Not the same band... Not the same music!

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BuriedOnPlanetDune said:
The fact is that I've seen many people on this forum stating that they enjoy equally albums from different "era" in Maiden discography...
I don't want to offend anyone, but do you think that's possible? Here I'm not talking about the quality of the composition, which is obviously fairly consistent, but about emotional attachment...

BuriedOnPlanetDune said:
For instance there are some Maiden albums I don`t own because I consider them not worthy.

I think I see the problem.

When you own an album and listen to it many times - over and over and over and over again over many years - you continually find new things in it and about it. At least, I do. The more times I listen to a great album, the more my respect for it increases.

Since I own all the Iron Maiden albums, I have listened to all of them many many times. I have accumulated a great respect for all of them, even NPFTD (which I think is significantly worse than the rest, though others here disagree).

If you get all the albums and give them all a fair chance, you may find that you also "enjoy equally albums from different era [sic]". By making the decision that some are "not worthy", you only create a self-fulfilling prophecy that you won't enjoy them all.

Of course, it is your right to take that course. But then it's only natural that you won't understand why others, who choose a different course, feel differently about the music.

I think that should answer your question about whether it's "possible" to enjoy all the albums equally. Yes, it is, provided you give yourself a chance to do so.
 
SinisterMinisterX said:
I think I see the problem...
I think that should answer your question about whether it's "possible" to enjoy all the albums equally. Yes, it is, provided you give yourself a chance to do so.

My problem is maily with the Blaze era (and those 2 albums I don`t own).
I did give them an open-minded try but their style, some silly and banal intros (obviously only IMO) together with a voice I personally dislike, made them very difficult to play often.
Giving them a chance doesn`t assure the result!
To my ears the musical idea underlying those album is so different that  makes them almost "not Maiden": hence the name of the topic.
Since in my view this could almost be the music of another band, I questioned the possibility of "enjoying them equally"...
One could argue that many similarities are there, and this must be true since they are the product of the same  band, but I think it is evident that TXF and VXI stand out from the discography as "different"!
 
I want to remind everyone that BoPD has the right to choose not to enjoy Blaze-era albums.  His personal taste is not to be attacked on this forum.  You are free to state your own opinions why or why not you like those albums and why you think that he might be incorrect in his statement that "this could almost be the music of another band".  However, just as we do not put up with "LOL BALZE SUX" here, we also don't put up with "LOL BALZE ROCKZ UR SOX".
 
SinisterMinisterX said:
This makes sense, since TNOTB is in the key of D.

However, does anyone know when he started doing this?

I ask because Adrian plays parts of that song on the Classic Albums "The Number Of The Beast" DVD - and he is clearly playing in standard tuning there, not dropped-D.*

I'm also too lazy right now to look up when that DVD was made, but I'm pretty sure it was post-reunion at least.

As far as I'm aware, that DVD was about the studio album version of 'The Number Of The Beast'...he started playing it with a downtuned guitar live after the reunion.

As to what 'Drop-D' tuning means, the lowest string on the guitar (the E string) is downtuned by 1 whole tone, to a D.  This means that a single finger is needed to play a power chord (the simplest form of chord, used in rock and metal music), as opposed to two or three.  This allows the guitarist to change power chords very quickly. 

It also means that playing the first two or three strings (D-A-D) open (as in, without pressing the strings down) gives you a lower power chord, a D5 (this one just happens to be rooted in the D below Middle C...I believe).  It's this lower D5 that gives the 'dirty' feel to the riffs, which in turn can lead to the production feeling dirtier (if this is accentuated during mixing and mastering).

Similarly, if you listen to any death metal that is downtuned to, say, B or A (Demilich and Eucharist being examples), there is even clearer audible evidence that the guitars are downtuned; certainly, Demilich's songs cannot help but being downtuned, the notes are so low!  Other DM acts that tune to, say, D or C, may not be so obvious in their downtuning, except when they move down to the lower tones on the bottom strings.

