MUSTAINE: A HEAVY METAL MEMOIR

[edclear]

Got this book from my wife, what a great read, giving a real insight into Dave Mustaine as a person. So many biographies are just a rehash of known stories, happenings, events, but this book gets to the core of what Dave was/is.

Having given up reading the music papers/mags way back in the late 70’s there was so much that I never knew… never knew he was an alcoholic and a junkie too… never knew the extent of violence involved... never knew the problems within the various line up’s… never knew he was into martial arts… never knew he nearly lost the use of his left hand… never knew he was married with 2 kids… never knew he became a committed christian.

His problems with Metallica are well documented and no new light is shed here, but it’s really the why of these problems that he’s yet to address. Sure he says he’s getting over the Metallica rift, “life’s too short”, and has got his drinking and drug use under control, but that isn’t really uprooting the source of the outgrowth.

I mean, here’s an intelligent enough guy who’s gone thru decades of self abuse, projecting the source of that onto others and then he makes a decision to end it all while in re-hab. But suddenly that decision is transformed into God.  It wasn’t a god, it was simply his own decision to end his folly, to get his act together that lead to the change within himself. Just as it was he who made the decision to get his hand back in working order after crushing his radial nerve.

There was actually a funny/sad story about Jon Nödtveidt of Dissection who claimed to be a satanist. Seriously, would you be bothered by a creep like that? Dave was just a bit freaked out coz this guy had done time for being an accessory to murder and was now making threats directed at Dave. Now this is Dave, post Christian phase. Probably pre-christian influence Dave would have kicked his ass and thought nothing of it. That’s my problem with belief, with religion, it makes people weak.

I’m not saying violence is an answer, but if some delusional guy is coming after you, there’s no point in hiding. Monsters never go away until you face the monster… face to face. I’ve no time for these satanists, they’re just weak little brats who crave power and try to intimidate people with witchcraft or magick. Dave is gullible enough to think that he actually dabbled in the occult as once he put a hex on a bully and the guy was involved in a car crash. A one off isn’t dabbling, but it does reveal much about Dave’s personality, his need for control, vengeance, superstition, etc.

I’ll still listen to Megadeth, but hopefully he’ll see thru the folly of believing in anything other than himself. The bible is just a book written by men who sought to guide people in a certain direction but who employed various very devious means to ensure that direction was a directive. I know Dave seems pretty relaxed about his new found christian god, but it just seems to me to be another addiction rather than an intelligent resolution of his deep seated problems.

Still well worth reading.

 

[SinisterMinisterX]

Recovery from drug addiction is something non-addicts will never understand. I'll simply say you couldn't be more wrong. I won't bother with specifics, because it doesn't appears you'd be interested - but as a hardcore atheist myself, I absolutely assure you that you're dead wrong.

 

[Crimson Idol]

From what I understand, one of the main things about the 12 step program is acknowledging that you are not responsible for your condition, it is a higher power.  I find that to be rather ridiculous, I think the "you are not responsible" is half true. By which I mean that you are not responsible for the way your body is wired, different people are succeptable to different things, what will get one person addicted will not get another etc. Addictions can also come about for many reasons, something you never found yourself addicted to can suddenly become a crutch when your life changes dramatically. So you do not have total control over things no, but it is ultimately your responsibility to get through it.

In that regard, if people find that attributing it to a 'god' helps them, then so be it. Whatever works at the end of the day, I think it often goes out of hand/out of context and they start using it as a crutch for everything good/bad but if it gets them to a more comfortable state of mind then good for them. (So really... AA is a christian recruiting agency! Just a little more subtle than the mormons!)

Over coming addictions of any type are hard, for some harder than others. I have not had any full blown addictions so I know I cannot understand. In the same vein I wish people commenting on my life would realise they cannot understand why I am the way I am when they haven't had the same situations... even those who have, well, when looking back you tend to see things differently - it's only while you are going through it that you really understand other peoples plights, and at the end of the day... every single person is different so you will not even feel the same then.

