Linux

[Albie]

So I have finally done it, something I have toyed with for a while - I have put Linux on my laptop.

I started with Mandriva (formally Mandrake) 2008 Spring and then went on to Mandriva 2009 (not before a very brief flirtation with Fedora 2009). And I have to say, I sort of like it. I have not totally got rid of WinXP as I have a collection of software, that I have paid good money for, that only runs on Windows, so to get round that, my laptop is a dual-boot so I can choose to load up either XP or Linux (don't get me wrong, to load Linux on an already existing Windows PC creates the dual-boot for you using a neat little wizard. So it's not as complex as it seems).

The main reason for going to Linux is to gain some insight into its workings. As some may know, I work in IT and in my time have only really got to know four OS's: DOS, OS/2, Windows and OS400 (the OS used on the iSeries). It's high time I broadened this.

I also want to learn more of the Linux commands (which, from what I gather, is the same as what is used on Unix systems). See, it's all very well to have a point and click OS - after all, anyone can double-click a mouse on an icon - but I really want to learn more of the command prompt side of it. From what I have been brought up on (IT wise), I am used to running things from the command prompt and just simply cant get out of the habit.

A couple of things you need to get used to, if you choose Linux is the mounting, of external drives. All CD/DVD drives, SD cards, USB sticks, and so on, need to be mounted before you can use them (although most are done automatically). However, I do have a few little issues, for example my SD card on my laptop is not registered on boot. I have to eject and then insert before Linux sees it (I think this is a Mandriva bug as I did not notice this when I used Fedora). I also use the Microsoft program Robocopy to back up all my files to my USB stick, SD card and a Windows share (on another PC), and the Linux equivalent (rsync) seems not to cope very well with the USB stick and the SD card. I am not sure if this is down to an rsync switch or not, but I have had to format both my USB and SD drives due to some sort of file corruption.

But the Windows share leads me on to another issue - when I got to use a Windows share (using Linux's samba client) it occasionally causes my Internet connection to fail - but not my connection to the host of these Windows shares. The only way around this is to use the ipconfig in Windows (or the Linux equivalent) to release and renew the IP address. Bit of a pain, but I get around it.

Pros:
Dolphin (2009 versions of Linux) is much, much better than Windows Explorer.
Not one, yes not one, Linux update has asked me to re-boot my PC before the changes can take effect.
Open Office is standard.
As is Firefox.
It is harder to totally mess up the OS by accidentally deleting files you should not have.
The swap file is on it's own partition on your HDD.
Disk de-fragmentation is not necessary.
There is always someone, somewhere in Linux's global community that is more than willing to help out on an issue you may have. And if it is the right person, they will compose a patch or re-write some code for you.


Cons:
Windows, for all it's flack, seems to be a little bit more stable.
Robocopy is much better than rsync (at least from my experience).
See my gripe about SD cards.
And USB sticks (or is all down to rsync?).

 

[Onhell]

I've heard a lot of good things about Linux. Among them that each OS is highly specified to your needs, so there are literally thousands available for download depending on what your big bulk of work revolves around. Streamlining the operating systems to highly specialized tasks slims them down, thus they don't take up gigabytes of HD space. Another reason why there are so many is the beauty of it being open source (or is it open code?), and even though you might have found an OS that works fine, you can personalize it so it works exactly how YOU want it to. Plus all the stuff you've already said.

One thing though. Saying Dolphin is better than IE isn't saying much, ANY browser is pretty much superior to that Netscape rip-off

Keep us posted!

 

[Albie]

One thing though. Saying Dolphin is better than IE isn't saying much, ANY browser is pretty much superior to that Netscape rip-off

You're right, any browser is possibly better than IE, but Dolphin is Linux's Windows Explorer equivalent - the file manager.

And yes, the open source side of it is a big plus.

 

[Deleted member 7164]

Dolphin (2009 versions of Linux) is much, much better than Windows Explorer.

This is a bit unfair. Linux doesn't have any default file manager. Since it has no default desktop environment, KDE comes with one FM, GNOME with another, XFCE with third ans so on...and there are tens of more available. It maybe true that Dolphin is better than Windows Explorer, but i haven't ran into any X11 filemanager that's better than Total Commander (NC clone available for Windows). XNC comes close, but that's about it.