As to the Blaze-era being a 'different band', I find that to be partially true.  The peculiar combination of events surrounding the recording of 'The X Factor' certainly helps with its dark sound, and the more simplistic form of Virtual XI is somewhat unexplainable; the simple drums and somewhat bland production could be a marketing move to attempt to break into the commercial market, or it could be an attempt to produce some 'rockier' music, like Steve would have listened to when he was younger.  However, it is still Maiden.  Futureal, Man on the Edge and Lord of the Flies are the quintessential Maiden singles, but The X Factor seems to be a threshold in Maiden's songwriting.  After the evident success of 'Fear of the Dark', from the previous album, we can see a greater number of epics on the next two albums, and a greater emphasis on the 'epic' side of the songs, as opposed to the more rapid-fire songs from the 'classic' period...yes, songs like Powerslave and Rime (and many others) can easily be defined as epic, too, but the emphasis from the Blaze-era onwards seems to be on music that marches, rather than gallops.

Of course, this a huge generalisation, with quite a few exceptions, but I feel it may explain some of the polemic directed at the Blaze-era...a new direction and a new voice might make it appear that a different band is writing the music.
 
Thanks for that, LooseCannon.  Very good for calming down Blaze-lovers.  I would possibly have responded more aggressively had it not been for your post.

BOPD, funnily enough, when I heard some songs from Virtual XI (esp. Angel and the Never Ending Chorus), I also thought that "this isn't Maiden".  I didn't like them, I wasn't too keen on Blaze singing, and hardly ever listened to them.  But after discovering this site I was encouraged to try them again.  I gave them another chance, and they've grown on me so much from then that The X Factor is one of my favourite albums now. :) 

"banal intros"; I don't know what banal means, but I guess it doesn't matter.  But you might want to check Blood on the World's Hands, The Edge of Darkness, or Sign of the Cross; they all have fantastic intros.

As for being "different", I find it hard to disagree, but as I said earlier, I initially thought them "not-Maiden" too. 

So what I'm saying is, give them one more chance.  A change of attitude towards an album can make all the difference in the world; it did with me. :)  If all else fails, then at least check out Sign of the Cross and The Clansman on Rock in Rio, and Lord of the Flies on Death on the Road.  They're Blaze-tracks, but sung by Bruce, and they just might get you into enjoying the other songs from their albums too.
 
I also disliked TFX and VXI, even after having heard the songs. And I definitely agree that they have a distinct sound that is quite different compared to the rest of the discography.

A little while ago, though, I relistened TFX. Sat down with my headphones on, shut the lights, and just listened to the whole thing (I think I might have cut off before Unbeliever, it was in the middle of the night and I needed to sleep). And since then I've fallen in love with it. I think some of the lyrics are really brilliant, and while I'm no fan of Blaze, I got used to him.

I still to this day find VXI to be the worst Maiden-album, but I don't necessarily connect that to the era it's in, more to the fact that the songs themselves just don't inspire me.

Oh, and as for Bruce's solo work. "one song or two" on each album won't cut it, imo. I'd say Chemical Wedding is the place to start, as it's often cited as his best work. If you're looking for some taster, get Scream For Me Brazil, which is a live-album. It serves more of a purpose than the best of.
 
BuriedOnPlanetDune said:
Apart from that, I`ve never followed Bruce`s career - the only album I own is Tattoed Millionaire - but reading these pages woke up a personal curiosity. Probably I`ll have to satisfy it the hard way :innocent:
This is similar to my awareness of Bruce's solo career - I had Tattooed Millionaire from the time it came out, then Bruce left Maiden and I had not even considered listening to anything from his solo stuff. Then many years later, I read something about Accident of Birth being a good album. I got hold of a copy and listened to it a few times, but was not entirely blown away. Then from recommendation's on this forum after a thread I started about Bruce - I got the Chemical Wedding CD. That CD ranks as a good an album as Maiden have ever done and it is well worth buying.

But back to the original question - I have my favourite era's from Maiden, but I have also witnessed their progression from the early punky sounding days to what they are now. This has led me to fully appreciate the band and have a liking for all their albums (maybe aside from Fear of the Dark). Possibly not equally but certainly I would not dismiss or favour any era as being worse or better than the rest - emotionally or not.

After all, if we want stagnation - there is always Slayer. ;)
 
Because I'm bored and people seem unsure, I will delve into a full TOUR BY TOUR ANALYSIS OF WHICH SONGS H PLAYS DROP D!

