[Help] What is so special about Iron Maiden in your opinion

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No, no, you said pointS (plural); & that was prior to my post mentioning George Best! :p
But you don't need to admit I had some valid points, if you don't want to...
 
All right then. I agree that playing comes naturally to Dave and I might agree that in the early years he was the more accomplished (I'm not saying better, though!) guitarist. I admire the fact that he is able to improvise and make it sound good most of the times. Your most valid point, though, comes when you say that they are both very different. I don't have a problem with the fact that Dave is a great guitarist, I just happen to like Adrian and his sound better.

I don't agree that Adrian's sound is not distinct and that his tone isn't good. I for one love it. :D
 
I don't want to get too involved, as I think that Adrian and Dave are equally excellent guitarists (Janick is the 3rd best guitarist in the band, but it's pretty close), but I wanted to respond to a couple of points:

CriedWhenBrucieLeft said:
This is probably just personal opinion (previous point, & this one...), but H's tone/sound can be very thin live; Dave's guitar tone is far, far superior, to my ears. Just personal taste though.
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This is just interesting to me, not really trying to argue about it, but if anyone sounds thin live, to my ears, it's Dave. There's moments on En Vivo where I can hardly hear his solos over the drums, which I originally thought was a bad mix, but that occurred again when I saw them live on this tour. This is just my observations, though.

H is just really mechanical in comparison to Dave... [Dave's] style is far less mechanical...
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I don't know if you are or not, but are you suggesting that Adrian is dispassionate? He certainly looks the stoic on stage most of the time, but watching him during Paschendale on Death On the Road, you'll see him showing some emotion. Not sure if you were suggesting this, but if you were, it is certainly not true.
 
I can understand why people appreciate Adrian, but it is so obvious that Davey is a better lead guitarist. H has certainly improved over the years, but it's not a Slayer thing, where Hannemann has surpassed King by working. Dave has a personal sound, something H doesn't have. And I think it has some consequences on their songwriting : although it would be stupid to deny that H is a more consistent songwriter (but it's a case of quantity, not quality), H songs are kind of riffy, while Davey usually comes with more complex melodies and harmonies. There are some exceptions (TRoBB, Brighter than a TS), but it sounds to me that they simply approach the music as a whole in a different manner, and I just prefer Dave's.
 
harrisdevot said:
I can understand why people appreciate Adrian, but it is so obvious that Davey is a better lead guitarist. H has certainly improved over the years, but it's not a Slayer thing, where Hannemann has surpassed King by working. Dave has a personal sound, something H doesn't have.
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IMO it's completely opposite.
 
What's with all of you claiming that Adrian's sound is impersonal or not distinct or not special? That's just so wrong! Hell, I don't know a thing about guitar playing and Adrian was the first guitarist I could tell spot on!
 
It's not bashing him, it's just comparing. And I could add that I wouldn't mind him quiting again (or being sacked again), while seeing Dave leaving would be a blow. We just have different opinions, ad it's great like this.
 
Okay, okay --Davey & Adrian are what makes Maiden so special! :D

Look, they're both great --& clearly we all (except harrisdevot! :p) love aspects of both their playing. But I think I'm going to quit now, as I really don't think I can win this argument; Adrian would appear to be too good, & too well loved! :)
 
It's funny because I'm a vocalist person, not a guitarist person. Mostly because I personally cannot hear individuality in guitarists. I don't know why. I hear it sometimes, but usually, I can't find the nuances that everyone else can. Of course I can obviously tell vocalists apart because they all have totally different tones/phrasing/styles/etc. But it's difficult for me to notice the same things in guitar playing.

Adrian is one of the only exceptions. To my ears, he, Slash, Ritchie Blackmore, Randy Rhoads, Buckethead, and Yngwie Malmsteen are extremely distinctive. I can tell them in any song (not to say they're the only guitarists I like, but they're the only guitarists I can listen to and then say, "Oh. That's so-and-so on the guitar."). And they're some of the only guitarists who can distract me from the vocalist. Adrian is the star when I listen to Paschendale and Stranger in a Strange Land. His solos are so soulful to my ears.

I'm not taking anything away from Dave. I probably just don't pick up on him because I don't have the ear for him. There are times when he takes the spotlight, too (The Thin Line Between Love and Hate comes to mind, and I adore his Phantom solo), but it's just not quite like Adrian. Dave's great, but to me, Adrian's the special one.