I hope to never have any sort of addiction in that manner, as I struggle to cope with emotionally based 'addictions', I don't think a chemical one would really agree with me either

 

[mckindog]

Recovery from drug addiction is something non-addicts will never understand. I'll simply say you couldn't be more wrong. I won't bother with specifics, because it doesn't appears you'd be interested - but as a hardcore atheist myself, I absolutely assure you that you're dead wrong.

I am interested, if you'd care to share. I have very little experience in that area.

 

[SinisterMinisterX]

I am interested, if you'd care to share. I have very little experience in that area.

I'll do so with this response...

---

From what I understand, one of the main things about the 12 step program is acknowledging that you are not responsible for your condition, it is a higher power.   I find that to be rather ridiculous, I think the "you are not responsible" is half true. By which I mean that you are not responsible for the way your body is wired, different people are succeptable to different things, what will get one person addicted will not get another etc. Addictions can also come about for many reasons, something you never found yourself addicted to can suddenly become a crutch when your life changes dramatically. So you do not have total control over things no, but it is ultimately your responsibility to get through it.

In that regard, if people find that attributing it to a 'god' helps them, then so be it. Whatever works at the end of the day, I think it often goes out of hand/out of context and they start using it as a crutch for everything good/bad but if it gets them to a more comfortable state of mind then good for them. (So really... AA is a christian recruiting agency! Just a little more subtle than the mormons!)

Over coming addictions of any type are hard, for some harder than others. I have not had any full blown addictions so I know I cannot understand. In the same vein I wish people commenting on my life would realise they cannot understand why I am the way I am when they haven't had the same situations... even those who have, well, when looking back you tend to see things differently - it's only while you are going through it that you really understand other peoples plights, and at the end of the day... every single person is different so you will not even feel the same then.

I hope to never have any sort of addiction in that manner, as I struggle to cope with emotionally based 'addictions', I don't think a chemical one would really agree with me either

Recovery programs never say that you are not responsible for your actions. If you're looking at 12-step programs, steps 8 and 9 are devoted to righting the wrongs one has done. (Also see the Dream Theater song "Repentance".)

Most people in 12-step programs do believe in a God, just like most of the general population. It is not, however, a Christian organization. AA goes to great lengths to emphasize this. They advise people to find the strength in their own already existing faith to help them. It is true that many AA groups have some Xian traditions like saying the Lord's Prayer, but non-Xians at the meeting just stay quiet respectfully for a minute while the believers pray. I stayed quiet like that for years.

If you ever read the actual 12 steps, take a look at 3 and 11. Those are the steps which contain the word "God". In both cases, it appears as the phrase "God as we understood him" and the italics are in the original. AA wants people to find their own higher power, and does not recommend any specific "god". I was heavily involved with AA for eleven years as an atheist, and no one ever argued or tried to push religion at me.

AA also knows that most people view using faith as a crutch, and religion doesn't work for everyone. An entire chapter of the AA textbook is devoted to addressing those concerns. Again, the response is to find your own higher power. I'll tell you something you'd hear at an AA meeting as a newcomer: "Your best thinking got you here, to AA. We know the way out if you want it." So the usual "higher power" for atheists in AA is the AA group itself: the collective advice of many recovered drunks. Until the drunk learns to think straight, following that advice is indeed the best idea for someone who is at the end of their rope.

AA does act as a crutch for the newcomer when they need it, but good AA groups don't encourage that. A good group will bring a newcomer through the 12 steps and then "give them their wings", the unofficial AA graduation. Most people who do this then stay involved with AA for a while (often years), both to help others and because you see your new sober friends at the meetings. Any person with more than a year sober who's still using AA as a crutch is doing it wrong.

