Lyrics always go with music. When they got more set in their style and less experimental in the music, same happened with lyrics.
Judas Priest Discography Discussion (part 2 starting page 20)
- Thread starter Mosh
- Start date
terrell39
Ancient Mariner
Listen to Green Manalishi during the verses. In between each line in the left channel KK plays his wah-wah which is what most people notice about those verses, but if you listen to what Glenn is doing in the right channel the chords he is playing sound HEAVY as hell and I think actually sound better than the wah-wah KK is playing. Use your balance to listen to a verse all in the left channel then again all in the right channel to hear the difference.
Killing Machine/Hell Bent For Leather (1978)
Rob Halford - Vocals
K.K. Downing - Guitar
Glenn Tipton - Guitar
Ian Hill - Guitar
Les Binks - Drums
There's many who tried, to prove that they're faster/But they didn't last and they died as they tried
This album is notable for a number of things, the first -probably most obvious- is that it was released under two different names. In the US, it was renamed to Hell Bent For Leather due to "murderous implications" of the intended title. For everywhere else in the world, it was known as Killing Machine. Perhaps Hell Bent For a Leather was a more appropriate title, as the band had developed their signature leather and studs look by now. The US version also contained an extra song, a Peter Green era Fleetwood Mac cover: The Green Manalishi (With the Two-Pronged Crown). This song would become a live staple for the band.
Killing Machine shows several different sides of the band, who were still trying to define their sound. The commercial influences are stronger than ever; from the anthemic Take On the World to the ballad, Evening Star. However, Judas Priest's aggression is not lost and is shown quite clearly in tracks like Hell Bent For Leather and Delivering the Goods. The progressive elements are pretty much completely gone at this point though, with the band now opting for shorter and simpler structures and themes.
Stained Class had only been out for 6 months when Judas Priest got to work on a followup. For the first time, they were recording with the same lineup as the previous album. The result is a more comfortable sounding band and probably the most refined Judas Priest sound so far. For a producer, they went with James Guthrie who worked on their Better By You, Better Than Me cover.
Killing Machine saw the band embrace the mainstream more than ever before. Priest was filming music videos for the first time, appearing on Top of the Pops and writing stadium rock anthems. They had always been an album orientated band, releasing only one or two singles per album. This album had 3 singles though: Rock Forever, Take On the World and Evening Star. Take On the World proved to be a success for the band, charting at number 14 on the UK Top 40. It was the first Priest single to chart. Unfortunately though, it didn't go on to become the singalong classic that they were hoping for.
The band hadn't appeared on British TV since 1975 when they performed on The Old Grey Whistle Test. They made their long awaited return in 1978 when they performed on Top of the Pops for the first time. Although a mimed performance, people got to take a look at the band's new look and helped propel their eventual mainstream success. Not all features from the new Judas Priest live show were featured though, as Rob Halford wasn't allowed to use his whip due to objections from Marie Osmond, who was sharing the stage with Judas Priest.
The whips and leather weren't the only new addition to Judas Priest's stage show; this also saw the debut of Halford's motorcycle, which he bought for only $1. The company who sold hoped that it would serve as a promotional tool for their sinking business. Halford was also known to shoot blanks from a machine gun into the audience during Genocide. However this received complaints from the fire marshall and was quickly put to an end.
Killing Machine marked the start of a new era for the band. One filled with mainstream success, classic albums, and memorable world tours. The band was instrumental in making Heavy Metal a genre that could be enjoyed by the masses and Killing Machine is the start of that. This album may be overshadowed by its followup, but it very much sets the stage for British Steel and the 80's in general.
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Unleashed in the East (1979)
As the decade began to draw to a close and with 5 albums under their belt, it became time for Judas Priest to release their very first live album. Recorded live in Japan, Unleashed in the East has gone on to become a classic live album. It covers a good chunk of material, although it has nothing from the debut and is oddly lacking in material from the most recent album: Killing Machine. The original album only had 2 Killing Machine songs! Although the Japanese version contained a bonus 7" with 4 extra songs, including 3 from that album. These extra songs were later included on the 2001 remaster.
What I find particularly strange is the lack of Take On the World, given the band's intention of making it into a live favorite. Putting it on the live album would've probably helped its status.
The album is heavy on Sin After Sin and Sad Wings Of Destiny material though, which is nice because we get to hear how refined these songs have become after a few years. Especially the Sad Wings songs are heavily improved compared to their studio counterparts. The improved production also helps quite a bit.
