Mental Health Thread
- Thread starter JudasMyGuide
- Start date
A little late, but I'll tell you why I said that.
Mental health is a health issue. It should be treated the same way as physical health. I.e., "I'm having funny thoughts" should be dealt with the same way as "my skin has a funny colour there" or "there's a funny noise in my stomach" - if it is a persisting problem, you should not look on the internet for help. You should not look for ideas or theories about what it might be that is wrong with you. This can be dangerous.
There are professionals who are educated to treat you for a reason. There are methods to analyse what is wrong with someone which are not available to some random bloke like you and me, and especially not over the internet. That's why I didn't offer an alternative theory. Saap has a serious problem, this is apparent from many posts here, and he should not be listening to theories, but seek professional help, and that is the only thing he should be hearing from us.
Onhell
Infinite Dreamer
Thank you for the explanation. For the most part, I agree. But everyone is assuming the worst, suicidal thoughts, crimes and whatnot. I'd like to me more optimistic and think it's a personal problem that isn't easy to talk about. I'm not any bloke on the internet. I have A LOT of personal experience and some profesional experience having worked at a domestic violence shelter and a behavioral health clinic. If they're talking... It's a good thing. It's when they don't that you have to worry. I'll respond to the rest of the post tomorrow.
If you've been following Saap's posts for a while, especially if you've known him for years, it's pretty obvious that he's not just having some crap happening to him. He needs a doctor.
Lamia020281
Educated Fool
I have done University courses on mental health, and I have an OCD type of mindset myself. I would say it also depends on how severe the symptoms are. For less severe cases, you don't always need professional help. Talking to people, writing a journal, trying to figure out your problem and possible constructive solutions, googling if it doesn't add too much distress, learning to accept some traits as a part of your personality can be good ways to deal with it. My OCD was worse when I was in high school, but dealing with the situation myself and learning to cope with it so well that my OCD traits haven't bothered me too much since then, increased my confidence and made me feel good, because I was able to help myself. However, if the symptoms cause a lot of distress and suffering, or prevent from doing important things in everyday life, I would definitely recommend professional help (see a doctor or a therapist), sooner rather than later.
Onhell
Infinite Dreamer
I don't know anyone here, including you. Who we are on here is who we choose to share. I've been a member here for like 14, 15 years and people come and people go. But even those that have stayed I would never be arrogant enough to claim I "know" them. I don't.
As for Saap, what he has chosen to share. Whether dreams or here is very personal, that's very brave, I know enough he knows he needs a doctor and he has stated seeing some in the past, he knows how and where to get that type of help. I stand by everything I've said.
Magnus
Pica Serdica
Don't wanna discuss @Saapanael in the 3rd person so:
Saapy, please try to appreciate what you already got. You're alive, young, and healthy. You don't live in the Estonian Soviet Socialist Republic. You have unprecedented access to places, info and people. You have quite a lot of time on your hands, apparently. Nothing is ever perfect, nor will it be, nor can it be.
Shit I start sounding like a Christian preacher. Funny it was a newcomer, @Tailgunner77 , who already sent you the most concise message: never surrender.
Saapy, please try to appreciate what you already got. You're alive, young, and healthy. You don't live in the Estonian Soviet Socialist Republic. You have unprecedented access to places, info and people. You have quite a lot of time on your hands, apparently. Nothing is ever perfect, nor will it be, nor can it be.
Shit I start sounding like a Christian preacher. Funny it was a newcomer, @Tailgunner77 , who already sent you the most concise message: never surrender.
Course he knows no shit about assholes but that only shows nobody's perfect
Tailgunner77
Educated Fool
Hey Saap ROCK N'ROLL!!. stay well!!
Black Abyss Babe
I live for my dreams and a pocket full of gold
And also, don't let anyone tell you that the person you really are isn't valid. Anyone who suggests that is talking bollocks - trust me, I'm speaking from bitter personal experience here.
