If Maiden played Bruce's solo songs live...
- Thread starter SinisterMinisterX
- Start date
LooseCannon said:
Not that this is a perfect measure, but we could look at the Survivors:
Iron Maiden - average 23.7 voters per round
Bruce Dickinson - average 12.6
No other band is in double digits. The next highest is AC/DC at 8.2.
I wouldn't base that on survivor. Alot of people on the forum havn't listened to Bruce. I remember alot of members discovering Bruce around the time TFF was about to leak. I didn't vote much in the bruce survivor because i didn't have SW AOB or CW. I voted toward the end when I got those albumr a few weeks ago. Also compared to maiden bruce is for the most part B rate. Only AOB and CW stand up to most maiden.
Travis The Dragon
AFTERGLOW!!!
Quite a few years back, I borrowed BTP someone and he thought it sounded exactly like Maiden. 
chaosapiant
Ancient Marinade
I find Nicko's drumming is FAR superior to anything on Bruce's solo stuff. And of course Steve is the best bassist in the world. Bruce's solo material has amazing vocal and guitar work, but the rhythm section is steady at best, kinda basic and gets the job done. Whenever I listen to CW or AOB, i'm always thinking how much better they'd be with Steve's throbbing bass lines and Nicko's manic, over the top drumming.
Donner
Ancient Mariner
To my ears it's clear who the songwriters in the respective bands are. Maiden is very rhythmically interesting and varied and you can hear that Steve is the main songwriter.
On the other hand, Bruce's solo stuff is (and deservedly so) a bit more vocal and riff centric as they are collaborations between Bruce and a guitarist (Roy Z for the most part).
I think Road to Hell, The Tower, Darkside of Aquarius and Jerusalem would work well as Maiden numbers.
On the other hand, Bruce's solo stuff is (and deservedly so) a bit more vocal and riff centric as they are collaborations between Bruce and a guitarist (Roy Z for the most part).
I think Road to Hell, The Tower, Darkside of Aquarius and Jerusalem would work well as Maiden numbers.
bornless1
Messiah Supreme. True Leader of Men.
+ 1 chaos.
Yes the bass line is lacking always in Bruce's solo stuff. It is not Maiden at the bass line, and the complexity and depth. The lyrics, drums,and guitar parts are often excellent, and some solos are super as well. But it always seems to sound emptier than Maiden, and bordered a little too much on thrash/speed metal at times. Which I like, but is down the ladder from Maiden for me. I always thought Abduction is so ...awesome, Maiden worthy.
Yes the bass line is lacking always in Bruce's solo stuff. It is not Maiden at the bass line, and the complexity and depth. The lyrics, drums,and guitar parts are often excellent, and some solos are super as well. But it always seems to sound emptier than Maiden, and bordered a little too much on thrash/speed metal at times. Which I like, but is down the ladder from Maiden for me. I always thought Abduction is so ...awesome, Maiden worthy.
Good for them. I am not denying the popularity of Bruce's solo albums (specifically AOB and TCW) among hardcore metal fans , i am saying that these albums didn't really help Bruce form a huge career as a solo act (and that's a common thing with most albums Roy z has been involved, from the Halford albums to Helloween's "The dark ride" , the internet hardcore community hails them as classics but the albums have failed commercially ) . I also have to add that for me AOB sounds like b'rate classic Maiden stuff and i won't even comment on TCW cause i really despise the sound of that album (just like i despise the downtuning sound of everything from nevermore to the slayer albums of the nineties )LooseCannon said:
The rest about how the drumming in Bruce's albums is even comparable to Maiden's stuff , i find crazy to be honest. The drumming in Maiden's stuff is beautiful and stands out , you really pay attention to it, the drumming in Bruce's stuff is the definition of generic.
____no5
Free Man
Commercial success means nothing, or we would be a batch of Ozzyfans here.
I don't know how you can say that. To me those two albums -and especially The Wedding- are greater than almost everything released after 7th Son. And yes. Back then, I didn't even bother to listen to Bruce's material, like I did for Blaze later. Too bad for me, cause both and especially Bruce, released some very remarkable stuff. To me, Birth & Wedding are masterpieces and I find it strange that someone from the Maiden community can dislike them.
johnglen said:
I don't know how you can say that. To me those two albums -and especially The Wedding- are greater than almost everything released after 7th Son. And yes. Back then, I didn't even bother to listen to Bruce's material, like I did for Blaze later. Too bad for me, cause both and especially Bruce, released some very remarkable stuff. To me, Birth & Wedding are masterpieces and I find it strange that someone from the Maiden community can dislike them.
Dr. Eddies Wingman
Brighter than thousand_suns
GuineaPig said:
I wouldn't call that a maybe. Doesn't Adrian use drop D on a variety of Maiden songs live these days? Janick has also used it, for the intro of The Legacy.
chaosapiant
Ancient Marinade
Well, to at least explain my stance on the drumming, here goes: Nicko is an "exciting" drummer to listen to. I never know what he is going to do next, honestly. Fast double bass drummers with fast and technical hands as well are a dime a dozen these days in the world of extreme metal. I listen to a lot of blackmetal, so speed and technique don't impress me so much anymore. I like a drummer that has a unique sound. Nicko, Neil Peart, the dude from Mastodon, the drummer in Clutch, and Kato from Enslaved. These drummers to me exude a lot of passion and interesting playing, especially in the more complex music they play. I'd also mention Mike Portnoy, but I don't listen to Dream Theater, though i'm aware he's great. And I've seen him live, so that helps too.
