NIGHTWISH ALBUM RANKING GAME: #8 REVEALED

Mosh

Mosh

PM me your Nightwish album rankings!
Staff member
Hey all! With the Judas Priest game chugging along I want to give everyone a head start on our next band: NIGHTWISH.

Here's how it works:

1: Each user will submit their rankings of the 9 Nightwish studio albums to me via PM. The #1 album will receive 9 points, and #2 will receive 8, all the way down to #9 which will receive 1 point.

2: I will tally up the results and create a forum-wide ranking.

3: I will reveal the results one album at a time, starting at #9. This will be a more discussion based affair, since there will be no voting at this point.

So if you would like to participate, PM me your Nightwish ranking from #1 (best) to #9 (worst). Any lists that ignore this format or don't include every Nightwish studio album will be ignored! Any comments to this post with rankings will also be ignored, they must be sent via PM and no revisions! You have until the end of the Judas Priest ranking game. I will do a "last call" when it's about to wrap up.

I want to give folks plenty of notice to revisit any albums they want, but I also want to get as many lists as possible so that we can get a more interesting ranking. If there are albums that you're less familiar with but still want to submit a list, now is your time to revisit those albums. But also if you rank an album last because you don't know it that well, I'm also not going to reject your list. I would rather you participate than not!

The Nightwish discography for your reference:

Angels Fall First
Oceanborn
Wishmaster
Century Child
Once
Dark Passion Play
Imaginaerum
Endless Forms Most Beautiful
Human :||: Nature
 
Mosh said:
Giving this a bump. I have 8 lists so far and would love to see a few more come in before the end of the JP survivor!
@Kalata
@Night Prowler
@Randalf
@Onhell
@KidInTheDark666
@Forostar
Click to expand...
I'm afraid I'm no good here as I don't own the first or last album and wouldn't be able to give a proper ranking. I thought about cheating and asking my brother who is a bigger fan than I, but he's on a similar boat and was of no use to me.
 
LooseCannon said:
If only there was a place you could go to listen to the first and last album that wasn't your personal collection, but alas, an information superhighway is yet to be developed.
Click to expand...
I'm aware that's not an issue. The issue is I know all the other albums like the back of my hand because I've listened to them for years. We are gearing up for the end of the semester at the university, I'm also working on a side project for a tech start up and proof reading some stuff for a friend.... in short... I have no time to listen to the albums critically and make an honest assessment.
 
I guess I can put aside the ridiculous high standards I have for everything except my love life and half ass it. give me EOD.
 
Going to give this one last bump in case anyone wants to send lists. I am going to take a longer gap this time as I’ve had a lot going on this month. I should be able to go back to regular updates around June 10. So you have until then to send lists!
 
Alright folks, thanks for your patience, it's time to begin! First of all, thanks to everybody who participated. This ended up being the highest participation game since Iron Maiden. I didn't realize we had so many Nightwish fans on board!

Our next game will be Metallica. I will make a dedicated thread for that game later on, but feel free to send your lists in advance. I will only be using the main Metallica discography (i.e. no Lulu/Garage Inc/etc). If there's any confusion as to what that all includes, I recommend holding off on sending me lists until I create a thread with a clarified discography. Expect that to begin shortly after Nightwish wraps up (probably July).

With that being said, lets get into Nightwish:

The most noteworthy thing about this game to me was that these lists were all over the place. Our previous games all had clear favorites and clear least favorites, with quite a bit of variance in the middle. In this particular game, there was variance in all aspects of the list. In fact, I really had no idea what the top album would be until I inputted all of the data (it ended up being an album that I was not expecting). Similarly, while the bottom end was a bit more predictable, it was a really close battle for last place (more on that in a second).

To that end, nearly every album had some major support from some users and a lack of enthusiasm from others. All but three albums received at least one #1 ranking, which might be a record for these games. This brings me to the two prediction questions for this game:

1: Only 1 (!) album was ranked both first place and last place by at least one member. Can you guess which album? This album was also one of only three that received a last place ranking at all.

2: Conversely, only 1 (!!) album was not ranked either first or last place. Can you guess that album?

