurred. Part of these changes included the introduction of all-seater stadia for the top two divisions. In turn, the all-seater policy has helped stadiums in this country to become some of the safest, best attended and most modern stadia in the world.

There is no firm evidence to support the view that the removal of the all seater policy or the introduction of systems used in grounds in Germany would directly result in cheaper ticket prices. Indeed, an analysis of ticket prices in leagues 1 and 2 indicated there is very little difference between the costs of standing and seating when it is available in this country. On average it is only £2.23 more expensive for sitting in League One and £1.75 for League Two.

The Government will continue to take into account the views of all interested parties on this matter. Apart from the fans who want a return to standing the Government has received no representation from any other interested party seeking a review of this policy.
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Foolishly thinking that as a citizen of the UK I had any sort of influence (however small) on what happens in the country, I signed this petition a while ago about re-introducing terracing into English football grounds, and the government's reply is quoted above.

"Safest environment possible" - well, this is bullshit, because we don't watch football matches in the safest possible environment - do we turn up to matches wrapped in bubble-wrap, ready for our flu jabs, and then to be put inside a plastic bubble so we can't breathe the same air as others, each attended by our own personal guard? Asking for terracing isn't asking for unsafe grounds, but for a more enjoayble experience whilst remaining in a safe environment.
Regard this graph that I drew up:
terraces.jpg

How it is at the moment, How it used to be, and what 95% of football fans would like. The tags are bit blurry; they read Enjoyment and Safety.

And the last line of the response; "Apart from the fans..." What do mean apart from the fans?? Who else are you going to hear from? You're looking for people who go to football grounds who might want terracing, who aren't fans?? Maybe we're not taking into consideration the livelihood of plastic seats, who might be out of a job...

The Government will continue to take into account the views of all interested parties on this matter.
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No you won't. Don't lie.
 
national acrobat said:
That last one was an old chestnut my Maths teacher got me on - Sunderland did it in 79 and Villa in 81, who did it in 80?
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Brooking - with (now get this) a diving header. :D

Forostar said:
I thought losing with penalties was typically Dutch? ;)
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I think both the English and the Dutch have suffered the indignity of loosing in penalty shoot-outs - more than most. But if you was to look at how we have been eliminated from any World Cup or Euro Cup since (and including) Italia '90, it does not bode well for us English. That is why we joke about it.

Italy '90: Lost to West Germany on pens.
Euro '92: Did not progress from the group stages.
USA '94: We weren't there.
Euro '96: Lost to Germany on pens (again).
France '98: Lost to Argentina on pens.
Euro 2000: Did not progress from the group stages (but we beat the Germans).
Japan/Korea 2002: Lost to Brazil in quarters.
Euro 2004: Lost to Portugal on pens.
Germany 2006: Lost to Portugal (yes, again) on pens.

In conclusion: nine competitions, lost on pens 5 times out of 9. Now that is failure in penalty shoot outs.
 
Albie (and others), check this out. Seems Holland was the penalty-loser king for quite some time (esp. from 2000 til 2004), but England passed us since the last two tournaments (2004-....) ! :)

England compared to Holland:

Italy '90: Lost to West Germany on pens1 / Lost to West Germany in the round of 16
Euro '92: Did not progress from the group stages / Lost to Denmark in the semi-finals on pens1
USA '94: We weren't there / Lost to Brazil in the quarter-finals
Euro '96: Lost to Germany on pens2 / Lost to France in the quarter-finals on pens2
France '98: Lost to Argentina on pens3 / Lost to Brazil in the semi-finals on pens3
Euro 2000: Did not progress from the group stages / Lost to Italy in the semi-finals on pens4
Japan/Korea 2002: Lost to Brazil in quarters / We weren't there
Euro 2004: Lost to Portugal on pens4 / Lost to Portugal in the semi-finals
Germany 2006: Lost to Portugal (yes, again) on pens5 / Lost to Portugal in the round of 16

In conclusion:
England: nine competitions, lost on pens 5 times out of 9. Now that is failure in penalty shoot outs.
Holland: nine competitions, lost on pens 4 times out of 9. Now that is also failure in penalty shoot outs. ;)

BTW, we could say England lost on pens 5 times out 8 played competitions, and Holland 4 times out of 8 played competitions, that's 50-62,5%!!  :blink:

Better even is to only check the amount of penalty moments, and see how often a country went through.

--------------------------

Wow! Arsenal vs Liverpool in the Champions League quarter finals! (1/2 + 8/9 April):

Arsenal - Liverpool
AS Roma - Manchester United
Schalke - FC Barcelona
Fenerbahçe - Chelsea

UEFA-CUP quarter-finals (3 & 10 April): 

Bayer Leverkusen - FC Zenit
Glasgow Rangers - Sporting Portugal
Bayern München - Getafe   
Fiorentina - PSV             
 
Predictions for Champions League:

Liverpool beat Arsenal
Man U beat Roma
Barca beat Schalke
Chelsea beat Fenerbache

Semis:
Liverpool beat Chelsea
Barca beat Man U

Final:
Barca beat Liverpool
 
@Forostar: Interesting stats - a question though, how many times have The Netherlands actually won a penalty shoot out in that time? I do recall them beating Norway (I think) in the last 8 of Euro 2004. Was there any more?