Me myself, I am not a drummer. I only know what I hear. And when I was younger, Nicko was very boring for me, for the exact same reasons he's my favorite drummer now. I thought he sounded too "old fashioned" with his over the top fills, and lack of double bass. Now I can't figure out what I was thinking.
Dave Ingraham is a great, solid drummer, and I take nothing away from him. But these days, great solid drummers are a dime a dozen, and if you replaced him with any other extreme metal drummer in Bruce's solo material, I couldn't tell the difference. I'm also aware that the "tribe of gypsies" plays very different music to Bruce's metal, and that Dave may be very well more versatile than I give credit for, but i'm only judging the material I hear on Bruce's albums. They are solid, well performed, and ultimately get the job done.
Me myself, I am not a drummer. I only know what I hear. And when I was younger, Nicko was very boring for me, for the exact same reasons he's my favorite drummer now. I thought he sounded too "old fashioned" with his over the top fills, and lack of double bass. Now I can't figure out what I was thinking.
Dave Ingraham is a great, solid drummer, and I take nothing away from him. But these days, great solid drummers are a dime a dozen, and if you replaced him with any other extreme metal drummer in Bruce's solo material, I couldn't tell the difference. I'm also aware that the "tribe of gypsies" plays very different music to Bruce's metal, and that Dave may be very well more versatile than I give credit for, but i'm only judging the material I hear on Bruce's albums. They are solid, well performed, and ultimately get the job done.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
I must say you wrote that well and I agree with many things in it. But the music and the role of the drums is important as well.
These comments are important when we compare Maiden and Bruce's solo music:
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Yes. Bruce's stuff is built around guitar riffs, so the guitars are more prominent, or have more freedom (I remember that Steve once said that H complained in the past that the guitars have not as much freedom in Maiden), and the rhythm section "plays along". I even think that on TCW the bass was recorded after the guitars. This guitar orientated style, that happens often in metal, look at Priest e.g., and countless of other bands.
On the other hand we have Maiden who are one of the minority category bands in hardrock/metal where the rhythm section has the leading role. So both of these styles of music should be seen in their own perspective. Nicko's drumming is more prominent because he has an important "matching" role with 'Arry's bass. In Rush it's the same. Peart doesn't get credits for the music in Rush, but he surely composes his highly interesting patterns, which are very dependent on Geddy Lee's stimulating bass lines. With all respect to Lifeson, I also think Rush is a rhythm section band, where (especially in the eighties) the guitar plays a less prominent role.
Back the Bruce. This music indeed needs a stable drummer, one who can play tight in constant mode. This might sound less exciting but therefore it isn't way easier. The drummer has to drive the rest of the band in this kind of music. Nicko can do that too, but often he varies (indeed you can't predict what he does) and this wouldn't fit to this kind of music, I think. Besides, in live situations Nicko is known for making mistakes now and then, so in that perspective he isn't one of the most stable drummers.
What I try to explain (also in earlier posts) is that the styles of metal are different, each need their own qualities.
I also find Maiden's style, and Nicko's style more special, but I wouldn't say that the other category is b-rate. It's different and more demanding on other aspects.
These comments are important when we compare Maiden and Bruce's solo music:
chaosapiant said:
+
Donner said:
Yes. Bruce's stuff is built around guitar riffs, so the guitars are more prominent, or have more freedom (I remember that Steve once said that H complained in the past that the guitars have not as much freedom in Maiden), and the rhythm section "plays along". I even think that on TCW the bass was recorded after the guitars. This guitar orientated style, that happens often in metal, look at Priest e.g., and countless of other bands.
On the other hand we have Maiden who are one of the minority category bands in hardrock/metal where the rhythm section has the leading role. So both of these styles of music should be seen in their own perspective. Nicko's drumming is more prominent because he has an important "matching" role with 'Arry's bass. In Rush it's the same. Peart doesn't get credits for the music in Rush, but he surely composes his highly interesting patterns, which are very dependent on Geddy Lee's stimulating bass lines. With all respect to Lifeson, I also think Rush is a rhythm section band, where (especially in the eighties) the guitar plays a less prominent role.
Back the Bruce. This music indeed needs a stable drummer, one who can play tight in constant mode. This might sound less exciting but therefore it isn't way easier. The drummer has to drive the rest of the band in this kind of music. Nicko can do that too, but often he varies (indeed you can't predict what he does) and this wouldn't fit to this kind of music, I think. Besides, in live situations Nicko is known for making mistakes now and then, so in that perspective he isn't one of the most stable drummers.
What I try to explain (also in earlier posts) is that the styles of metal are different, each need their own qualities.
I also find Maiden's style, and Nicko's style more special, but I wouldn't say that the other category is b-rate. It's different and more demanding on other aspects.