siliconmessiah2000
Trooper
I'm one of these people. It's Steve Harris calling the shots more than Shirley and I'm not a fan of the direction he took the band, stylisically and sonically.
Kevin Shirley’s production of Senjutsu
- Thread starter Neil2320
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MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
This is all true and I will still question the amount of final say that Smith or Dickinson have on anything (other than the arrangement and overdubs on songs that they've written).
- Steve is to blame for the manner of recording - i.e. tracking as "live" as possible with minimal overdubs and often minimal actual practicing of the song as a unit. Could Kevin Shirley get a better guitar sound? Maybe, but probably not with a bunch of people playing at the same time because of bleed, etc. He could try to re-amp in post production, but something tells me Steve is probably against that.
- Bruce and Smith (and the other guys) seem to mostly be okay with this (lazy) manner of recording.
- Steve is to blame for the mixing as he has all final say on the mixes. Could Kevin Shirley fight Steve on the mixes? Sure, but why in the hell would he? Maiden is probably his biggest paycheck, his biggest name drop and his easiest gig!
- Bruce and Smith (and the other guys) seem to mostly be okay with this (muddy) manner of mixing.
- Steve is to blame for the lack of mastering. As for Shirley, see above, re: collecting a paycheck.
- Bruce and Smith (and the other guys) seem to mostly be okay with this (lazy) manner of final production.
D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
I more disagree than I agree with you - I believe that reunion output has been consistently high, albeit those real sound and arrangement issues. But I certainly find the opinion valid.
We've seen that Smith can openly be dissatisfied about the process (TFF documentary), and although Dickinson hardly says anything at the time, later on he rates the album and you can see his 'meh' opinion.
On the other hand, both Dickinson and Smith went to Harris for arrangements, bridging, and just general songcraft.
So they're at least complicit in the behaviour.
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
I think it's possible to like what the band does and still disagree with aspects of their process/style/output/behavior/etc.
I like all of the reunion albums and prefer a few of them to almost all of the "classic" material, that doesn't mean I have to agree with their production decisions.
I like all of the reunion albums and prefer a few of them to almost all of the "classic" material, that doesn't mean I have to agree with their production decisions.
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
I think it's like saying swimming is great but that one pool across town remodeled their locker rooms and they aren't as pleasant as they used to be.
D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
Stuff's not binary tho, I can like what he does 78.3% of the time which still means, although I like him much (78.3%) I'll have complaints and even an eyebrow raise wtf moment or two.
A guy who loved swimming once went for a dip in the middle of the winter. It's a shame he got wet, they said, because on such a day it most certainly got him a pulmonia. Had he known about the great invention of Neoprene Swimsuit he'd actually be alive and swimming without getting wet
Cat Milk Supreme
Ancient Mariner
Ah, yes, I also mourn the modern decline of the swimming pool glory hole.
Magnus
Pica Serdica
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
They do not always agree though. TFF. :---)
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Hmm no. Smith was dissatisfied about the sound (of the mix, or the guitar sound). Not the process, not the arrangements and all the rest.
Ruflux
Ancient Mariner
I think the "Smith has no say" argument was at least somewhat nullified by him admitting he was very particular about the guitars in TWOTW, and lo and behold, they retracked them after they got done with the live takes.
That said, this debate's definitely feeling like a bit of a rehash. In fact I recall making a post that mostly summed up how I felt about it back in May 2020:
It's pretty much how I still feel. Fair enough on whoever said Bruce is unable to play the piano well enough, but in general it feels like Shirley's perfectly content with modern technology and cut-and-paste and all that jazz as long as it's less effort for him. Personally I don't much care for that approach if it also doesn't mean fixing issues like bum notes or bad edits etc.
That said, this debate's definitely feeling like a bit of a rehash. In fact I recall making a post that mostly summed up how I felt about it back in May 2020:
It's pretty much how I still feel. Fair enough on whoever said Bruce is unable to play the piano well enough, but in general it feels like Shirley's perfectly content with modern technology and cut-and-paste and all that jazz as long as it's less effort for him. Personally I don't much care for that approach if it also doesn't mean fixing issues like bum notes or bad edits etc.
Spaldy
Ancient Mariner
I highly doubt that Maiden do "minimal practicing". Considering how complex some of their arrangements are and everything.
The amps are not all stacked together. They're recorded in separate soundproof booths so there is no "bleed".
You're obviously not a musician if you think that recording whole songs live is lazy. Quite the opposite in fact. It's far more difficult getting an entire song nailed in one take than it is to just rely on overdubbing and pro-tools.
Were The Beatles lazy?
D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
There was no point in doing it with MIDI keyboards because the takes are not perfectly quantized and there are mistakes in playing. But there is copy paste.
They should've went with grand piano or just perfectly score the piano parts in MIDI. This is a halfass solution.
siliconmessiah2000
Trooper
I don't get how a band with arguably the biggest budget in the business can be so cheap with using MIDI in lieu of real instruments. You're Iron Maiden, you can hire an actual cellist, violinist, pianist, even a whole orchestra. Not only does using MIDI sound lame and cheesy, but also unprofessional.
Spaldy
Ancient Mariner
There's nothing lame or unprofessional about using MIDI. Millions of artists do so including professional one's and done properly the results can be superb. The issue is that Maiden don't record to a click so MIDI triggering is impossible. Therefore, it made little sense for Bruce to use a MIDI keyboard over a real piano.
Fact is they should have hired a pro pianist as Bruce is no Chopin.
TheMercenary
Ancient Mariner
What a controversy !! 
I really don't give a shit about the KS's production, as the most important for me is the music, the evolution of my favorite band.
Moreover, I don't think that the production is as bad as described by many fans. At least it's better than the production of some other major heavy metal albums released this year. The sound of the first KK's Priest record is awful, for example. KK Downing and Tim Owens are VIP in the metal music industry now, so they know enough producers who could have helped them to have a better production for their 1st album, yet...
When put into a CD player and listened to with headphones, 'Senjutsu' sounds really well. OK, it's not the same production as on 'Brave New World', but for me it was a conscious strategy from the band to have a more intimate, calmer production, in order to make the songs explode on stage during the last leg of LOTB World Tour and the Senjutsu World Tour coming after, for the sake of communion with the fans.
I really don't give a shit about the KS's production, as the most important for me is the music, the evolution of my favorite band.
Moreover, I don't think that the production is as bad as described by many fans. At least it's better than the production of some other major heavy metal albums released this year. The sound of the first KK's Priest record is awful, for example. KK Downing and Tim Owens are VIP in the metal music industry now, so they know enough producers who could have helped them to have a better production for their 1st album, yet...
When put into a CD player and listened to with headphones, 'Senjutsu' sounds really well. OK, it's not the same production as on 'Brave New World', but for me it was a conscious strategy from the band to have a more intimate, calmer production, in order to make the songs explode on stage during the last leg of LOTB World Tour and the Senjutsu World Tour coming after, for the sake of communion with the fans.