Kevin Shirley’s production of Senjutsu

[Pibroch_Whistler]

seems that the same ones complaining about Bruce's "weakening" voice are also complaining about how his vocals are further back in the mix
on Senjutsu.

not sure what these armchair engineers expect, or what their solution would be.

of course I may have biased ears, as I've always enjoyed productions (such as Rainbow Rising and many of the classic Who albums) where the vocals are somewhat beneath the guitars and drums in the mix.

 

[Pibroch_Whistler]

one of my favorite moments on Senjutsu is found in Lost in a Lost World - specifically the verses and pre-chorus parts where the greasy layered crunchy rhythm guitar lines (verses) and the melodic lead-type runs (pre-chorus). Bruce's voice seems to howl and roar to try and out duel the guitar lines (even though they're slightly higher in the mix) and it just sounds bloody fantastic to these ears.

Certain stanzas in "Stratego" display Bruce's "howl" roar. Count me in as digging this new timbre in his voice.

 

[stvn1974]

Does anyone know if the hi-res download version at places such as Qobuz have the awful clipping on "Hell On Earth"?

 

[JudasMyGuide]

seems that the same ones complaining about Bruce's "weakening" voice are also complaining about how his vocals are further back in the mix
on Senjutsu.

not sure what these armchair engineers expect, or what their solution would be.

of course I may have biased ears, as I've always enjoyed productions (such as Rainbow Rising and many of the classic Who albums) where the vocals are somewhat beneath the guitars and drums in the mix.

I don't personally complain about the vocals - there are other things I could complain about regarding the production - but in this particular case I don't see the contradiction.

Those examples you mention, well, Dio and Daltrey do have a piercing, almost shrill quality to their voice sometimes and indeed I too appreciate if the vocals are not upfront and prominent. I personally like when they are a "part of the band", so to speak.

With Bruce, I kinda tend to think he is losing this quality as he ages (and I personally welcome that, I always felt the already-busy sound of Maiden is better complemented by a more down-to-earth vocalist like Blaze, whom Bruce starts to remind me ... but maybe it's the material itself, which is becoming more and more X-Factor-ish) and putting him further back in the mix might threaten with "drowning" him in the sound.

I don't think it happens or that's really a concern, but I get the reasoning behind those complaints.

 

[ironmaidenlewes]

Does anyone know if the hi-res download version at places such as Qobuz have the awful clipping on "Hell On Earth"?

Yes, the clipping on the final disc's tracks is present; as far as I can tell, it appears to be on all versions (suggesting it wasn't caused at the mastering stage, but before that).

 

[Kalata]

I don't personally complain about the vocals - there are other things I could complain about regarding the production - but in this particular case I don't see the contradiction.

With Bruce, I kinda tend to think he is losing this quality as he ages (and I personally welcome that, I always felt the already-busy sound of Maiden is better complemented by a more down-to-earth vocalist like Blaze, whom Bruce starts to remind me ... but maybe it's the material itself, which is becoming more and more X-Factor-ish) and putting him further back in the mix might threaten with "drowning" him in the sound.

I don't think it happens or that's really a concern, but I get the reasoning behind those complaints.

I also don't have a problem with the vocals in the album or think it's something to worry about - I don't want every song to be with high vocals. Even Priest's latest album doesn't have that many songs with high vocals from Rob (or that many fast songs, btw).

Bruce said he uses more of his lower register in this album and I think that's intentional and to support the mood of the songs (like in the pre-chorus of LIALW, for example). I'm sure he'll use it for his solo album too. And it's not like there aren't any high vocals in the album - title track, Stratego, LIALW ... as for the other songs:

TWOTW - the vocals are fine.
DOFP, Darkest Hour (it's a ballad), Hell On Earth - the vocals are high enough.
The Time Machine - the vocals here are aslo high and perfect.
DOTC - high vocals won't fit here and the song doesn't need such a feature.
The Parchment - song without a (potentially high) chorus.

And to make a comparison - the high vocals in TBOS album were in half of the song in it.

I can't agree with you that Maiden's busy sound need a vocalsit like Blaze, Bruce is really perfect for the band and their vision. And his voice never reminded me of Blaze's voice, even nowadays. The material in the last few albums is X-Factor-ish, yes (especially in Senjutsu), but not the vocals.

 

[Kalata]

I like the production of the Reunion era albums (some more, some less), but how can albums from the 80's or from 1992 have production without ''issues'' unlike some post 2000's albums (excluding Brave New World, so we can't blame the 3 guitars in the mix)? And I don't just mean Maiden. The production of Helloween's latest album with 3 guitars isn't that good either. My favorite producion is on albums like Powerslave, Fear Of The Dark, Brave New World, Accident Of Birth, Painkiller, etc.

