Iced Earth

Is it too early to speculate on what is going to happen with Iced Earth? Jon might be facing a 10-20 year prison sentence, but he also could get out on bail or get out early on parole. Considering he turned himself in, there is probably some sort of plea deal he’s gunning for. Besides, he wouldn’t be the first musician to work from prison (see also: Vaarg Vilkernes and Charles Manson, good company!)

But lets say Schaffer gets out at a reasonable time, within the next ten years. Plenty of time to continue music endeavors. Does he form a brand new version of Iced Earth? Does Stu Block decide to stay in? Is this the event needed to bring Barlow back?

Foro is also right that Iced Earth technically doesn’t need a label. I imagine Schaffer has a home studio. We’ve also seen that he is capable of Kickstarting projects, although he might have less fans who are willing to throw money his way now. Not having a label will make it harder to get into festivals or take part in viable touring packages in the USA. Granted, bear spraying cops at an insurrection against the USA might also make it harder to do those things.

If Iced Earth is to continue, this is undoubtedly going to affect the band’s branding. Remember Sons of Liberty? I fully expect Schaffer’s music to get even more political and for the next album, whether it’s Iced Earth or something else, to be filled with right wing propaganda about globalists, the coming second civil war, and not backing down from the authoritarian government.
 
Good questions, @Mosh. I've been thinking about it, and in each case, it could go any way from now.

Mosh said:
Is it too early to speculate on what is going to happen with Iced Earth? Jon might be facing a 10-20 year prison sentence, but he also could get out on bail or get out early on parole. Considering he turned himself in, there is probably some sort of plea deal he’s gunning for. Besides, he wouldn’t be the first musician to work from prison (see also: Vaarg Vilkernes and Charles Manson, good company!)
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It's possible that he will get a short sentence, spend maybe one or two years in prison and then get out on parole. He's white and he turned himself in, that will no doubt work in his favour. He might spend his time in prison writing new music, or maybe a book.
Then again, his photo is all over the media. He is one of the faces of the riot, so maybe he won't get off that lightly after all.

Mosh said:
But lets say Schaffer gets out at a reasonable time, within the next ten years. Plenty of time to continue music endeavors. Does he form a brand new version of Iced Earth? Does Stu Block decide to stay in? Is this the event needed to bring Barlow back?
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I see two possibilities: 1. Iced Earth are over for now. He might revive Sons of Liberty or form a new solo project. Maybe in five years he'll dip his toe in the water and see if there are any buyers. 2. He continues Iced Earth with a completely new lineup as if nothing happened to keep the brand alive. In that case it will be a much smaller Iced Earth though, and I think he can forget about touring in Europe.
As for Barlow, I think he's in a really messy situation. He's on record being close to Schaffer personally, and I'm sure that there have been talks with him at work. Barlow probably can't afford doing anything with Schaffer going forward if he wants to keep his job.

Mosh said:
Foro is also right that Iced Earth technically doesn’t need a label. I imagine Schaffer has a home studio. We’ve also seen that he is capable of Kickstarting projects, although he might have less fans who are willing to throw money his way now. Not having a label will make it harder to get into festivals or take part in viable touring packages in the USA. Granted, bear spraying cops at an insurrection against the USA might also make it harder to do those things.
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I really don't think Iced Earth, if the band is continued, will get a major tour anytime soon. No major festival in Europe will book them either. Schaffer probably knows this. He will probably crowdfund his activities from now on, whatever they are. And he'll probably use alt-right media and Alex Jones interviews for promotion because, let's face it, that's all he will get. But that's also going to be his fanbase from now on and they'll fund him just fine.
Then again, he probably didn't lose his European audience entirely. He probably won't be able to play in Germany, France or Scandinavia, and those will surely hurt him economically, but why would post-Brexit UK, Russia, or audiences in more polarised countries like Greece and Italy shun him?

Mosh said:
If Iced Earth is to continue, this is undoubtedly going to affect the band’s branding. Remember Sons of Liberty? I fully expect Schaffer’s music to get even more political and for the next album, whether it’s Iced Earth or something else, to be filled with right wing propaganda about globalists, the coming second civil war, and not backing down from the authoritarian government.
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I doubt that. Schaffer formed Sons of Liberty to leave Iced Earth unaffected by - in his words - politics. A new Iced Earth album would probably be in the same dystopian fantasy vein as the recent ones, but won't be openly conspiracist.
Then again, Schaffer is so deep in this shit now that he might no longer care to keep the brands distinct. He probably knows that he lost a lot of fans and the people buying his stuff now will be whackos. So what's the point in keeping QAnon out of Iced Earth?
 