If you have a guess, reply in spoiler tags. Those who guess correctly will get to pick a band for a future ranking game. @Diesel 11 please give everybody else a chance before guessing. :p

Personally, I went off memory for a lot of my list. In comparing my list to others, I don't think I really went far off the beaten path anywhere, but I'm looking forward to seeing how my list will (almost certainly) change by the end. I'll be posting my updated ranking at the end for curiosity sake.

And without further ado, here is our first entry:

1:
2:
3:
4:
5:
6:
7:
8:
9: Angels Fall First

Highest score: 5 (@KiDDo)
Lowest score: 1 (@Diesel 11, @KidInTheDark666, @Night Prowler, @Azas, @MrKnickerbocker, @Iron Taipei)

The least amount of surprises are going to be found at the bottom of the discography. I would say there were only two possible choices for last place, and they both scored pretty close to each other. We'll talk about the other album next time. In the case of Angels specifically, this album's greatest downfall is that it didn't really have much enthusiastic support on any list. Its highest ranking was #5/9, which isn't a bad placement at all but it's the lowest peak for any of Nightwish's albums. That combined with enough last place rankings to prevent a higher score sealed Angel's fate.

The album's biggest flaw is that it really sounds like a demo. It has a low production quality and the vocals are at times very amateurish. Tarja sounds pretty good for the most part but the vocal/harmony arrangements aren't great. Tuomas covers a lot of the male vocal parts and he just doesn't have the vocal power to act as a satisfying counterpart. The spoken word sections are really cheesy, which honestly if you're complaining about cheese you probably shouldn't be listening to Nightwish in the first place, but there are too many of these sections and it gets to be distracting.

Instrumentally, I think of this album as being mostly there but with a couple missing pieces of the puzzle. The riffing is great. It's pretty much classic Nightwish already and the guitar sound is one of the few things that doesn't sound overly demo quality. I miss Marko on bass (not to mention vocals), or just a more active roll for the bass in general. I also think the orchestral arrangements aren't really there yet. There's a lot of synth strings, but it's mostly just texture. The symphonic aspects of Nightwish is what sets them apart from other similar Metal bands, and that element just isn't there yet.

When I compare Angels Fall First to other black sheep debut albums such as the first Dream Theater or Symphony X or Judas Priest, I think Nightwish is much closer to their signature sound at this stage in their career than the other examples. The album certainly has a goofy factor, but I always feel that there is a certain charm that goes along with that. I can appreciate that they're reaching, even if it's going to take a couple albums for it to come out in a more coherent form. I rated the album 2nd to last, personally, so I don't love it, but I have a little bit more patience for what feels like a genuine and ambitious debut album.

@JudasMyGuide
 
Angels Fall First has a few worthwhile moments, but it is a glorified demo. I ranked it dead last and I'm glad it has landed there.

On the positive, the album has some worthwhile instrumentals that definitely inform what the band would become. Tarja sounds alright. The guitars are solid.
Mosh said:
When I compare Angels Fall First to other black sheep debut albums such as the first Dream Theater or Symphony X or Judas Priest, I think Nightwish is much closer to their signature sound at this stage in their career than the other examples. The album certainly has a goofy factor, but I always feel that there is a certain charm that goes along with that. I can appreciate that they're reaching, even if it's going to take a couple albums for it to come out in a more coherent form.
Click to expand...
This is very true. It sounds like Nightwish, just like a very young, inexperienced Nightwish. The overall sonic experience you get on AFF is what you will continue to get with the band (except it will start to sound good).

That said, the songwriting is just really quite bad (and especially the vocals and lyrics). Those other albums you mentioned may be more derivative of their influences, but I'd argue they each have at least one song on them that's better than any songwriting on AFF.

On the truly negative: the lyrics and male vocals are just absolutely atrocious. Tuomas stepping away from the mic is the best thing he ever did for the band.

Mosh said:
1: Only 1 (!) album was ranked both first place and last place by at least one member. Can you guess which album? This album was also one of only three that received a last place ranking at all.

2: Conversely, only 1 (!!) album was not ranked either first or last place. Can you guess that album?
Click to expand...