AA also has one other custom that may be relevant here, and that's the AA use of language. We put everything in drinking terms, so someone talking about their heroin addiction doesn't freak out the normal drunk. I could mean "I was speedballing" but at the meeting I'd say "I was drinking hard." Likewise, talk about the "higher power" or "God" uses those terms as simple shorthand for whatever each person's god is. Rather than freak out the Xians with my atheism and vice versa, there's an agreement to say "higher power" and stay away from religious dogma.

So when you read someone's writing about AA, they're often going to use this code because we're accustomed to it from meetings. It gets so we think in those terms when AA comes up. Knowing this, I read stories about AA and I can see the code. I don't even see the words anymore, it's just blonde, brunette, redhead... no wait that's something else. Anyway, I haven't read the Mustaine thing so I can't judge, but I wonder if some of this "AA code" could be there and confusing the non-drunks.

 

[mckindog]

Thank you

 

[Taker]

Well said, SMX.

 

[Perun]

I can't comment on the addict thing, but I would like to point out something else from the original post:

I’ve no time for these satanists, they’re just weak little brats who crave power and try to intimidate people with witchcraft or magick.

You say you despise Christians, yet you repeat all their clichés. Namely, you throw together Satanism with witchcraft and magick, as if they had anything to do with each other - and it is precisely this sort of generalisation that makes people who adhere to these ideas strong, because they are being offered a target for attack. You are offering them arguments such as "they don't understand us, so they must not be taken seriously" on a silver plate. The association of esoteric cults, such as witchcraft and magick, with Satanism, is a Christian construction to disqualify anything they don't like as "evil". I don't have any particular sympathy for self-declared wiccans, druids or whatever else there is out there, but I do think it is necessary to know what you are dealing with.

 

[edclear]

Recovery from drug addiction is something non-addicts will never understand. I'll simply say you couldn't be more wrong. I won't bother with specifics, because it doesn't appears you'd be interested - but as a hardcore atheist myself, I absolutely assure you that you're dead wrong.

Sorry, but I never said it was easy for a drug addict nor any form of addict to get beyond their root cause of addiction, I thought I implied that quite clearly by what I wrote. My point was that Dave's own decision was his decision, yet he transposed that onto a God. To me that is a serious error as he's simply replacing one addiction with another. Obviously it's better to be drug free, able to drink alcohol in moderation, stick with his wife rather than having sex with any female who lays down for him. He knows that himself, as he says so in the book. It's just the process of influence which has lead him to where he is, his interpretation of events and the consequences of such that I see as harmful for himself. Hence the bit about being scared by some guy who thinks satan is real and ready to do his bidding. I do feel for addicts, but replacing one addiction with another is not really the way forward, only masking the actual problem. Every problem can be resolved within oneself without further conflict, fear.

---

I can't comment on the addict thing, but I would like to point out something else from the original post:

You say you despise Christians, yet you repeat all their clichés. Namely, you throw together Satanism with witchcraft and magick, as if they had anything to do with each other - and it is precisely this sort of generalisation that makes people who adhere to these ideas strong, because they are being offered a target for attack. You are offering them arguments such as "they don't understand us, so they must not be taken seriously" on a silver plate. The association of esoteric cults, such as witchcraft and magick, with Satanism, is a Christian construction to disqualify anything they don't like as "evil". I don't have any particular sympathy for self-declared wiccans, druids or whatever else there is out there, but I do think it is necessary to know what you are dealing with.

Excuse me, where did I say I dispise christians? As for your "cliches". If we keep things in context you'll see that it was no blase unfounded statement, but a fact. Satanists are christians and cannot be otherwise, and yes, they do practise witchcraft/magick. That is not a generalization but an actual part of their belief system. Obviously you get wiccans who practise witchcraft/magick, just as you get chaos magicians who practise witchcraft/magick, just as you get christians who practise witchcraft/magick. I completely understand a satanist, there is so little to understand there! They are actually self mocking fools who think they're being real devils by mocking christianity and the christian concept of a god. But to believe in satan is to believe in the christian fable. It's like Richard Dawkins who claims to be an atheist and yet adheres to christian tradition by praying, etc. It's nonsense, bringing only shame upon himself and a question concerning his belief of there being no god.