Like most live albums, the authenticity of this recording remains to be a point of controversy among fans. Rob Halford eventually confirmed that while the music was indeed recorded live, the vocals had to be redone due to him suffering from a cold that compromised his performance.
Unleashed in the East became a massive success for the band. It was their highest selling album to date, reaching the US Top 100, the UK Top 10, and even achieved platinum status. It was the first of only 5 Judas Priest albums to do so. It remains a favorite among fans and is considered one of the classic live albums.
Sadly, this would go on to be the last release to feature Les Binks. With the band's increasingly commercial direction, the need was for less technical drumming and a more direct, simpler style. Binks and the band agreed that it was time to move on and the band began searching for a new drummer. Fortunately, he was not forgotten and his playing on the three albums he appeared on is still loved by the fans.
Binks stayed active after Judas Priest and was even a brief member of Lionheart in 1981 with Dennis Stratton from Iron Maiden. He's been in a number of bands in the British Metal underground and also worked with Tony Parsons, another Maiden veteran. Before Judas Priest, he played on Roger Glover's The Butterfly Ball and the Grasshopper's Feast, a concept album that was eventually staged in an opera. This album also featured the talents of Glenn Hughes, David Coverdale, and Ronnie James Dio.
terrell39
Ancient Mariner
Nostradamus - saw them on this tour but it was on the Metal Masters leg where they only played Prophecy. On other legs they also played Death. Not a fan of that song though. Takes too long to get to the payoff at the end of the song. The last song on each disc are the ones that should have been played live. I also like the song Revelations.
Sin After Sin (1977)
After a bunch of listens, I think I slightly prefer this to Sad Wings, but only because it's more consistent. The high points on the previous album are higher, but overall this album manages to stay at a relatively solid level throughout. After listening to these 3 albums I've come to a conclusion that I hope will get proved wrong as I keep listening: Judas Priest simply does not have the same grasp on melody as Iron Maiden. Deep down, this may be why it's taken me so long to give them a fair shot. They often have the same amount of power, of force, or heaviness, but the pure instinct for melody is not there in either the riffs or the melodies and it takes me a lot longer to appreciate each song because of that fact.
Something I immediately noticed and loved about this album: double bass! Holy crap, this is 1977 and there's double bass! Nice work, Priest.
Sinner - 7/10
It's got a nice drive to kick things off. The chorus is really unique and the post-chorus riff is powerful as hell! The very first riff section in the bridge is awesome, I love it. That said, the dated production and tight playing on this song really fight against Halford trying to be epic, he sounds like he's forcing it. I'll bet this one comes off better with a post-70's, heaver live production. Sinner definitely overstays its welcome, mostly in the long whammy bar section where Halford's voice is pretty annoying. This song could have been much better if it shot straight to an upbeat solo and cut at least a minute off the run time.
Diamonds & Rust - 9/10
I know it's a cover, but I really like when this band plays a straightforward driving song. The melodies are catchy, the drive is there, it sounds like a metal band playing a folky pop tune and I dig it. Also, double bass!
Starbreaker - 6/10
This song is lame. It's not terrible, but it just reeks of cheese. There's a nice drive to it and it adds to the pantheon of Judas Priest "-er" titled songs (how many do they have?!), but again it's too long and could have lost a minute for sure. The claps during the chorus are simply too much. The dual guitar bridge, however, is awesome!
Last Rose of Summer - 3/10
Boring track. I've heard better metal ballads (there's one on this album) and I've heard far, far better 70's pop/rock songs. It's too long, it's unremarkable. There's really nothing to talk about here.
Let Us Prey/Call for the Priest - 9/10
Here we go! Slow, Super Mario Bros. buildup with lots of drama, badass second half. I'm in! Love the double bass throughout and I really like the structure of "verse/whooooooooooaaaaa" instead of really having a chorus. This tune has a lot of get up and go. The major guitar and vocal part in the bridge is really cool, but definitely odd. It fits the theme, though, and recalls the intro, so it works. I still think this song doesn't have enough variation to justify its length, but I enjoy it. Easily the best song yet. Which guitarist is abusing the whammy bar like Janick in this band? Cause I prefer the other one. Also, I know Halford loves innuendo...is this song about priests diddling kids?
Raw Deal - 8/10
Great groove, cool riffs. I can definitely see where younger metal bands took inspiration for groovier tracks like this, especially guys like Armored Saint and Clutch. The verses are bluesy and slinky, with a lot of attitude. Halford is positively evil on those pre-chorus sections, but he gets a little insufferable when he does those rushed, "performance" vocals in the second verse. The chorus is strange and kind of sucks some energy out of the song. The chorus and the unnecessary track length (again) drop a point off this song for me.