1. Once

2. Wishmaster
 
I love this album, its only issue is that I love the rest of the band’s discography even more. It’s not as ironed out as they were about to be on the very next release but they gothic sound is cool, the performances are all pretty strong already (barring Tuomas’s vocals), and there are plenty of interesting elements that you can tell are going to be expanded on in future. Hell, the bonus track “A Return to the Sea” even tackles science themes, paving the way for the Floor era going all-in on them.

The one thing I think everyone can agree on is that the band going back and remaking the album was a good choice. Idk if this is common knowledge but Angels Fall First was initially a demo that their label decided to press without the band’s approval. They went back and dropped certain songs (later released as bonus tracks) and added stronger new ones. I think we can all agree that a song like “Once Upon a Troubadour” would have brought down the album a lot. Some of the original acoustic tracks are just so sluggish. Compared to that, the standard version of AFF is really good.

Mosh said:
@Diesel 11 please give everybody else a chance before guessing. :p
Click to expand...
Lol alright I’ll be back tomorrow.
 
I went chronologically in my little marathon, so Angels had a little head start. As I listened more it kept falling through the ranks and ended up at #8. The production hurts a lot and while Tuomas singing is cute (and he sounds pretty okay in his solo parts like the verse of The Carpenter), it adds to the amateurish feel a lot. Elvenpath, Tutankhamen and Know Why the Nightingale Sings are dope, but with the other songs they're still finding their footing. That's charming to me, and I was very reluctant to drop the album spots, but it's hard to pretend the refined albums aren't better.

Predictions:
1. Oceanborn
2. Dark Passion Play
 
Now that I see it, I guess I should have put AFF higher. Thng is, despite it flaws I just don't feel it really deserves the last place. It's still early-era NW, Tarja-era NW and despite it sounding for the most part like the band was recording it at age 16 in sombebody's father's garage, the charm is undeniable.
But then again, that might be just the
JudasMyGuide said:
Tarja-era Magic/Faerie-junkie nostalgia whore
Click to expand...
talking.

Since I already did a write-up on this album, I'll pepper this with quotes from that post, because - why repeat myself?

In general, for the "demo" naysayers
JudasMyGuide said:
Also, every time I start listening to AFF, I’m somewhat taken aback by how good it actually sounds – Tuomas has been always making a great deal out of the fact the album was supposed to be a demo and that it was accepted by the company mostly as-is, but I have a hard time believing that – I have never yet heard a demo that sounded this well, from the sound of the guitars, to the quasi-symphonic elements, to the dynamics, especially the transitions from the quiet to the louder. There must have been some tweaks and additions by a professional in a full-grown studio, sorry, I don’t believe any other narrative.
Click to expand...


But even then, Elvenpath is ridiculously catchy, great riff there, mate, and as a whole the song slaps more than anything that the band's been able to produce in the past - let me see - 13 years or longer. As I wrote some time ago

JudasMyGuide said:
Let us not dwell on how short and forgettable the intro is, but right after we start with a bang, with an absolutely stellar main riff which almost reminds you of 80’s arena rock and honestly belongs among the better „electric guitar-driven ostinatos“ Nightwish ever made. In fact the whole song is written very well, from the riff-based verse, to the prancing pre-chorus and resulting in the „standard power-metal-era Nigthwish gallop“ in the chorus. Even among their other work, which I found out I value rather highly, this song stands out.
Tarja sounds quite a bit different from how we know her, she is immediately recognisable, but her voice has a different, more civil and almost somewhat darker quality, especially in the verses.
Click to expand...

I also admit that horrendous as Tuomas' vocals are - and ESPECIALLY in that song - The Carpenter kinda weirdly grew on me. The melody is rather nice, poignant, very much un-NW-like and despite the vocals sounding worse than dragging a chalkboard over a cat (that's the idiom, right?) I find it strangely beautiful.

Astral Romance has some nice Pink-Floydish opening, cool guitar, I like Tarja's approach here
JudasMyGuide said:
going through this urgent, staccato-ish vocal part (I also love her multi-tracked wails from the second minute onwards – if only they weren’t the background for more Tuomas singing).
Click to expand...

Tutankhamen:
JudasMyGuide said:
Some more Middle-Eastern influences here, resulting in a really killer riff which has almost a certain Celtic influence as well – in fact, it reminds me of Maiden; go listen to Writing on the Wall, the part from 4:04, you’ll see there’s much more common ground covered than one might think.

