Done.
Led Zeppelin poll and discussion thread
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Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Thanks for trying to explain the different sides of what happened to Zeppelin Per. A reaction on this part:
This was also the case for Golden Earring. Maybe not for all their songs, but definitely, their live material could differ a lot from studio work. And in some cases they had longer versions. Eight Miles High was 45 minutes (featuring this kind of antics)! Still, their studio records did not have such an unheard quantity of stuff taken from others. Maybe there was more imagination and time for studio work, who knows.
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We don't know that. When Golden Earring was starting out, a lot of the music they listened to was live, but the history of Dutch rock is not known to me, so what they could have been influenced by, how do we know?
We do know they stole the name Golden Earring from another band's song, though.
You're welcome.
Not to disprove your point, but Eight Miles High was a cover of a song written by The Byrds. And we don't really know if Golden Earring didn't lift as much music from other artists, because nobody really bothered to investigate this.
But I just... you know, I was talking about Led Zeppelin. I made a long post, and most of what I wrote wasn't even commented on. Instead we're talking about Golden Earring now.
Cornfed Hick
Ancient Mariner
So, to recap.
1) Led Zeppelin borrowed/stole/plagiarized lyrics or passages from a number of artists, mostly old blues artists from before WW2.
2) Foro finds this reprehensible. No one else seems to care much. This apathy also bothers Foro. So be it.
3) Iron Maiden borrowed/stole/plagiarized lyrics or passages from a number of artists, including their contemporaries.
4) No one, including Forostar, seems to care too much.
5) We all love Iron Maiden.
6) Most of us love or like Led Zeppelin (and those who don't, should!
).
7) Poll is reopened!
Enough about the plagiarism stuff, it's been beaten to death, and has been resolved in litigation if the artist or his estate cared enough to sue. Let's thank Foro for bumping this thread and take the opportunity to discuss the mighty Zep again!
Check out the reissued Deluxe Editions. Not only do they sound excellent, they have good bonus tracks, including the LA mix of "Stairway," "Jennings Farm Blues" (posted above, post #18), and these two unearthed treasures:
1) Led Zeppelin borrowed/stole/plagiarized lyrics or passages from a number of artists, mostly old blues artists from before WW2.
2) Foro finds this reprehensible. No one else seems to care much. This apathy also bothers Foro. So be it.
3) Iron Maiden borrowed/stole/plagiarized lyrics or passages from a number of artists, including their contemporaries.
4) No one, including Forostar, seems to care too much.
5) We all love Iron Maiden.
6) Most of us love or like Led Zeppelin (and those who don't, should!
). 7) Poll is reopened!
Enough about the plagiarism stuff, it's been beaten to death, and has been resolved in litigation if the artist or his estate cared enough to sue. Let's thank Foro for bumping this thread and take the opportunity to discuss the mighty Zep again!
Check out the reissued Deluxe Editions. Not only do they sound excellent, they have good bonus tracks, including the LA mix of "Stairway," "Jennings Farm Blues" (posted above, post #18), and these two unearthed treasures:
CriedWhenBrucieLeft
Meme Only Account
I did.
I wasn't kidding. You could have encapsulated most of what your first three paragraphs said with this one word.
(And you deleted a post, didn't you?
)This isn't a comment on Zeps music, but Page (by some accounts) sounded like a horrible guy. I became slightly less interested in Zep after reading a few things in regard to him...
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So here's the thing. I've never fallen in love with Zep. I've enjoyed some of their tracks, but never gone, OMFG MUST LISTEN. So I have all the albums, obviously, it's like required. But where should I start?
CriedWhenBrucieLeft
Meme Only Account
Page is going on tour next year, isn't he? Anyone seen him live?
Listen to Zeppelin II and then Houses of the Holy. II gives you the best taste of their blues oriented music (also one of Bruce Dickinson's all time favorite albums I believe) and Houses of the Holy shows what they can do beyond that.
Yea, and that's pretty much all it comes down to. Jazz/blues is driven by improvisation. It'll start with a familiar melody and then go off into a jam. I saw a Jazz concert a few weeks ago that opened with Synchronicity by the Police, I didn't even realize what it was until the leader said so afterwards. It was awesome.
This got lost in translation in recorded Rock music and I think it's why some people look back on Zeppelin as thieves.
Cornfed Hick
Ancient Mariner
The first two albums are, as noted above, heavily influenced (ahem) by old blues tracks. If that sounds interesting, then you could just start from there and go chronologically. The third album is more folk-influenced and uneven, but Immigrant Song, Since I've Been Loving You and Tangerine are essential.
They never abandon these folk or blues influences, and each album has some of that, but the really heavy (and in my view, best) stuff is found on IV, Houses of the Holy, Physical Graffiti and Presence. Their final proper album, In Through the Out Door, is the subject of much debate, some love it, some hate it, but it is a change in direction, and due to Bonham's death and the band's dissolution we never got to see where the band went. Coda is basically just old studio and sound check outtakes, but worth a listen -- it's actually how I got started listening to Zeppelin, and it is really good, as well as presenting a survey of various different time periods.