It’s very likely that Schaffer turned himself in for a better plea deal, but I wonder if he wasn’t also feeling bitter about the whole coup thing as well. Maybe because the aftermath of taking part in it was a wake up call.......... or maybe because it was so inept that he’s angry at his own people and doesn’t trust them anymore. Idk I could be on a completely wrong track, but I’d rather be optimistic that maybe he’s at least had a change of heart about the whole riot event than pessimistic that he’s just going to get worse.
 
Diesel 11 said:
I wonder if he wasn’t also feeling bitter about the whole coup thing as well. Maybe because the aftermath of taking part in it was a wake up call.......... or maybe because it was so inept that he’s angry at his own people and doesn’t trust them anymore.
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I think this will be the case for a lot of Trump believers and especially some of the Qanon believers.

Many of these people thought the events on January 6th would see the victory of their movement, they thought Trump had a grand Plan, the Qanon folks were awaiting "The storm". Hell, there were people posting in Norwegian politics forums that Biden would never become President.

Obviously the aftermath of the Jan 6th insurrection must have been a wake-up call for many of these people, and the fact that Biden's inauguration happened as planned would wake up more of them.They are now forced to face the fact that their movement, if there was one, was not well coordinated. There was no great Plan, there was no revelation. There will be many disillusioned alt-right people. Maybe Schaffer is one of them Maybe he still believes. Time will tell.
 
Perun said:
However, I don't think having a debate is going too far in and of itself
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That was not what I meant - I meant thatcancelling literature events over something the author has said which can be seen as controversial, is going too far. After all, these events are about the books, not about the author.

A digression: There is another topic in Norwegian literature which is somewhat related. Knut Hamsun, the Nobel prize winning Norwegian author, did something much worse than stating something half controversial in the LGBT debate. He took sides with the Nazi occupants during WW2. Met with top Nazi leaders. During the first years after the war, many tried to paint Hamsun as senile, deranged, out of his mind - so that they could separate the prize winning author and pillar of modern Norwegian literature from the Nazi supporter. However, Hamsun wrote another book in his last years, proving that he was definitely aware of what was going on. To this day, it is a sensitive topic in Norway whether Hamsun should be celebrated or condemned. And I must say, some of his writing is truly great and it would be a shame to erase that from our cultural history because of his political views.
 
Perun said:
Good questions, @Mosh. I've been thinking about it, and in each case, it could go any way from now.



It's possible that he will get a short sentence, spend maybe one or two years in prison and then get out on parole. He's white and he turned himself in, that will no doubt work in his favour. He might spend his time in prison writing new music, or maybe a book.
Then again, his photo is all over the media. He is one of the faces of the riot, so maybe he won't get off that lightly after all.



I see two possibilities: 1. Iced Earth are over for now. He might revive Sons of Liberty or form a new solo project. Maybe in five years he'll dip his toe in the water and see if there are any buyers. 2. He continues Iced Earth with a completely new lineup as if nothing happened to keep the brand alive. In that case it will be a much smaller Iced Earth though, and I think he can forget about touring in Europe.
As for Barlow, I think he's in a really messy situation. He's on record being close to Schaffer personally, and I'm sure that there have been talks with him at work. Barlow probably can't afford doing anything with Schaffer going forward if he wants to keep his job.



I really don't think Iced Earth, if the band is continued, will get a major tour anytime soon. No major festival in Europe will book them either. Schaffer probably knows this. He will probably crowdfund his activities from now on, whatever they are. And he'll probably use alt-right media and Alex Jones interviews for promotion because, let's face it, that's all he will get. But that's also going to be his fanbase from now on and they'll fund him just fine.
Then again, he probably didn't lose his European audience entirely. He probably won't be able to play in Germany, France or Scandinavia, and those will surely hurt him economically, but why would post-Brexit UK, Russia, or audiences in more polarised countries like Greece and Italy shun him?



I doubt that. Schaffer formed Sons of Liberty to leave Iced Earth unaffected by - in his words - politics. A new Iced Earth album would probably be in the same dystopian fantasy vein as the recent ones, but won't be openly conspiracist.
Then again, Schaffer is so deep in this shit now that he might no longer care to keep the brands distinct. He probably knows that he lost a lot of fans and the people buying his stuff now will be whackos. So what's the point in keeping QAnon out of Iced Earth?
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Post-Brexit Britain is as horrified by the attempted coup as other Western democracies. Schaffer would play in toilets here after being released, if anywhere.
 