To top it off, we get possibly the weirdest and most original Tarja vocal lines on the album so far, in the verses at least (the „Treasure…“ chorus is your typical Tarwish sweetness). However, the jumps between the atypical verse and the „usual“ chorus feel really natural and tend to hold my attention during each and every listen.
Click to expand...


Also, it's somewhat unmemorable, but the Lappi sequence has grown on me as well.


In fact, the worst part is still... well... you know what:
JudasMyGuide said:
Nymphomaniac Fantasia

The less is said about this song, the better.

Okay, this probably will not do, so let’s elucidate.

You have heard the lyrics, right?
Now, I want to demonstrate my point, so allow me a wee digression: let’s imagine you want to get angry at a cheating girlfriend and you want to f-bomb her, okay?

So, let’s imagine this set of lyrics:
„Fuck what I said, it don't mean shit now
Fuck the presents, might as well throw 'em out
Fuck all those kisses, they didn't mean jack
Fuck you, you ho, I don't want you back“

Maybe it’s a bit too on the nose, fine, but in general, the lyrics are okay, angry, getting the point across, at least theoretically. Right? Right??

Well, I don’t know if you remember it now, 19 years later, but this was actually a hit song

and… everything about the delivery, the framing, the bloke himself is just wrong.

Instead of sounding like he’s breaking up with his girlfriend because she cheated on him, it sounds more like she was cheating on him openly, then dumped him and now he’s writing an angry retort in his room, trying to picture how it should have happened.

You get my point?
Sometimes quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi. And if that sounds like a double standard… it’s because it is.

Which brings me to Nymphomaniac Fantasia (I swear this is the last fucking time I even write the title) and its lyrics.

Point is, although you might say I have this tendency to be prudish, because of my beliefs (not just religious ones), it’s not completely true, I think there are varieties and levels and good usage… in short I am not against explicit lyrics per se.

But there is no friggin way in this universe of ours where the shy intellectual Tuomas releases publicly lines like „Lick my deepest“ and „Deeper shall bet he wound between your legs“ (and it doesn’t help Tarja is the one to sing it, in fact, it’s probably making it worse) and comes out fine, not sounding like a dirty creep or a frustrated incel.

And beside Tuomas, who is for me the worst person imaginable to be writing this, well, even on its own, if we pictured it written by… don’t know, Nick Cave, it’s still just WRONG.

There is a difference between what you can write and what you can say, but even written I find this to be absolutely terrible. I have read a lot of intimate scenes and sex details in various books, both good and bad, tame and explicit, but this makes me cringe.

Musically, the intro is way too close to the title track on the album to not notice the similar vibe it gives off.

The main part is very run-of-the-mill for them, I don’t hear much musical ideas, no real memorability, it feels like it’s going nowhere. After the intro you get what turns out to be the verse, as the only main part of the song (if there is a chorus, I have yet to find it) and the „Tarja duet“ is a cool idea in its conception, but not in its execution – it’s clunky, under-rehearsed and at times almost sounds off-key. Then we get what I thought was the keyboard interlude, but it’s not, there is no other „lude“ (I know, I know, it’s supposed to be „ludo“) and it just ruins the momentum, including Tarja declaiming the aforementioned cringeworthy lyrics. Ooof.

The outro is much better, with quite nice flute embellishments (is it an actual flute? Sounds somewhat weird to me in my speakers), but it can’t really redeem the song.

Worse than the Carpenter (which I could at least imagine working under different circumstances), I’m giving this abomination of a track 3/10 and I’m being rather generous at that. Sorry.
Click to expand...


Still, give me a single AFF over a million of Human Forms Most Natureful.

Or, in the legendary words of Professor John Ronald Reuel Tolkien

8tmfbs.jpg

(yeah, he really wrote that, in the letter # 98, I checked, would you dare argue with an expert?)



Predictions:
1: Only 1 (!) album was ranked both first place and last place by at least one member. Can you guess which album? This album was also one of only three that received a last place ranking at all.

1718199950316-png.37134
HN.png

2: Conversely, only 1 (!!) album was not ranked either first or last place. Can you guess that album?

Oceanborn?
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top