About Senjutsu's production, I think 2 songs (the title track and Stratego) could benefit a lot from improved production. They sound a bit different from the rest of the songs. I think the production of the albums after 2003 lacks a bit of power in the mix, and I still like it. Also, I think they sound clear enough. Maiden's production shouldn't have any mixing issues as far as I know. The cleanest metal production nowadays is that of Andy Sneap. His early 2000's production could fit Maiden's first 2 Reunion albums (after that, nope imo), but nothing from the 80's or even the 90's. Although, I would like to hear a modern production of his for just one Maiden album.

 

[Yax]

I love Sneap, but his productions after 2010 sound extremely similar. Same formula, and overly processed to the extent that it does not fit Maiden as far as I'm concerned.

 

[____no5]

Just realised that Sneap was the man behind the decks in Silicon Messiah

 

[Samantas5855]

Does anyone know if the hi-res download version at places such as Qobuz have the awful clipping on "Hell On Earth"?

I believe all Senjutsu versions are the same, the distortion from the clipping is audible even on vinyl! I can give you twotw without clipping tho.

 

[Cat Milk Supreme]

What is this clipping you speak of and where does it appear, exactly?

 

[Cat Milk Supreme]

Actually, I just read a little about clipping. Please please, no one try and explain it any further to me.

Although I am curious as to how/why this occurs on a Maiden album. Sheer laziness? Not willing to spend money on the extra studio time required fix it? Could it be fixed by a computer or would the parts have to be re-recorded?

Life in Maiden must be bittersweet for Adrian Smith.

 

[ironmaidenlewes]

Although I am curious as to how/why this occurs on a Maiden album. Sheer laziness? Not willing to spend money on the extra studio time required fix it? Could it be fixed by a computer or would the parts have to be re-recorded?

I’d love to get an answer to that question. I suppose it there’s at least two questions there: 1) how did it happen in the first place (surely ‘recording hot’ isn’t a complete explanation?), and 2) why wasn’t it removed after the recording?

The worst possible answer is that people simply don’t care enough to deal with it. It’s not just Maiden - you can hear it on a lot of records…

 

[Kalata]

Actually, I just read a little about clipping. Please please, no one try and explain it any further to me.

Although I am curious as to how/why this occurs on a Maiden album. Sheer laziness? Not willing to spend money on the extra studio time required fix it? Could it be fixed by a computer or would the parts have to be re-recorded?

Life in Maiden must be bittersweet for Adrian Smith.

It's really something to wonder about, especially for a band like Maiden. TBOS and the other Reunion albums don't have such problem. This can be fixed with a remaster of the album, I guess. Remaster for an album from 2021...

About Adrian, he said that he really likes the production of Senjutsu and that it is one of their best or something. The production of the Smith/Kotezn album isn't that different from it. British Lion's latest album too. The production of Adrian's 2012 solo project is different though.

He wasn't a fan of TFF production.

 

[Abas]

I've never noticed any clippings on Hell on Earth.

I know that this is deviating from the original subject, but there is one super noticeable clip just as Janick's solo starts at The Aftermath on The X Factor - at least in the 2015 remastered one.

 

[stvn1974]

The main clipping that I notice on Hell On Earth is when the guitar pans from left to right when Bruce stops singing for the first time. I will try to get a time stamp in a bit. It sounds like bacon frying.

Edit: it takes place the first time at 4:31. On the original CD release of Dance Of Death there was clipping at the beginning of "Gates Of Tomorrow" but it is gone when they remastered it in 2015. The 1998 CD of Somewhere In Time also had a spot of clipping at the beginning of "Wasted Years" and was also fixed with the 2015 remaster. So, the clipping on Senjutsu could be fixed with a remix or just doing another remaster. Most people probably don't notice these things but I do and they drive me crazy, especially with headphones. Metallica's Death Magnetic, Rush's Vapor Trails and Red Hot Chili Peppers' Californication are the worst offenders. Death Magnetic was fixed when it was rereleased on streaming services and as hi-res downloads. Vapor Trails got a complete remix on CD and Californication was remastered in 2014 but there is still a bit of clipping on it, it just isn't as bad.

 

[TheTalisman]

I love Sneap, but his productions after 2010 sound extremely similar. Same formula, and overly processed to the extent that it does not fit Maiden as far as I'm concerned.

I think Blaze's Blood and Belief from 2004 were one of the first albums produced by Sneap with that particular sound.

I don't think it would suit Maiden either.

 

[____no5]

Metallica's Death Magnetic, Rush's Vapor Trails and Red Hot Chili Peppers' Californication are the worst offenders.

Two words: Rick Rubin.

 

[JamesKline]

I like the clipping at this position in Hell on Earth, it somehow fits. I don't know. Maybe it wasn't just me who thought that. Kevin Shirley is not deaf.

 

[Spaldy]

I've got Senjutsu on CD and Vinyl and the clipping is so miniscule it barely registers. It's certainly not nearly as bad as TXF or DOD.