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Perun said:
or audiences in more polarised countries like Greece and Italy shun him?
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Say they don't. It's still impossible because IE needs to make a big European tour to connect everything logistically. They play club dates and you don't go on the other continent to play a show here and there. Also the bulk of their European touring was as support act so that'll be questionable too.

Also what Cain said above, maybe he earned a point here and there (Poland and Hungary), others are out of the question. Even the Greece <-> IE connection might not survive this.

However Schaffer can earn his living after this because if every IE fan drops him there'll still be millions of right wing anti goverment freaks in USA that he could live off from.
 
Dr. Eddies Wingman said:
And I must say, some of his writing is truly great and it would be a shame to erase that
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We just need to teach our kids to separate the man from his art. It is a great exercise in critical thinking. If you see someone at his craft doing it really well, you don't need to automatically listen to what he has to say on taxes.

Also, deplatforming is not deleting. When you take a statue down you don't erase the entry on the statue or the person from the encyclopedia. Just don't celebrate someone that is clearly in the grey zone or worse.
 
Zare said:
IE needs to make a big European tour to connect everything logistically.
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How's that? When Saga (Canadian band) came to Europe in the last 20, 30 years, they only went to Germany and Holland. Definitely not a successful band later in their career. In fact, in their last decades they were only somewhat popular in these nations and not in their own country anymore. Going to one or two countries per "tour" is possible.
 
Depending on if he's convicted, and what charges he gets convicted of, I can't imagine he'd have an easy time getting a visa.
 
Forostar said:
How's that? When Saga (Canadian band) came to Europe in the last 20, 30 years, they only went to Germany and Holland. Definitely not a successful band later in their career. In fact, in their last decades they were only somewhat popular in these nations and not in their own country anymore. Going to one or two countries per "tour" is possible.
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Saga at one point was on a German label, which may have helped there. I do think it’s possible though if you bring a small production and are able to use the gear in the venue.
 
Forostar said:
How's that? When Saga (Canadian band) came to Europe in the last 20, 30 years, they only went to Germany and Holland. Definitely not a successful band later in their career. In fact, in their last decades they were only somewhat popular in these nations and not in their own country anymore. Going to one or two countries per "tour" is possible.
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Germany is a big country and one of the world's biggest markets for rock music, so going all the way to Europe for an extensive German tour makes sense. For a small country like Greece, not so much. Thinking about it, I agree with @Zare and @GhostofCain that it is highly unlikely to happen, I was just tossing some thoughts out.
 
Perun said:
Germany is a big country and one of the world's biggest markets for rock music, so going all the way to Europe for an extensive German tour makes sense. For a small country like Greece, not so much. Thinking about it, I agree with @Zare and @GhostofCain that it is highly unlikely to happen, I was just tossing some thoughts out.
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I would like to add that the average Brexit voter is unlikely to be part of the potential Iced Earth fan base in the UK.
 
Forostar said:
How's that? When Saga (Canadian band) came to Europe in the last 20, 30 years, they only went to Germany and Holland. Definitely not a successful band later in their career. In fact, in their last decades they were only somewhat popular in these nations and not in their own country anymore. Going to one or two countries per "tour" is possible.
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Germany and Holland are in the middle of the most dense Europe. If you rent a house somewhere in Frankfurt countryside you can play a date in Benelux, Germany, Austria, Switzerland and complete Northern France, get "home" and still have 8 hours sleep until early afternoon. You cover 100+ million people.

The amount of people living there, plus the quality of the infrastructure, availability of high speed trains, airport in every larger town, motorways everywhere. And for logistics the economy of scale works. When it isn't relative to standard because you're paid in local currency at a local concert cost, moving cargo around France is actually cheaper and way more reliable than somewhere less developed.

Perun's suggestion is about several disjoint countries in south, central europe and beyond.

In reality, if you fly between Moldova and Chad the cost of the plane is same or higher as flying between London and New York. But in the latter the financial opportunities are astronomical in comparison. And Perun suggests that a lot of connected, contiguous, powerful markets of millions of people are going to shun IE.
 
Saga have a niche audience, maybe that's accepted by whoever promotes their tours, or else it's done on the cheap the way small bands do it, like Mosh says.
 
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