 

[Crimson Idol]

Thankyou, SMX.

I have no experience of the 12step program myself it's just my interpretations/understandings from things/accounts I have read or seen on TV etc (which of course at not going to pain the full picture). Not in a mood  to go through it with a fine tooth comb but I know theres some quotes about it in the Heroin Diaries, here are the quick ones I can find.

Nikki: "Bob Timmons and Doc McGhee put me in rehab [...] I lasted three days. One nurse kept talking to me about god"
Bob Timmons (Drug counsellor): "Addictions are just symptoms of underlying issues"
Bob Timmons "Part of the twelve-step program for curing addiction is accepting there is a greater power in the world than you. It doesn't have to be god, it can be anything"

I'd forgotten the last one in there, and I know theres some more there somewhere about "They asked me to get on my knee's and pray to god for help" or something.


For the record, I'm certainly not trying to bash such things or claim them to be anything they're not, I've not gone through any addictions of that type, and can only go on what I have gained from other sources. I agree completely that you cannot understand without having been there yourself.

 

[Perun]

If we keep things in context you'll see that it was no blase unfounded statement, but a fact. Satanists are christians and cannot be otherwise, and yes, they do practise witchcraft/magick.

Really. And what is your source for this fact?

 

[Yax]

As far as I know (not claiming I have any extensive knowledge on the subject) is that actual satanism is, contrary to popular belief, unrelated to christianity. It's a mixture of different philosophies, ideologies etc , but not christian per se. The "Satan is stronger than your weak God, hail satan *sacrificial rite, kills victim, hero goes NOOOOOO, bitch-slaps the satanic ring leader etc" is more of a fictional literature and hollywood thing. "Lucifer-satan" is merely ONE branch of satanism. There are countless others that's totally unrelated to Lucifer.

 

[Mosh]

Excuse me, where did I say I dispise christians? As for your "cliches". If we keep things in context you'll see that it was no blase unfounded statement, but a fact. Satanists are christians and cannot be otherwise, and yes, they do practise witchcraft/magick.

Christianity: "a monotheistic system of beliefs and practices based on the Old Testament and the teachings of Jesus as embodied in the New Testament and emphasizing the role of Jesus as savior"

How are Satanists Christian?


Also, how is religion an addiction? That makes no sense to me.

 

[mckindog]

I believe he was saying that since Satan is part of the Judeo-Christian theology, to believe in Satan you must also believe in Christ.
There are more knowledgeable people than me on this board about this topic, but my understanding is that the concept of "a supreme evil being" existed in faiths separately from Christianity. Satan is the most convenient label for Satanists to adopt, since it's the most prevalent one in western society.

As for religion as an addiction, while that is impossible in the physical sense, it is certainly possible for individuals to lose themselves — become addicted to — the dogma.
Isn't that what Dio's lyrics in Bible Black are speaking to?

 

[edclear]

Really. And what is your source for this fact?

Those who espouse and practise the satanic belief. There are those who take such a belief in the literal sense, and there are those who take the metaphorical stance, it matters not the intrepretation if one takes up the actual practise of summoning a power of assumed darkness, of evil. Satanists who practise magick are real in the sense that their belief is such that if they perform whatever ritual in the name of satan then X shall result. Just to clarify, I am not saying that by declaring oneself to be a satanist that one automatically practises the belief system completely. Just as Dave has spoken out against extremist christians. At the end of the day there are so many sub-divisions of satanism as there are of christianity, however there is a certain fixed core belief.

As I said, if you read within the context of that written rather than take off on a tangent then maybe we'll have a dialogue. The guy was a practising satanist. It matters not whether I say, what nonsense. He believed in it just as Dave now believes in Jesus as saviour. The whole point was that Dave needn't have taken that route of unreality, he could have gotten over his problems without creating further issues within himself.