England have only managed it once - against Spain in the last 8 of Euro '96.

@NA: Fair predictions and I won't go too much against that - but I do think Man U can beat Barca over two legs. A Liverpool Man U final would be, in my view, the best I could hope for this season.

But this all pales into total insignificance if Southend get promoted this season to The Championship. Some things are just more important. :D
 
Albie said:
@Forostar: Interesting stats - a question though, how many times have The Netherlands actually won a penalty shoot out in that time? I do recall them beating Norway (I think) in the last 8 of Euro 2004. Was there any more?
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It was Sweden, indeed in the quarter-finals of 2004. No more!

Albie said:
England have only managed it once - against Spain in the last 8 of Euro '96.
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So we're really close partners when it comes to penalties. *shakes hands* ;)
 
Albie said:
@NA: Fair predictions and I won't go too much against that - but I do think Man U can beat Barca over two legs. A Liverpool Man U final would be, in my view, the best I could hope for this season.

But this all pales into total insignificance if Southend get promoted this season to The Championship. Some things are just more important. :D
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I, speaking as a United fan, am very unsure about if I want a Liverpool vs United final. It will, no doubt, increase the sales of blood-pressure adjusting medication in Merseyside and Greater Manchester - and it would also be an occasion that would stir trouble. I had personally wished for Barca vs United in the final for a copy of the 1991 Cup Winners Cup final, but no.

I just hope the Roma police is a bit more on their toes early this time. The drive-by-stabbing habit of some Italian "hooligans" (who as I've been told are not supporting neither Lazio nor as Roma, but just do this stabbing as a kind of sport) will certainly provoke retaliation from Mancs on tour, and there we go again. Perhaps the Englishmen have to be "shepherded" all the way to the stadium and back to the airport afterwards to prevent any clashes. There is certainly some bad blood involved here and I really wished United would have met anyone else.

As for the League One promotion race - good luck to Southend, but it seems like playoff is the best they can hope for now? Swansea are nearly there already and the distance between Doncaster/Carlisle and Southend is 10 points ...but still 9 matches left, a lot might still happen.
 
As a United Fan I am actually reasonably confident about the Champions league. we have proved we can beat Roma and I don't think Barcelona are the force they were two or three years ago. sure they still have an enormous amount of talent on show with the likes of E'to, Ronaldinhio, Decco etc but if United can take at least a two goal margin to the Nou camp (I think they play at OT first?) then I think we can hold on. They just need to make sure they don't concede too many away goals. For me the tie against milan last year was lost at OT, despite winning 3-2 on the night, the two away goals killed us off.

I'm hoping for an Arsenal - Man U final becuase Ferguson knows exactly how to trouble the Gunners and I think we'd do them.

As for the Premiership, I am worrying more about Chelsea than I am about Arsenal. They are quietly getting on with things and are now only thre points behind us. It reminds me of the year they first won the premiership with Mouriniho. Everyone was looking at the rivalry between Man U and Arsenal and Chelsea just come up and took the title away.

United are playing well and winnng but they are not scoring many goals and relying on Ronaldo too much. if we start to play badly or Ronaldo gets injured I fear the worst. i am just hoping Rooney can find his goal scoring touch and start contributing more at the business end of the field.

It is all making for a great finale to the season...
 
Forostar said:
So we're really close partners when it comes to penalties. *shakes hands* ;)
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All I can say is that I know what it's like. I share your pain. ;)

Eddies Wingman said:
As for the League One promotion race - good luck to Southend, but it seems like playoff is the best they can hope for now? Swansea are nearly there already and the distance between Doncaster/Carlisle and Southend is 10 points ...but still 9 matches left, a lot might still happen.
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Next game for the Shrimpers - a home match against Swansea. Southend are the form team at the moment and I wouldn't be surprised if Southend beat them.

Back in the Village said:
As for the Premiership, I am worrying more about Chelsea than I am about Arsenal. They are quietly getting on with things and are now only thre points behind us. It reminds me of the year they first won the premiership with Mouriniho. Everyone was looking at the rivalry between Man U and Arsenal and Chelsea just come up and took the title away.
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Funny you should say that, I think that at their current form and coupled with their run in, Arsenal will be lucky to finish third. Chelsea have found a bit of form and they entertain both Arsenal and Man U at the Bridge - but I still think the title is Man U's to give away.
 
Let's see how "Showdown Sunday" goes. If Man U can beat the Scousers and Arsenal and Chelsea draw (and providing Man U win midweek) then I'll be confident we can do it.
 
another great goal from Ronaldo last night ensured a comfortable if boring win over Bolton. And what a game at White Hart Lane!!! Tottenham did Arsenal a massive favour there. So if Arsenal and Chelsea draw on Sunday and Man u beat Liverpool we'll be four clear of Arsenal and seven clear of Chelsea.  :)
 
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