* Indicates drop D
*/- Indicates sometimes played Drop D

Ed Huntour 1999  (giveaway- H playing a Jackson King V)
1. Aces High *
2. Wrathchild *
3. The Trooper *
4. 2 Minutes To Midnight
5. The Clansman
6. Wasted Years
7. Killers *
8. Futureal
9. Man on the Edge
10. Powerslave
11. The Phantom of the Opera *
12. The Evil That Men Do
13. Fear of the Dark *
14. Iron Maiden *
15. The Number of the Beast *
16. Hallowed Be Thy Name *
17. Run to the Hills *

Songs played sometimes
1. Stranger in a strange Land

Brave New World Tour 2000  (giveaway- H playing a Jackson King V, or white Fender Stratocaster)
1. The Wickerman
2. Ghost of the Navigator *
3. Brave New World *
4. Wratchild *
5. 2 Minutes to Midnight
6. Blood Brothers
7. Sign of the Cross *
8. The Mercenary
9. The Trooper
10. Dream of Mirrors
11. The Clansman
12. The Evil That Men Do
13. Fear of the Dark *
14. Iron Maiden *
15. The Number of the Beast *
16. Hallowed Be Thy Name *
17. Sanctuary *

Songs played sometimes
1. Run to the Hills *
2. Children of the Damned
3. The Fallen Angel *
4. Out of the Silent Planet

Give Me Ed Till I'm Dead Tour 2003  (giveaway- H playing a white Fender Strat)
1. The Number of the Beast*
2. The Trooper
3. Die With Your Boots On
4. Revelations
5. Hallowed Be Thy Name */-
6. 22 Acacia Avenue
7. Wildest Dreams
8. The Wickerman
9. Brave New World *
10. The Clansman
11. The Clairvoyant *
12. Heaven Can Wait *
13. Fear of the Dark *
14. Iron Maiden *
15. Bring Your Daughter to the Slaughter
16. 2 Minutes to Midnight
17. Run to the Hills *

Dance of Death Tour 2003/04

To my knowledge, no songs were played Drop D on this tour.

Early Days Tour (giveaway- H playing a Gibson SG)
1. Murders in the Rue Morgue
2. Another Life
3. Prowler
4. The Trooper
5. Remember Tomorrow
6. Where Eagles Dare
7. Run to the Hills *
8. Revelations
9. Wrathchild
10. Die With Your Boots On
11. The Phantom of the Opera */-
12. The Number of the Beast *
13. Hallowed Be Thy Name */-
14. Iron Maiden *
15. Running Free
16. Drifter */-
17. Sanctuary */-

Songs played sometimes
1. Charlotte the Harlot *

A Matter of Life And death tour 2006 (giveaway- H playing a Gibson SG)
1. Different World
2. These Colours Don't Run
3. Brighter Than A Thousand Suns
4. The Pilgrim
5. The Longest Day
6. Out of the Shadows
7. The Reincarnation of Benjamin Breeg */-
8. For the Greater Good of God
9. Lord of Light
10. The Legacy *
11. Fear of the Dark *
12. Iron Maiden *
13. 2 Minutes to Midnight
14. The Evil That Men Do
15. Hallowed Be Thy Name */-

2007 tour (giveaway- H playing a Gibson SG, white Fender strat)
1. Different World
2. These Colours Don't Run
3. Brighter Than A Thousand Suns
4. Wrathchild
5. The Trooper
6. The Reincarnation of Benjamin Breeg *
7. For the Greater Good of God
8. The Number of the Beast *
9. Fear of the Dark *
10. Run To The Hills *
11. Iron Maiden *
12. 2 Minutes to Midnight
13. The Evil That Men Do
14. Hallowed Be Thy Name */-

Songs played sometimes
1. Children of the Damned


There you go, an exhaustive list pretty much complete and correct.

And btw, I still connect the Blaze era to Maiden's past efforts.  However, I think it sounds more like the reunion albums than the ones previous to it.
 
LooseCannon said:
I need to say this:
wtf!

I was bored, people were unsure, it kind of snowballed...

Back on topic:  Do you think the Chemical Wedding soundtrack will be a Roy Z/Bruce collab?  Will it include songs from other artists, such as Ozzy or Maiden?
 
Back to TXF and VXI.... I don't own VXI, but I'd like to, I do have TXF and I must say it is not my favorite and I usually play it when I'm in a certain mood. It is the kind of album I have to be in a mood to enjoy, unlike many others that even if I don't feel like listening to it (Piece of Mind for example, or Metallica's Ride the Lightning) I end up "rediscovering".
 
