Moderator announcement: post deletion and personal messages

Shadow

Shadow

Deluxe Edition
Staff member
Dear members,

as you may or may not yet have noticed, we have introduced a few changes to this board. These include that regular members may no longer delete or lock entire threads and that they may no longer delete their own posts. Please also note that there is no longer a limit to the amount of messages in your PM inbox.

This is the result of lengthy consideration among the moderator squad and administrator. Generally, we believe that deletion of posts and threads and locking of threads is a moderator action. We have seen abuse of this option by members in the past, one example being thousand_suns who used to delete his posts and re-post them to make them seem "new" and attract more attention to them.

We also have seen numerous instances in which members have made posts they later regretted posting and deleted them altogether, which however only caused confusion and irritation with other members. Likewise, this has not made what was posted undone, and has in no way helped to reduce any tension caused. We sincerely hope that this will help members put more consideration into what they post to keep the climate in this forum positive and friendly. We are, after all, here to make friends, not enemies.

Finally, there have been a series of complaints about missing threads and decreasing post count which have no explanation. We are hoping this alteration will work towards resolving this issue once and for all.

Double-posts will of course be deleted by moderators, and if you believe a post you made should be deleted, you can always ask a moderator to do so. Please note that unless they are spam threads or threads deemed really worthless and stupid, no threads will be deleted. We have seen some valuable and interesting threads disappear in the past, and do not want this to happen again.

Thanks for your attention and understanding,
the Moderator Squad
 
We get no end of complaints about vanishing post counts. We're hoping this fixes the issue.
 
A lenghty consideration for this enforced, rigid, bureaucratic and intolerant measurement? That's good to know at least.

I praise the one who might have had his doubts. At least someone understands the non-malevolent meaning of regretting something, and trying to repare something. I dislike the way people get stigmatized in this opening post.

Shadow said:
We also have seen numerous instances in which members have made posts they later regretted posting and deleted them altogether, which however only caused confusion and irritation with other members. Likewise, this has not made what was posted undone, and has in no way helped to reduce any tension caused.
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It is really a suggestive and incorrect thing to say that deleting something cannot make something undone. When known something has been deleted, that action alone already marks the good intent. Recently, Eddies Wingman proved that he later responded to me in a tolerant manner, when I explained why I deleted my post. No permanent harm done.

Shadow said:
We sincerely hope that this will help members put more consideration into what they post to keep the climate in this forum positive and friendly. We are, after all, here to make friends, not enemies.
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Again a suggestive remark, trying to propose that people who did this were trying to make enemies. To repare one's own mistake (no one is perfect!) is actually just trying to prevent things from getting worse.

This whole opening post has some condemning disrespectful tone in it, and it continues the trend of "Let's all have a nice time and agree about everything, and better beware: if you do something wrong, that's highly unwanted, even if you realize it yourself: you can not make it undone anymore."

Travis_AKA_fonzbear2000 said:
That's fine by me. Also, if you post something that you regret, you can always edit it and put "nevermind" or something like that.
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That indeed sounds like a good advice. I appreciate this but still, in the opinion of the mods the tension won't be reduced by it.  :down:
 
Didn't like that either. Despite the fact that I rarely delete my posts, I do like to be able to.
Not being able to delete your thread is somehow understandable, but not being able to deleted your own mere post, is sad.
 
Well, first I was happy (I had some own troubles with people deleting posts on one of my forums), but Forostar's post calmed me a bit :-)

But nevertheless, who cares about the post count, remove the functionality entirely :-) I believe it does not say that a person with a greater post count is somehow better or what. Actually, it could lead to meaningless posts to increase the post count (like this post I'm writing right now :-)
 
Will-I-Am said:
Didn't like that either. Despite the fact that I rarely delete my posts, I do like to be able to.
Not being able to delete your thread is somehow understandable, but not being able to deleted your own mere post, is sad.
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There's no need to delete any post. You can edit it, just like Travis said.
 
People removing posts is unnecessary. The moderators generally only do it in times of extreme need, such as spam. Even with racist, homophobic, sexist comments, we're more likely to let the post stand, or edit out extreme language, than delete it. There is exactly 0 need for people to remove posts, especially when it will hurt the discourse later when people try to catch up. This is less about post count and more about ensuring the continual flow of the forum.

We are also concerned about the effect deleting posts have on the moderation process. We have had some problem with new users posting racist or otherwise insulting posts in manners that were not welcome. I'm not talking about anyone here, as those posters were removed. But we did envision a situation where a post is made and removed before a moderator can get to it. As you may imagine, this is part of the reason why we expanded the moderation team to five members.