 

[Mosh]

I believe he was saying that since Satan is part of the Judeo-Christian theology, to believe in Satan you must also believe in Christ.
There are more knowledgeable people than me on this board about this topic, but my understanding is that the concept of "a supreme evil being" existed in faiths separately from Christianity. Satan is the most convenient label for Satanists to adopt, since it's the most prevalent one in western society.

OK, I get that.

As for religion as an addiction, while that is impossible in the physical sense, it is certainly possible for individuals to lose themselves — become addicted to — the dogma.
Isn't that what Dio's lyrics in Bible Black are speaking to?

Right, I kind of misread his post I think, after reading over it again. At first I thought he was saying that everyone who follows religion is addicted to it.

 

[edclear]

As far as I know (not claiming I have any extensive knowledge on the subject) is that actual satanism is, contrary to popular belief, unrelated to christianity. It's a mixture of different philosophies, ideologies etc , but not christian per se. The "Satan is stronger than your weak God, hail satan *sacrificial rite, kills victim, hero goes NOOOOOO, bitch-slaps the satanic ring leader etc" is more of a fictional literature and hollywood thing. "Lucifer-satan" is merely ONE branch of satanism. There are countless others that's totally unrelated to Lucifer.

Yep, there can't be satanists without christianity just as there can't be christianity without judaism. They are all one. The actual origin of satan was not that he was a bad guy, just a servant of god, testing humans for weakness on god's behalf. Belief is about intrepretations, about corruption, about manipulation. Satan has changed thru-out the ages in accord with those who would use such for whatever purpose other than the original. It's like the really ancient beliefs of pagnism as its known. They didn't really believe in an actual physical god of thunder sitting in the clouds, or a god of rain, or a goddess of sex, etc. They knew these were just representations and had a certain usefulness. Others however did believe differently and imposed such belief via brutal force.

---

Christianity: "a monotheistic system of beliefs and practices based on the Old Testament and the teachings of Jesus as embodied in the New Testament and emphasizing the role of Jesus as savior"

How are Satanists Christian?


Also, how is religion an addiction? That makes no sense to me.

Satanists are christians in the sense that they have to believe in jesus, in the christain god, etc, to rebel against such, to do whatever their silly notions demand they do. It's like good and bad, you just can't have one without the other. Anyone with any insight or actual understanding of religion can see that it is all unfounded nonsense and simply belief. Belief is just thought thinking it knows something. Belief is just make believe - delusion.

Religion is addiction in the sense that it is a psychological need of an idealistic projection of what is good. This idea must be conformed to, must be in control. If circumstances are not in accord with the belief of the religion there is panic, fear, the need to make circumstances obey the belief of the religion. Every addiction is obsession. That is the very nature of the personal mind and every externalization of such.

 

[Forostar]

Anyone with any insight or actual understanding of religion can see that it is all unfounded nonsense and simply belief. Belief is just thought thinking it knows something. Belief is just make believe - delusion.

Anyone with any insight or actual understanding of belief can see that belief is not simple. Belief is not just thinking (what's wrong with thinking anyway?). Belief is not just make believe or delusion.

Belief can be a very powerful thing and not per se unfounded nonsense. Belief doesn't just (only) mean believing in a God or Satan, or any kind of religion. People can believe in all kinds of different things. In nature, in science.
In people. In music.

 

[Yax]

Yep, there can't be satanists without christianity just as there can't be christianity without judaism.

The point of my post was to shed light on the countless branches of Satanism UNRELATED TO CHRISTIANITY.

As far as the Lucifer and the Serpent (you know, the serpent, Adam and Eve, apple etc? That serpent = Satan) branch go, you are right.  Those two are the ones related to Christianity. The rest do not require any christian faith whatsoever, because they aren't about any god. The LaVey (or whatever his name is?) satanism for instance is about individuality - Deity free, Then there are others celebrating inner darkness etc - Also deity free. Satanism does not require Christian faith. The Lucifer branch of Satanism does. Not the large number of other variations.