GuineaPig said:
I was bored, people were unsure, it kind of snowballed...

Back on topic:  Do you think the Chemical Wedding soundtrack will be a Roy Z/Bruce collab?  Will it include songs from other artists, such as Ozzy or Maiden?

I was under the impression that Bruce and Roy would be writing it, but the current press-release only mentions Bruce as "supervising", so I don't know. I think that together they could make one hell of a score.

I doubt it'd have Maiden-tracks though. I doubt it'll be very heavy on the vocals. Doesn't seem like that kind of film to me.

Right now I'm just expecting some version of Man Of Sorrows as well as some ambient tracks. And obviously there'd have to be a Chemical Wedding-version somewhere in there. Probably the credits.
 
GuineaPig said:
Dance of Death Tour 2003/04

To my knowledge, no songs were played Drop D on this tour.

I suppose not. The DOD setlists contains songs also present in other tours.

What do you exactly mean with this?: ...(giveaway- H playing a Gibson SG)....

Adrian changes his guitar quite often during a show, so it's not 1 guitar per show.
 
Forostar said:
I suppose not. The DOD setlists contains songs also present in other tours.

What do you exactly mean with this?: ...(giveaway- H playing a Gibson SG)....

Adrian changes his guitar quite often during a show, so it's not 1 guitar per show.

On the Dance of Death tour, in all the bootlegs I've seen, H plays his sunburst Strat the whole show through, which is not tuned drop D.

What I mean by "...(giveaway- H playing a Gibson SG)...." is that on that particular tour, H used that guitar to play songs in Drop D.  His sunburst strat is standard, his SGs and white strat are Drop D.  If you watch Rock In Rio, or Eddie Rips up Gothenburg, the songs he is playing with the white strat are Drop D in the former and with the SG in the latter.

And on the 2007 tour, H used both to play Drop D songs.  If you look at the Donington show, he played Number of the Beast and Fear of the Dark he used his SG, and Run to the Hills and Iron Maiden with the white Strat.  All the standard songs (Different World, These Colours, Wrathchild) he uses his sunburst Strat.


Anyways, i'd really like to see "Revelations" and "Mr Crowley" on the soundtrack.  It would spice it up a bit, and they're too sick to keep off it!
 
Thanks for your explanation. Still it sounds unlogical that Adrian would play e.g. HBTN drop D in 1999-2002, then NOT in 2003-2004 and after that again drop D, see what I mean?

I'll try to keep an eye on H's guitars from now on (also when checking DOD-concerts).
 
With relearn I meant that Adrian was forced to play his guitar differently because of the tuning. His left-hand positions (to create the chords) are different on a lower tuned guitar (drop D) than on a "normal" tuned guitar. It might even be so that he plays different chords on some parts, but SMX and some other might know more about that.

Dave and Janick never had to do this.

I am not sure if you should see this as a challenge for Adrian. I think he just prefers his new sound and that's what made him relearn the Maiden songs which he wanted to play 'eavier.
 
Forostar's right.  With Drop D, all conventional power chords, for example F5
A -4
E -2

Are now played with one finger
A - 4
D - 4

Because to play the same note Drop D, you have to play two frets (semitones) above the normal position.  The advantage to playing Drop D is that when playing songs in D, you would no longer have to avoid playing the sixth string.  Before when playing NOTB, H would've played this power chord during the intro:
D-7
A-5
E-X

Whereas now he can play:
D-7
A-5
D-0            or,

D-0
A-0             
D-0
( I think this is the actual chord he plays, it is lower, thus heavier)


You see?
 
Shrike said:
Oh, and as for Bruce's solo work. "one song or two" on each album won't cut it, imo. I'd say Chemical Wedding is the place to start, as it's often cited as his best work. If you're looking for some taster, get Scream For Me Brazil, which is a live-album. It serves more of a purpose than the best of.

...currently heavy playing Accidents of Birth, The Chemical Wedding and Scream for me Brazil :D :D :D
 
Don't do the same mistake as I did in the beginning and disregard Balls To Picasso and Skunkworks. These two albums take some time to get into, but they will be very rewarding in the end.
 
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