For those of you who don't already have the albums and want to see what Zeppelin was all about, I recommend you plunk down the $25 to order this DVD set, stake out an evening, open a bottle of wine, and just enjoy--especially the 1979 Knebworth footage:
Here is a taste of the Knebworth (1979) show, and my favorite Zeppelin composition (all original!):
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That's always been my favorite Zep album. It's a great showcase of their variety. Hard rock, reggae, James Brown style funk, and two "ballads" which stretch far beyond that term's usual popular meaning.
JudasMyGuide
Ancient Mariner
SixesAlltheway
Ancient Mariner
Well, to end all of this plagiarism talk. Zeppelin were cleared last month
http://teamrock.com/news/2016-06-23...ise-spirit-track-taurus-on-stairway-to-heaven
http://teamrock.com/news/2016-06-23...ise-spirit-track-taurus-on-stairway-to-heaven
Spambot
Meme Lord
Voted for Physical Graffiti, definitely my favourite. If I were to make my "best of" not a lot of songs would make the list from that album, but hearing it whole it just has some sort of coherence, I rarely skip a song.
On Zeppelin borrowing: I was very disapointed that a lot of their ideas were "borrowed". When I started listening them after Maiden (some 12-13 ago) I was amazed by quality of each and every album (until In Throught the Out Door / Coda). The melody and composion were amazing and I remeber every time I heard something that I haven't heard from them I thought: "Wow, they really were the game changer, and Page was really a genius). Then I started to noticing "borrowing". Now... There is a thin line between "inspired by", "borrowed" and "stole" but in this case thing that bugs me is that they became famous by those "questionable" songs.
You guys mentioned Maiden's borrowing - the lyrics are from Beckett in HBTN and the melody is in The Nomad. Lyrics stealing isn't a big deal for me as idea/melody stealing so I don't look down on HBTN because of that. The thing with The Nomad - they did that 20+ years into their carrer and it isn't even one of the best songs on the album, even for the fans at this forum. But on Zeppelin's case it seems like the whole songs were plagirized (melody, lyrics, composion) and that were the hit singles at the begining in their career. And that kind of watered down my respect for them. Mick Wall's biography didn't help either.
Now, all this taken into consideration I still listen to Zeppelin, I still love some of their songs and I still enjoy their albums. Only thing that is changed is that I don't praise them as I did before I knew some of the facts but I would still pay big bucks to see them on tour with Bonhams's son. I'm even going to see Robert Plant live in 2 weeks in hope that there are going to be more Zeppelin songs than his own studio material.
On Zeppelin borrowing: I was very disapointed that a lot of their ideas were "borrowed". When I started listening them after Maiden (some 12-13 ago) I was amazed by quality of each and every album (until In Throught the Out Door / Coda). The melody and composion were amazing and I remeber every time I heard something that I haven't heard from them I thought: "Wow, they really were the game changer, and Page was really a genius). Then I started to noticing "borrowing". Now... There is a thin line between "inspired by", "borrowed" and "stole" but in this case thing that bugs me is that they became famous by those "questionable" songs.
You guys mentioned Maiden's borrowing - the lyrics are from Beckett in HBTN and the melody is in The Nomad. Lyrics stealing isn't a big deal for me as idea/melody stealing so I don't look down on HBTN because of that. The thing with The Nomad - they did that 20+ years into their carrer and it isn't even one of the best songs on the album, even for the fans at this forum. But on Zeppelin's case it seems like the whole songs were plagirized (melody, lyrics, composion) and that were the hit singles at the begining in their career. And that kind of watered down my respect for them. Mick Wall's biography didn't help either.
Now, all this taken into consideration I still listen to Zeppelin, I still love some of their songs and I still enjoy their albums. Only thing that is changed is that I don't praise them as I did before I knew some of the facts but I would still pay big bucks to see them on tour with Bonhams's son. I'm even going to see Robert Plant live in 2 weeks in hope that there are going to be more Zeppelin songs than his own studio material.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
That's why I think overrated is not an over used word when it comes to Let Borrowing.
JudasMyGuide
Ancient Mariner
I never really cared about that. Just like with Harrison's My Sweet Lord. I enjoy the "borrowed" songs, whereas I don't enjoy the originals as much. Sometimes I don't even hear it that clearly (Bring It on Home) and I don't really care for the lyrics, because, in all honesty, I can't imagine anyone listening to LedZep for the lyrics ("You need coolin' // Baby, I'm not foolin' // I'm gonna send ya back to schoolin'"). Most of Page's riffs and solos are original, as were JPJ basslines (still the most underrated member!).
I have much bigger problem with the fact I can't stand Plant at all. I liked him in high school and progressively I got more and more tired of his "pseudo-woman" approach. He might be actually one of the most obnoxious singers this side of Billy Corgan. That said, I still enjoy most of Physical Graffiti and Presence and a song here and there (No Quarter!), but yeah, "overrated" is the word.
I have much bigger problem with the fact I can't stand Plant at all. I liked him in high school and progressively I got more and more tired of his "pseudo-woman" approach. He might be actually one of the most obnoxious singers this side of Billy Corgan. That said, I still enjoy most of Physical Graffiti and Presence and a song here and there (No Quarter!), but yeah, "overrated" is the word.