If you have said something and you feel the need to delete the entire post, you probably shouldn't have said it to begin with. Edit your post, or post a clarification. We're all adults here, or more accurately, we're all mature here, and we will understand if someone said something too far. We always have in the past.

This discussion has been around since the thousand_suns days, and the only reason the rule wasn't enacted at that point was because we wanted to fuck with you guys a bit with the Epic Forum Prank. I can appreciate that some people don't like the change, but it's been a long time coming. As we've said, we are hopeful this ends some problems we've had and forestalls others in the future.

We are sorry for any inconvenience, but this is how it is going to be. Any concerns can be directed to the mods or Jon.
 
I'll wade in here briefly. I was very surprised to learn that we were missing posts, and similarly so when I realised SMF is configured to let users delete topics and posts. Part of starting or continuing a discussion is contributing to it... if you can delete those contributions, it makes the experience worse for everyone, as they can't follow the thread of discussion properly. Even more so in the cases where entire discussions are lost because the person who started the topic decides to remove it.

Editing has similar problems, although obviously there should be a grace period for people to fix obvious problems (spelling, grammar, etc.) or re-think an idea in the light of the discussion immediately following it. A sensible idea in these cases is to allow editing for a pre-defined amount of time (hour, day etc.) and then prevent editing too. This board software doesn't allow it, so I'd rather err on the cautious side and let people edit their posts. As you've noted above though, this does mean someone could go and remove all of their contributions to a thread by editing them to blank messages.. it's not ideal, and I'd hope people doing this could see how it negatively affects other people reading the thread after that point.

Cheers,
Jon
 
SinisterMinisterX said:
There's no need to delete any post. You can edit it, just like Travis said.
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Whew!  That's a relief.  When I read this last night, I assumed as much.  But reading it today, I was under the impression that edits were not possible.  I constantly make edits, as I tend to type straight onto the thread without developing the thought elsewhere.  This results in many typos and grammatical errors, so I fix and fix after.  These new restrictions will not convince me to think more carefully though, sorry.  :D

I'm glad that whole thread deleting is gone.  Sometimes good posts are lost that way.

Also I do not agree with Forostar, that deleting a thread or post (that has been seen) shows the best way to express regret.  Deleting a regretful post or thread tends to imply that one is sweeping problems under a rug.  Once a post has been seen and read, it has been seen and read.  It cannot be undone.  This does not mean that any harm made cannot be undone.  That's what apologies are for.
 
@Genghis:
I don't mean that removing a post always means to show regret towards someone else. Sometimes I want to remove something because I find that tactically better, and there's a chance that a post is removed before someone else has read it. If someone has seen it (and I don't know that), and doesn't say anything, then I don't feel guilty either to remove it.

You say: The reading can't be undone. Could you explain what is so important about that? The point is the impact of a post, and the knowledge that the author has retrieved it for a reason.  

Important note in our reasoning here: the reading can't be undone either when a post is edited, instead of deleted.

Genghis Khan said:
This does not mean that any harm made cannot be undone.  That's what apologies are for.
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That I do find important. When someone shows he is hurt, apologies could be very relieving. When someone doesn't show anything and/or the poster didn't have a clue, then there's an entire different story.
 
What I don't understand is your disdain for rules and regulation. This is a simple message board, yet you are quick to call the moderators "control freaks." I can't imagine what you call your government. I find all our rules fair and balanced with a balance of power (5 moderators) to prevent abuses.
 
READ my post again, where do I say I don't care for your arguments? PLEASE point it out. If not enlighten me instead of bitch. Put your emotions aside for ONE second if you can and answer clearly and rationally...
 
Whenever the moderators take action you are quick to put them down, and this was no exception.
 
That's not entirely true. I respect the mods (the "control freaks" was said in a very different topic), the difference is that I am not a sheep who has to agree with everything. This is no monastery. Further: I have no Godly power, and will accept these changes. Do not fear my words. Do not make them terribly important, after all I'm just a member who comments.

If the rules say we need to eat apples (edit a post) instead of pears (delete a post), that's OK. I only felt that the reasoning behind this change was brought quite negative. Therefore I decided to react.

I'd appreciate it if you would judge the content of what I have posted in this thread, instead of increasing the negative picture of me, and immediately say that I'm bitching when I only express my idea that you haven't (cared to) read what I said and rather focus on the point that I've said something.
 
I did not mean to increase a negative picture of you, if it came across that way, I apologize. Thank you for clarifying.
 
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