Kevin Shirley - What do you dislike about his work with Maiden? (if you do)

Ultimately a good producer works well when they aren't being hired by a half-deaf madman bassist. If Caveman tried to run Maiden the way that Martin used to, he'd be an ex-Iron Maiden producer in the length of time it takes Dave to play one cycle of the primary Trooper riff.
 
naranja said:
Some of you guys complaining about the weak guitar mix should listen to TXF. It could be WAY worse. Sounds like blaze is singing over an isolated bass and drum track and Janick and Dave are playing through an answering phone message in the next room.
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And still the rhythm guitar sounds more upfront than on the last few albums. Although in TFF is nice. The ''live in the studio'' approach is really odd, not gonna lie.
MindRuler said:
If only the whole Senjutsu album had the audio quality of The Writing On The Wall.
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How an album can have songs that sound different, that's just wow... some are less muddy than the others. Writing On The Wall shines with SJ's production, but it's far from perfect or powerful enough.
 
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breeg said:
I really hate "Live in the studio" mode. I don't understand it at all.
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I don't understand how it can produce such uneven results. Certain people did complain about AMOLAD, but I actually liked the sound, though I really don't understand how and why that works.
 
naranja said:
Some of you guys complaining about the weak guitar mix should listen to TXF. It could be WAY worse. Sounds like blaze is singing over an isolated bass and drum track and Janick and Dave are playing through an answering phone message in the next room.
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It's a little striking if you go from the studio B-sides to the live tracks on Best of the B-sides. It's like a completely different band, and that's even though the live mixes aren't stunningly great either. But at least you can hear the guitars!
 
Kalata said:
And still the rhythm guitar is better than on the last few albums.
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lolwhat. The rhythm guitar track is barely audible on TXF but can easily be heard on the last few albums, how can you even hear it to know that it's better?

All this talk of Kevin needing to rein Steve in and trim some of the albums down, did Martin Birch ever have a hand in the songwriting like that? I know many producers do get involved, but it's not like there aren't any epics on the eighties albums, and I don't recall anyone ever saying Birch was "hands on" like that.
 
dickinson1978 said:
The intro of dance of death sounds weird in the album. Not polish?
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I have no idea what you're talking about here. All the instruments play tight and are recorded well on the title track. It's fair if you don't like it, but I'm not following on what exactly the issue is.

Edington said:
lolwhat. The rhythm guitar track is barely audible on TXF but can easily be heard on the last few albums, how can you even hear it to know that it's better?

All this talk of Kevin needing to rein Steve in and trim some of the albums down, did Martin Birch ever have a hand in the songwriting like that? I know many producers do get involved, but it's not like there aren't any epics on the eighties albums, and I don't recall anyone ever saying Birch was "hands on" like that.
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We have those legendary anecdotes about Bruce losing his mind having to repeat the intro to TNOTB so many times, but other than that you are right. Birch wasn't particularly involved.

I suppose we could ask of Kevin to be more assertive with pushing for more and better takes (and to be more careful with choosing the best takes, instead of choosing those with little mistakes in them), but we all know Steve would respond with:
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Edington said:
but it's not like there aren't any epics on the eighties albums
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Oh, epics are great. Releasing every song that the band haphazardly slapped together in the studio rarely is (see Use Your Illusion or  Hardwired or (Re)Load for example). People were already complaining in the 90s about how the CD era made everyone release everything and that the albums are bloated and suffer from that, do we really need all the double albums, for example?

And besides, I was talking more about reining in sound-wise, i. e. "Don't let the near-deaf 'Arry release such ear-bleeding buggeration as Dance of Death."
 
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Edington said:
All this talk of Kevin needing to rein Steve in and trim some of the albums down, did Martin Birch ever have a hand in the songwriting like that? I know many producers do get involved, but it's not like there aren't any epics on the eighties albums, and I don't recall anyone ever saying Birch was "hands on" like that.
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Most of the people commenting have absolutely no idea what goes on in the studio, and are just surmising based on the general perception of Steve Harris.
 
srfc said:
Most of the people commenting have absolutely no idea what goes on in the studio, and are just surmising based on the general perception of Steve Harris.
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Which is why you will find me almost never talking about production. I can try to find some words for why I think NPFTD sounds worse than SOASS, or why BNW sounds great and DOD doesn't, but I will never be able to tell why that is or what they "did wrong".
 
Vaenyr said:
I have no idea what you're talking about here. All the instruments play tight and are recorded well on the title track. It's fair if you don't like it, but I'm not following on what exactly the issue is.


We have those legendary anecdotes about Bruce losing his mind having to repeat the intro to TNOTB so many times, but other than that you are right. Birch wasn't particularly involved.

I suppose we could ask of Kevin to be more assertive with pushing for more and better takes (and to be more careful with choosing the best takes, instead of choosing those with little mistakes in them), but we all know Steve would respond with:
tenor.gif
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When the second acoustic guitar enters
 
A music producer is a middle manager. A very highly skilled, sometimes creative technician whose job it is to handhold an artist through the process of getting their music recorded.

Some artists like working with producers who have a lot more free reign in the studio and assist with song notes, mix notes, tone notes, etc.

Some artists are control freaks who hire a producer because they are comfortable working with them and want a glorified audio technician who won’t get in their way. This is Steve Harris.

Kevin Shirley is not the problem.
 
It’s funny but I see these sort of threads come up all the time. I do get how fans would want the band to sound more polished but the fact is Iron Maiden have paid their dues and from dance of death onwards they release albums sounding exactly how they want them to sound.

No producer in the world could tell Steve or anyone else in the band how things should or shouldn’t sound.

Martin birch, whilst being a great producer was also working with a young band who idolised him as he’d worked with a lot of their fave bands so they listened and done exactly what Martin told them too. Today’s maiden is a very different beast.

Kevin is a great producer, when the band (particularly Steve) were more hands off on BNW Kevin did a superb job. I also really like Kevin’s work with Dream theater so he definitely can produce metal bands.

If Kevin stood up to Steve and told him to let him handle the sound completely he’d be sacked, as would any producer who did the same. Maybe Kevin sticks around as if he didn’t and Steve was left to produce the albums alone with maybe Tony newton then imagine how shit they’d sound. Maybe Kevin’s influence stops the albums from being a complete turd fest.
 
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