Compare Satanism to, say, Nu Metal. Nu Metal is really a tag where you in the early 2000's put Metal bands that didn't belong anywhere else - The bands themselves were vastly different from eachother. They were just lumped together. It wasn't really a genre based on musical similarities.

 

[edclear]

Anyone with any insight or actual understanding of belief can see that belief is not simple. Belief is not just thinking (what's wrong with thinking anyway?). Belief is not just make believe or delusion.

Belief can be a very powerful thing and not per se unfounded nonsense. Belief doesn't just (only) mean believing in a God or Satan, or any kind of religion. People can believe in all kinds of different things. In nature, in science.
In people. In music.

I never said belief can't be powerful, nor completely useless. When writing on these boards we make fairly short statemnets, these are obviously not all encompassing, but I do try to distill the very essence of what I mean. Obviously belief is extremely powerful (for some). Let's look at some examples.

Wars occur due to belief... My god is greater than your god and you will submit to the real god or be punished. They have oil and we really need that stuff.
Fights with friends occur due to belief... He was coming on to my girl. When in reality Peter was just talking and then he and  Patrica began dancing, it was in a club afterall.
Neighbours fight because of belief... Mary tell Martha that she heard Joan say John was having an affair with Jessica. So John's wife Mary isn't too pleased, confronts John, who tells it as it was. I said I had an affray with Jessica. Mary confronts Joan and asks her to pay attention before spreading lies. Lies screams Joan, I know what I heard. And so on and so on.

So yeah, belief can be very powerful and very destructive. It can obviously be put to good use such as developing a new skill... I know I can do this and I see myself doing it.

Is belief necessary, not at all. I can learn a new skill simply by deciding to do it. But wait, is that decision born of belief. Not necessarily. I can simply be due to whatever the presented  information is. It's like learning a fact... Fire is hot, we need no belief there.

Is belief anything other than thought, not at all. All belief is thought as it is the acceptance of that which is not readily known to be. If you know, you need no belief.

So what is thought? Thought is multifold: words, images, feelings, memory.

Is belief not just make believe/delusion? Again if we take any example of belief from the beliefs of religion to those of science we can easily see that indeed all belief is just make believe/delusional. No one can prove there is or is not a god, no one it's impossible. Impossible you may say. Consider it.

You're quite correct, people do believe in allsorts, hence the troubles in the world. Even such a simple thing as music ends in arguments, physical fights, murder... Iron Maiden are better than the Sex Pistols. It's so bloody stupid, completely missing the point of what music actually is and more so the process of perception.

---

The point of my post was to shed light on the countless branches of Satanism UNRELATED TO CHRISTIANITY.

As far as the Lucifer and the Serpent (you know, the serpent, Adam and Eve, apple etc? That serpent = Satan) branch go, you are right.  Those two are the ones related to Christianity. The rest do not require any christian faith whatsoever, because they aren't about any god. The LaVey (or whatever his name is?) satanism for instance is about individuality - Deity free, Then there are others celebrating inner darkness etc - Also deity free. Satanism does not require Christian faith. The Lucifer branch of Satanism does. Not the large number of other variations.

Compare Satanism to, say, Nu Metal. Nu Metal is really a tag where you in the early 2000's put Metal bands that didn't belong anywhere else - The bands themselves were vastly different from eachother. They were just lumped together. It wasn't really a genre based on musical similarities.

I think we're maybe bypassing one another here and there. Satanism has become something very different to what is was 100 years ago, indeed since LaVey, it has splintered very diversely. I wasn't saying satanists have a christian faith, but a belief in christianity and all that goes with that. Even satan and lucifer were seperate ideas which have become merged via a simple misunderstanding and a certain amount of deliberation on the part of certain people.

Perhaps I should have stated exactly what branch of satanistic belief Nödtveidt was involved with, but thought such detail unnecessary within the general context. We could as you've pointed out spend hours detailing the differences, but what's the pointwhen a simple term as used by the person himself will suffice?