So, Windows comes with default file manager, vanilla GNU/Linux doesn't, and Windows alternatives are better than open-source ones.

Not one, yes not one, Linux update has asked me to re-boot my PC before the changes can take effect.

Yes, that's a major Windows pain in the ass, but you'll have to reboot if the update contains a new kernel revision.

It is harder to totally mess up the OS by accidentally deleting files you should not have.

Wrong. Running Linux as root is of same danger as running Windows as a system-wide administrator. The true part of it, you can do virtually anything under limited-user account on Linux (you can even install programs, if you change default paths from system predefined directories (/usr/bin...) to something where you have write permissions), Windows sucks as a true multi-user system on one machine.

The swap file is on it's own partition on your HDD.

Now that's better. Swapfs is more configured to host virtual memory pages than ordinary filesystems are.

Disk de-fragmentation is not necessary.

True, but ext2/reiserFS have their own set of problems, especially with journaling. Let's just say that i had to stay late at work this friday, because a power outage screwed filesystems on one Linux machine, and to make it worse, it was in a RAID mirroring array.

There is always someone, somewhere in Linux's global community that is more than willing to help out on an issue you may have. And if it is the right person, they will compose a patch or re-write some code for you.

Windows community is friendly also, and bigger. So that's not really a plus. Composing patches and rewriting code...now we get to the point. Doesn't matter if we like it or not, but commercial applications enjoy industry-hard development cycles, testing phases, etc...whereas Linux and most of the minor opensource programs are in essence...a patchwork. That ain't good.

Windows, for all it's flack, seems to be a little bit more stable.

Yes, Windows is more stable, and contrary to general belief, it wastes less memory. Linux can waste less if you're running some light-footprint desktop environment or window manager, but if you want a GUI that's comparable with the one in Windows...you'll have to run GNOME or KDE. Both are overbloated, slower, and heavier on system resources. The general graphics system (X11) doesn't help much either. It was developed as a client-server system with tons of stuff you won't ever use. All of that make it a bit of an overkill if you're running it on single machine (as we all are).

See my gripe about SD cards.
And USB sticks (or is all down to rsync?).

If you want to get down to that problem, investigate amd (not the CPU company, but the automounter daemon). Regarding sync, i always do good old fashioned tree comparison / sync via Midnight Commander or XNC or any other dual-pane filemanager. I don't fully trust automatic sync solutions.

I've heard a lot of good things about Linux.

There are more bad things than good things...

Among them that each OS is highly specified to your needs, so there are literally thousands available for download depending on what your big bulk of work revolves around.

OK, this is not good thing, it's a bad thing. This is the one and only reason why you won't have Photoshop (an example) for Linux anytime soon. Even if Linux only has < 5% of desktop market, Adobe would want to earn a buck or two from that market domain, right? Yeah...but hundreds of distributions, hundreds of kernel revision, and to make it all worse, it's not even a complete system, because Linux is only a kernel, and GNU provides userland programs (hence it's really named GNU/Linux), that makes kernel of one version, userland of another. Of all that distributions, of all that "freedom of choice" you have zero standards. Adobe can't support 100 systems at once. With Windows you have Windows, with FreeBSD you have FreeBSD, with Solaris you have Solaris. With Linux, you have an armada of similiar, but just enough different systems to make it all worse.

Streamlining the operating systems to highly specialized tasks slims them down, thus they don't take up gigabytes of HD space.

Yup, you can recompile the kernel/modules to fit only a specific hardware configuration, install only necessary userland programs, and reconfigure some window manager to provide basic everyday tasks, and run your primary specialistics programs of choice on top of everything.

Another reason why there are so many is the beauty of it being open source (or is it open code?), and even though you might have found an OS that works fine, you can personalize it so it works exactly how YOU want it to.

Ah...the good'ol "use the source Luke" argument. If one wants to be able to do that, that one needs to be a experienced programmer with a lot of knowledge of a particular system. How many everyday users do you think fit that description?