Black Abyss Babe
I live for my dreams and a pocket full of gold
I just found this excerpt from an interview with Bruce - apparently some doctor tried to medicate Austin for ADHD when he was 5 and Bruce wouldn't have it. The when he was 11 he was found to have a "verbal reasoning age" of 21:
https://www.vintageheavymetal.com/article/bruce-dickinson-big-pharma-kids/
Near to the end of the piece Bruce has this to say:
https://www.vintageheavymetal.com/article/bruce-dickinson-big-pharma-kids/
Near to the end of the piece Bruce has this to say:
This is something I can totally relate to ...
Onhell
Infinite Dreamer
My brother had ADD as a kid. Doctor told my mom she could medicate him or be on him like stink on poop. She placed him in multiple sports and watched him like a hawk at home so he would do his homework. Both him and my mom tell the story that she would leave for a second to get something, come back, and find him playing with his pencil pretending it was an airplane... He grew out of it. Others aren't so lucky.
Black Abyss Babe
I live for my dreams and a pocket full of gold
I think most of us were like that though, when we were kids. Concentrating on schoolwork wasn't high on our list of priorities. Also being able to contrue the pencil as an aeroplane shows imagination, which can be put to good use.
I think Bruce is probably right, 5 years old is too early to decide there's "something wrong". And everyone's brain works differently.
Lamia020281
Educated Fool
From what I know, ADHD/ADD are different in different people. Some kids benefit from the medication, others are better off without them. Sometimes I find people who clearly have it, would benefit from having a diagnosis. My brother I believe is one of them. Back when he was a kid, nobody here was diagnosed with ADHD. Both him and me believe it would have made his life easier, had he and the people around him known a reason why he behaved the way he did.
Onhell
Infinite Dreamer
Remember that a diagnosis or illness depends on the severity. When I read one of my brothers psych books when I was 13 I had every mental disorder literally in the book. "I have that! I do that!" until he pointed out it is only a disorder if it prevents you from having a normal life. The ocd person who can't leave the house unless they lock and unlock the door 6 times, not 5 nor 7... 6. The bipolar with constant mood swings over literally spilt milk, etc. So yes, we all pretended our pencil was an airplane as kids, but did that prevent you from completing a prescribed task like homework or cleaning your room or simply going from one room to another...
That's the way it is with all MI. There is no one answer. I'm one of the lucky ones, my depression is mild enough I can deal with it without meds, but it's always there. Some people need them just to function. With others they do nothing.
During my time at the behavioral health clinic, one of the men in my caseload was diagnosed as a schizophrenic at age 8. 8! That is EXTREMELY rare. The onset of schizophrenia for Most individuals is in their early 20s. He said he heard voices even with medication. So I asked him why he took them if they did nothing. He said they did work, just not how I imagined. He said that without them he heard the voices in his head, they were loud, aggressive, violent, etc. With the meds he still heard them, but they were out of his head, like someone next to him. Also, they were nice, he had normal conversations about what was on TV or breakfast.
It all depends on the person. There is no one answer or magic bullet. People think there is, and the patients themselves want that miraculous med that "fixes" them... There isn't one. It's a combination of things that have to be done.
I think the issue is muddied by anti-big pharma politics, and "it didn't happen when I were a lad" ideas, not just doctors being too fast to diagnose. I find articles like this add to the argument that there's no such thing as ADHD or so-called high functioning autism, and that kids will usually snap out of it. Bruce is also speaking from his own personal experience of career success after dossing around for a few years, and the suggestion that his son was too intelligent to be within the ADHD bracket - so much for the cookie cutter argument.
There's a difference between a kid who runs around a lot or plays pretend every now and then and a kid who can't stop fixating on one object or subject, or genuinely struggles to sit still and concentrate one thing, to the exclusion of other people, other toys, schoolwork, meals, toilet breaks, etc. Like Onhell says, some people affected grow up to earn a living and function in a way acceptable to their peers without medication although I don't agree that you 100% grow out of the way your brain processes information. Some do better with structure, some do better for having excessive structure taken out of their lives, some do better for medication that allows them to process information more clearly. The be who you are message is very positive, but in reality, most people are expected to fit certain criteria to make a living. I've dealt with too many offenders, homeless people and drug addicts who got a diagnosis and help too late.