Here Come the Tears - 7/10
I like this song, even though it doesn't do anything new in the realm of power ballads. The beginning sounds like a clear inspiration for most Steve Harris' Maiden ballads (Remember Tomorrow, Afraid to Shoot Strangers). The dramatic build of this tune is nice, I just wish the lyrics were less pedestrian. Tears, sad, alone, crying, blah blah blah...it's all too simplistic for me. Sure, there's something to be said for raw emotion with raw lyrics, but I'd like a little more. The solo is epic, the chanting is epic, Halford sounds great in his normal range, but the shrieking is a bit...shrieky. For the only time on this album, however, a song is the exact length it should be.
Dissident Aggressor - 9/10
I assume this is a fan favorite? The main riff is crushing and Halford is in full Halford mode. It's certainly heavier than anything had the right to be in 1977 and I definitely love it, but I simply cannot get over those horribly lame pre-chorus lines: "Stab! Punch!" It's just so cheesy. Everything else is pure greatness.
Album rating - 7.3/10
While everyone else was checking out Firepower, I finally got around to this.
Sin After Sin is an immense album and in my Judas Priest holy trinity. They took all the positive qualities of the previous two albums while removing most of the fat and upping the heaviness. It hits that sweet spot where they're writing good songs but not going too far in a contrived commercial direction, which few Priest albums accomplish. It's dark and heavy but also catchy with some great melodic moments. If it weren't for Raw Deal and Here Comes the Tears, this album would be a 10/10. Those two songs are pretty plodding and dull, Raw Deal in particular feels like a bad Rocka Rolla leftover and is totally out of place on the album.
The drumming on this album also deserves mention. Probably the best drumming on a Priest record other than Painkiller and it came from a session musician! Simon Phillips is a monster and I think it's ironic that a session musician with a Jazz background probably influenced Metal drums as much as (if not more than) anyone else. @Forostar is this the first prominent use of double bass in a Metal album? It's all over this, in over half the songs.
I never really understood why Sinner didn't catch on the way Victim of Changes did. It's quite clearly a spiritual successor but it refines virtually every element of that track. The only thing it's really missing is the dramatic Halford shriek, but it's not like Halford doesn't give an incredible performance on the rest of the track. Love the sublime middle section and the heavy buildup when the bass drum kicks in. A relentlessly heavy track that really shows how ahead of the curve Priest were. Call For the Priest is along similar lines. Love that reprise of the intro with the twin guitars. It is kinda happy sounding but it works.
The album also marks the beginning of Priest's more commercial side. Starbreaker is a great short rocker that would've been a Priest classic had it been on British Steel or Screaming For Vengeance. Totally hints at what the band would eventually become. I love the call and response bridge between the vocals and guitars. Diamonds and Rust stands as one of the greatest covers of all time, of any genre. They took that song and completely made it their own.
I actually really like Last Rose of Summer. It was a grower, but I've come to appreciate the dreamy guitars and Halford's smooth vocals. It's a necessary break after the heaviness of the previous three songs. It's no Dreamer Deceiver, but it's a competent ballad. I love the buildup of the end chorus with the change in drum patterns and keyboard flourishes.
Speaking of keyboard flourishes, Sin After Sin is a great headphones album. One thing Priest don't get enough credit for, especially in the 70s, is their attention to sonic detail. There are a lot of really nice moments that grab the listener's attention in otherwise standard songs. Take the breaks in Starbreaker for example, or the lead guitar that creeps into Last Rose of Summer. They are tiny details but they make a lot of songs more memorable than they would be otherwise.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
I've tried to figure this out as well. It all depends on how to define "prominent" and "metal". ;-)
I don't think anything in earlier world history sounded so metal as Sabbath and Priest did, and certainly not with such use of double bass.
So yeah, I'd say metal with double bass was born in 1977, with this album.
However, this is the earliest example in rock music I'm aware of:
Band: Deep Purple
Recorded September 1970 – June 1971:
Song: Fireball
Album: Fireball
Simon Phillips has Ian Paice as one of his influences. Ian Paice's influences include some jazz drummers.
We must realize that the use of double bass (and basically all other drum techniques) did originate from jazz.
Louie Bellson (drummer for Duke Ellington) used it prominently in his solos, in the early fifties. A big pioneer on double bass.
