Mega said:
You're right. Those people shouldn't be forgiven. And they aren't. Only in 2009, an 89-year old former SS officer was put on trial in Munich. In 2010, the Bavarian state reopened investigations against an 88-year old former SS officer.
Hitler's last bodyguard gives up on fan mail
- Thread starter bearfan
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You're right. Those people shouldn't be forgiven. And they aren't. Only in 2009, an 89-year old former SS officer was put on trial in Munich. In 2010, the Bavarian state reopened investigations against an 88-year old former SS officer.
SixesAlltheway
Ancient Mariner
It reminds me of this story http://www.jweekly.com/article/full/598 ... s-horrors/ , the last 2 survivors from the Polish death camp Treblinka...
It is thought provoking that soon there will be no one alive on earth who have witnessed the holocaust...Just pages in history books.
It is thought provoking that soon there will be no one alive on earth who have witnessed the holocaust...Just pages in history books.
Forostar said:
I think that may be unfair. First, remember that Mega is 18, and at that age, we all are very aggressive in our views.
Mega, you have to understand that some of the things you are saying are offensive to some people. I understand what you are feeling, but maybe the "We won't forget, we wont forgive" statement should be used both ways: it was a horrible thing that happened and shouldn't be forgotten, but it should be remembered so that such a thing doesn't happen again. You can't change the past. But wishing the same death on others that your forefathers felt is only going to continue the struggle.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Wasted CLV said:
I am afraid that I see Mega as an exponent of what can happen with young people in Israel. It's a general problem, but when a member on this forum reveals that he is one (in my eyes), then it's not easy to leave some things unmentioned. Enough about him.
@Mega:
18 isn't a bad age to start learning more about other folk besides your own. In theory a 18 year old has time to learn more, but I am really afraid that your surroundings are not much of a big help. This indoctrination (forget and never forgive -> which continues to be projected on the Palestinian conflict) starts (and continues) at school, it probably also happens in the family and now you are in the military (I can't imagine that this is the best place to do individual research, free of government dogma's, and to develop new ideas).
A few weeks ago, I even saw examples of racism in the Israeli parliament!
These developments worry me and remind me of the things that happened before the WWII atrocities:
Israeli law limits Arab citizenship
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3111727.stm
This radical development really worries me, and Mega, I'm afraid that you will play a role in this. You might need to execute some terrible orders in the future, and I sure hope that this will be a strong guide in your life and work:
Eddies Wingman said:
Use your head and heart, goodluck.
I've said this before:
EVERYONE everywhere has atrocities in their history. Every single one of us comes from a nation that at some point has done something fucking horrible to other people. Canada attempted to breed out our native population, we interned and killed the Japanese in World War II, we didn't prohibit rape of a woman by her husband until 1986. And this country's only 150 years old.
We should be judged by our actions over a lifetime, not over what we did when we were young or old, but by how we live as an aggregate. People change over the run of their lives, most of us try to be better.
Mega, I am of the opinion that capital punishment is wrong. Period. Nobody should ever be executed for their crimes. And you're right; something as horrible as the Holocaust should never be forgotten, and those responsible should never be forgiven. But most of those responsible are long-since dead; as Perun has pointed out, trials against those who yet live continue. If this guy had been complicit in war crimes, he'd probably have been arrested and put on trial a long time ago. Chances are, he wasn't really anyone. He was the guy who said yes sir. Which is the guy you will be in a few months.
Foro, I don't think comparing Israel to Nazi Germany is ever going to win arguments with a person from Israel. While I agree that there are some similarities, there are also many differences. For instance, not too many Jews actually blew themselves up in Berlin in 1930. While most Palestinians just want to live, there's still enough causing trouble that security measures are rather more valid. The situations are somewhat similar, but we should avoid comparisons when comparisons aren't valid - and especially when those comparisons will inject unnecessary emotion into the debate. Which, with Israel, comparisons to Germany always will. Forever.
EVERYONE everywhere has atrocities in their history. Every single one of us comes from a nation that at some point has done something fucking horrible to other people. Canada attempted to breed out our native population, we interned and killed the Japanese in World War II, we didn't prohibit rape of a woman by her husband until 1986. And this country's only 150 years old.
We should be judged by our actions over a lifetime, not over what we did when we were young or old, but by how we live as an aggregate. People change over the run of their lives, most of us try to be better.
Mega, I am of the opinion that capital punishment is wrong. Period. Nobody should ever be executed for their crimes. And you're right; something as horrible as the Holocaust should never be forgotten, and those responsible should never be forgiven. But most of those responsible are long-since dead; as Perun has pointed out, trials against those who yet live continue. If this guy had been complicit in war crimes, he'd probably have been arrested and put on trial a long time ago. Chances are, he wasn't really anyone. He was the guy who said yes sir. Which is the guy you will be in a few months.
Foro, I don't think comparing Israel to Nazi Germany is ever going to win arguments with a person from Israel. While I agree that there are some similarities, there are also many differences. For instance, not too many Jews actually blew themselves up in Berlin in 1930. While most Palestinians just want to live, there's still enough causing trouble that security measures are rather more valid. The situations are somewhat similar, but we should avoid comparisons when comparisons aren't valid - and especially when those comparisons will inject unnecessary emotion into the debate. Which, with Israel, comparisons to Germany always will. Forever.
D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
Do you have any idea how many Slavic people died in WW2?
I haven't got any desire for revenge. We won. I only have desire for better education around the world, so young people won't be acceptive of totalitarian ideologies, regardless of what they've learned at home.
Zare said:
The simple truth. Thanks Zare - an excellent point of view.
Mega - I think that it is better if you participate in the discussion further. Not because I want you to change your opinions, but because it is good for you to explore your beliefs, and also what you've been taught. Not necessarily because I think you are right or wrong, but because the exercise in rhetoric is healthy for your mind. Rest assured that we won't allow the debate to become personal or offensive, and if you feel it has, let any mod know via pm. But it is good to think!