Personally, I think ADHD is a poorly conceived and defined condition. It gets classed as a behavioural problem or childhood-only condition, when what should be investigated is the way a person's brain is processing information. I suspect it also gets used as an autism lite diagnosis by some doctors because they don't want to label people for life as autistic, even if they clearly have other traits. Then there are those parents who do nothing after a diagnosis because the kid "can't help it".
There's a difference between a kid who runs around a lot or plays pretend every now and then and a kid who can't stop fixating on one object or subject, or genuinely struggles to sit still and concentrate one thing, to the exclusion of other people, other toys, schoolwork, meals, toilet breaks, etc. Like Onhell says, some people affected grow up to earn a living and function in a way acceptable to their peers without medication although I don't agree that you 100% grow out of the way your brain processes information. Some do better with structure, some do better for having excessive structure taken out of their lives, some do better for medication that allows them to process information more clearly. The be who you are message is very positive, but in reality, most people are expected to fit certain criteria to make a living. I've dealt with too many offenders, homeless people and drug addicts who got a diagnosis and help too late.
Personally, I think ADHD is a poorly conceived and defined condition. It gets classed as a behavioural problem or childhood-only condition, when what should be investigated is the way a person's brain is processing information. I suspect it also gets used as an autism lite diagnosis by some doctors because they don't want to label people for life as autistic, even if they clearly have other traits. Then there are those parents who do nothing after a diagnosis because the kid "can't help it".
Onhell
Infinite Dreamer
I should rephrase as you make a good point. By "grew out of it," I meant it became manageable without my mom's micromanagement. He had a well established extracurricular activity structure in place since he was 4. So yea, it was still there, he just knew how to deal with it.
Black Abyss Babe
I live for my dreams and a pocket full of gold
I think this is what we are all agreed on. I'm not disputing that some people have genuine problems that require assistance of some kind. One of my friends in Gainsborough has schizophrenia, and she also was diagnosed in childhood. She broke her leg jumping out of a window when she was ten, because she was hearing voices and that was what she thought they were telling her to do. Real mental illness/problems are definitely out there but with the demise of the Victorian-style taboo on the subject is seems like there's been a lot of stuff getting roped in with it that really shouldn't be there.
When I was at school introversion tended to be regarded as an affliction rather than as a personality trait (and still is, to some extent). In secondary school my sister and I started getting the child psychologists set on us on the grounds that we were "dangerously withdrawn" and also possibly had "clinical depression" (fortunately, my parents were anti-medication too). The thing is, there was never anything wrong with me or my sister, it all seemed to come from their script which apparently said that there was a standard blueprint to which all children should conform - that you should develop along the same pre-ordained path as everyone else, achieve certain specific milestones by particular ages, etc, etc. And judging from Bruce's experience, it doesn't sound like the script had changed much 20 years later.
My brother, on the other hand, genuinely has dyslexia and they had known since he was six. Yet he went all the way through school with almost no help - it seems that this wasn't high on their list of things that needed attention
It's weird how that happens, isn't it? It's like only breaking selected norms for the place you grow up, and becoming a problem to someone, will get you help. I have a older relative who would likely get an autism diagnosis if he was ever assessed, but schools and parents weren't on the lookout for it when he was young. At one time, poorer kids were just assumed to be thick witted, which he isn't.
I had immense problems in Maths at school, far too early and fundamental to be explained by laziness. Yet, I first heard the term "dyscalculia" when I was 32. I'm not saying I have it, but given that Maths and sciences were sometimes very obviously borderlining torture to me and that my Maths teacher once told me in resignation that I completely misunderstood what mathematical values represent, I find it scandalous that I was never even tested for it.
Yes, I was a lazy student, but nobody ever came up with the idea of checking if my lack of motivation came from any sort of intellectual deficiency or asking me why I started crying when I had to do a division problem.
Yes, I was a lazy student, but nobody ever came up with the idea of checking if my lack of motivation came from any sort of intellectual deficiency or asking me why I started crying when I had to do a division problem.
Have you thought about being checked now?