Listen two minutes ==> check between the 5th and 7th minute here (this sounds like metal drums!):
And there's double bass drums on Mahavishnu Orchestra's Birds of Fire (the title track) from 1973. One of the drummers Simon Phillips was incluenced by is Billy Cobham:
Besides Mahavishnu Orchestra and Deep Purple, I'd like to know more double bass examples in rock (cross-over) music from pre-1977.
@Mosh Both Ian Paice(!) and Simon Phillips were influenced by Tommy Aldrigde. He was vital I think.
So these 5 names keep popping up:
Louis Bellson / Tommy Aldridge / Ian Paice / Billy Cobham / Simon Phillips.
I'd like to listen to more seventies records with Aldrigde and Phillips to find more of their double bass.
Check this performance:
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Saapanael
Ancient Mariner
Sin After Sin is indeed a great rockin' album, especially the opening trio of Sinner, Diamonds and Rust, and Starbreaker. I would like to hear the original as I currently have the remastered version, which of course doesn't sound as bad as some of the other Priest remasters.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
@MrKnickerbocker don't check this yet. It's just other people their opinions but I'd like to see yours before you're hearing all this.
Meanwhile perhaps some find this amusing:
"a debate on the best of their extensive discography. Host Sam Dunn welcomes back author Martin Popoff for a live debate on the Top 5 Priest albums.
Meanwhile perhaps some find this amusing:
"a debate on the best of their extensive discography. Host Sam Dunn welcomes back author Martin Popoff for a live debate on the Top 5 Priest albums.
Vantage Point
Educated Fool
Thanks for the link to the Banger TV programme on the Priest albums, just had it on and really enjoyed it. Wasn’t aware of this channel until now, but will be looking it through it to see if there is any other stuff worth watching.
Good catch. Definitely influential in the way Sin After Sin was and I don't know of any notable Metal drummers who weren't influenced by Ian Paice. Birds of Fire is another good call, definitely among the heaviest non-metal albums. Hadn't heard Louie Bellson do double bass before, although I have several Ellington records and may have missed it. I might have to look more into that stuff.
As for Tommy Aldridge, check this out:
There are two things I've noticed about Sin After Sin that sets it apart. The first is that the double bass seems to follow the heavy sixteenth and triplet patterns from the guitars. Second, the double bass appears several times throughout the album and not just one song. It's more of a defining feature in Sin After Sin matches the heaviness of the other instruments. The "package" that you refer to.
Love this YouTube channel. There are several videos that deal with Priest on there. Martin Popoff also has a lot of interesting insight into the history of Metal. There was one where they talked about the lineage of speed Metal and he made a strong case for Exciter being the birth of the genre.
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
I'm on my second listen of Stained Class and please someone tell me there's a remaster? The songwriting here sounds awesome, but the production is atrocious! Guitars are thinner than crap and often seem to be turned down mid-song...
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
The versions I found seem to be the original masters, I don’t hear any clear “remastered” qualities in them. That said, man, this album would sound so much better with a remix.
Cornfed Hick
Ancient Mariner
This was interesting. I don't know much about Martin Popoff but I totally agree with him in his choice of top album -- it's mine too. And comparing certain 80s Priest albums to Kiss - as an insult - was great. I intend to read more from him. He's evidently Canadian, like Dunn, but I won't hold that against him.
No, eh?He's evidently Canadian, like Dunn, but I won't hold that against him.
Cornfed Hick
Ancient Mariner
The production was pretty stripped down, I think the original CD sounds better than the remaster (my general advice is to stay very far away from the Priest remasters) and is probably the best digital version. If you can't get hold of an original vinyl LP in good condition, this version sounds very good, but isn't cheap: https://www.discogs.com/Judas-Priest-Killing-Machine/release/5887171.
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Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Hmm, I never felt anything bad about this particular album's production. Looking forward to continue this and hear your opinion on this album @MrKnickerbocker !
Ziggyplayedguitar
Educated Fool
My vinyl sounds pretty thin too, the last time I heard Killing Machine it wasn’t the best either. Never heard the remasteres so can’t comment...but they look cheaply done..
My vinyls are originals bought in '81. Stained Class has a thinnish production by Dennis Mackay, bar the track 'Better by You' solely produced by James Guthrie who went on to produce Killing Machine which has a much fatter, more modern sound.
I gave Stained Class a spin recently. I've never been crazy about it, and apart from Realms and the aforementioned Better, still ain't(Exciter best on Unleashed).
I gave Stained Class a spin recently. I've never been crazy about it, and apart from Realms and the aforementioned Better, still ain't(Exciter best on Unleashed).