One thing though. Saying Dolphin is better than IE isn't saying much, ANY browser is pretty much superior to that Netscape rip-off

Let's be politically correct. It's a NCSA Mosaic rip-off. Which makes the issue even worse 

I'm an experienced UNIX user and computers are my work, my education and my main hobby. Been that for 15+ years. I don't like Linux at all. I first ran into Linux in 1998, and followed it's progress ever since, now i'm working/administrating/developing on it on everyday basis (job). If i'm doing music work, i'm using Windows because there's no equivalent of Cubase in opensource world. Same thing with 3D graphics, 2D graphics, games, and all the adjactent stuff. Both Windows and Linux can provide a good interface for all your everyday tasks, but i don't care about the fancy effects and GUI stuff if i don't have a constuctive use of it. So, i choose to use Windows for that part. As a UNIX programmer and engineer, i still won't use Linux because i'm a long FreeBSD user, and that system is far more stable, reiable and better in all UNIX workstation aspects.

Linux is somewhere between Windows and traditional UNIX systems, not good as a traditional UNIX system, and not even remotely good as Windows if you want to work with multimedia and stuff like that. And contrary to popular belief, Windows are stable if you have good, brand-name computer platform, and you know how to deal with your system. Most of the "windows breaks" issues are user-errors. And contrary to popular belief again, it's not just Microsoft's corporate monopoly as the reason why we have so many different 1st class programs available only for Windows. It's far easier to develop, maintain and support a program on Windows because Microsoft provides far better standardized API facilities, for any aspect of the system.

Albie, i wouldn't want to down your hopes, but Linux is not all flowers as it might seem. You'll run into serious problems if you want to use it on everyday basis as your primary system of choice. In that case, don't hesitate to drop a PM.

 

[Onhell]

Ah...the good'ol "use the source Luke" argument. If one wants to be able to do that, that one needs to be a experienced programmer with a lot of knowledge of a particular system. How many everyday users do you think fit that description?

5% of the market share? lol True that you need to know about programming, but I still like that even though I'd probably take advantage of said feature. But it is one of the major reasons Linux remains "underground."

Great post Zare, very informative.

 

[Albie]

Wrong. Running Linux as root is of same danger as running Windows as a system-wide administrator.

True, but to run the system under the root user is not something most people would do.

Windows community is friendly also, and bigger. So that's not really a plus. Composing patches and rewriting code...now we get to the point. Doesn't matter if we like it or not, but commercial applications enjoy industry-hard development cycles, testing phases, etc...whereas Linux and most of the minor opensource programs are in essence...a patchwork. That ain't good.

I'll give an example of how I found the Linux online community to be helpful. To log into work, we use the Cisco VPN client. When I put Linux on my laptop, I installed the Linux version of the VPN client, but encountered a few problems. After a bit of research, I found some guy in Austria was dealing with these problems for others and creating patches to be applied to get it working. He came up with a fully working release and patch and made it downloadable from his site (apparently, Cisco doesn't actually fully support their Linux VPN client - or so I'm told). And this version works. Yes, programs patched up here and there are not good, but if it gets them working, then I'm OK with that.

Support for Windows applications are notorious in telling the end-user it must be a problem at your end, it works fine here - or something similar.

Yes, Windows is more stable, and contrary to general belief, it wastes less memory.

I'm glad you said that because I know Windows gets a lot of bad press, it is more stable than Linux. By Windows, I mean WinXP, not necessarily previous versions - Win98 was a friggin' nightmare and as for Win95 and Windows 3 and so on.....

I can't comment on Vista or any Mac OS's as I have not used them. I dare say Onhell will tell us how brilliant Mac's are.

Albie, i wouldn't want to down your hopes, but Linux is not all flowers as it might seem. You'll run into serious problems if you want to use it on everyday basis as your primary system of choice. In that case, don't hesitate to drop a PM.

I don't think I will ever be a Linux only user, but I do want to learn about this OS and the commands used, etc. But whilst most applications we buy and use are developed to run on Windows, then Linux will always remain as popular as it is now.

The ironic thing is that I have a PVR that has a USB interface to allows you to transfer (using a Windows application) recorded programs, MP3's etc to and from your PC. The PVR runs on a Linux type system but there is no Linux based software application that will allow you to connect to the USB interface directly - although there is a tool that allows you to turn the USB interface into an Ethernet interface - using extra hardware. In failing that, I could always remove the HDD from the PVR, plug it into a HDD caddy - but what a palaver that is.

 

[Onhell]

I can't comment on Vista or any Mac OS's as I have not used them. I dare say Onhell will tell us how brilliant Mac's are.

Um... They work!