I don't know who the most technically skilled one is between the two of them because I don't think there is any reliable way to measure that, so I won't argue that. But saying Adrian is thin, mechanical, and "not special" is laughable to me.

Just thought I'd share. I don't usually say much about guitarists, but Adrian is one of the only people I would defend like this. In fact, before Adrian, I didn't even care about guitarists at all.
 
I'd never say that but Live After Death certainly changed my attention because suddenly there were two. It turned out to be a great starter if you want to discover the individuals in Maiden (before that I knew some studio albums but in learning who's who LAD is one of the best).

Dave is at least as distinctive. Adrian's style and technique are unique. Dave's feel and sound are unique. Dave always sounded like the one who played with more ease. It's not that this was better thing, it's just very nice to have that besides Adrian's constructed solos. Dave was the one with the fluent touch, and the brighter sound. Take his slow solo on Powerslave or e.g. his solos on Judas My Guide or Weekend Warrior (check that build-up!). Or the openings of Deja-vu and Fates Warning. Very easy to recognize. I can even hear him in the Stars song (lead parts during choruses).

I am glad I enjoy all guitarists in Maiden. Makes the listening pleasure bigger than if I'd place one (way) higher above the other.

Janick's solos in The Pilgrim, Ghost of the Navigator, The Clansman & The Legacy are imo at least as impressive as Dave's and Adrian's work on these albums. The Final Frontier is an exception: Adrian shines more than the others. But on other albums I don't have that impression (though Somewhere in Time is a special case as well).

I enjoy the nineties albums without being bothered by Adrian's absence. I can enjoy The X-Factor without being bothered by Bruce's absence. I can enjoy Maiden's debut album without being bothered by Nicko's absence. I can enjoy Somewhere in Time without being bothered by Clive's absence. I can enjoy Powerslave without being bothered by Janick's absence. I'd be certainly bothered by Steve's absence. And I wonder if I'd be bothered without Dave's absence. I don't miss Dave on Bruce's solo albums but in Maiden? Harrisdevot got me thinking. Well, at least Maiden themselves never played a gig without Dave (since he's in the band) and that's something.
 
I enjoy all three for different reasons. In terms of just straight up playing, I enjoy Adrian a little more than Dave, but that's not to say I don't enjoy Dave. My point is that I can only identify Dave's playing through process of elimination unfortunately ("It's not Adrian, and it's not random, so it's not Janick; it must be Dave!). However, regardless of the guitarist's name, I do enjoy the solo. I just typically prefer Adrian's if I am forced to choose, and I can pick his out better. :) But Dave has some spectacular moments, too. Thin Line, Deja Vu, and Ben Breeg immediately pop to mind. I also love his Alexander stuff.

Janick shows his star quality to me through his songwriting. He's actually my second favorite songwriter in the group (just behind Bruce). I always liked him, but when I found out he wrote the lyrics to The Pilgrim, my respect for him skyrocketed. I've never been too keen on his solos (though I do like his Clansman, Pilgrim, and Legacy solos). I like his guitar playing, but not as much as Dave's and Adrian's. But he's written so many of my favorite songs that I place just as much importance on him as I do the other two. And he's the most fun to watch onstage, which is actually an important quality for me.

So I don't want it to come across as I'm slighting the other two by favoring Adrian. I love all three, but Adrian's just the one who got me to start paying attention to the guitar in songs in the first place, and to this day, he always demands my attention. That tone is just so gripping!
 
One of the things I like about Adrian are his longer, lower notes, often at the end of (segments of) his solos.
It's not a clean, straight tone. It buzzes if that's the right word. Also when playing harmonies, Adrian has often been the master of the lower realms. E.g. in DWYBO. (I also like his higher work and the build-ups of course)
 
Are we talking about the same two guitarists here?

Look, this isn't actually about defending Dave anymore, & isn't to do with actual playing --but Dave's tone (which you don't seem to hear) is very, very distinctive. If you hang around guitar forums (people talking about the tone various guitars make; what guitar such-&-such use(d); what pick-ups they have; the amps they use(d); etc) Maiden's guitar tone is always mentioned in the context of SiT; because that sound was a combination of effects, which is desirable, but tricky to nail down. But, that aside, loads of guitarists also mention Dave's tone --the sound his guitar makes, not (necessarily) how he plays. It's just an observation, but Adrian's tone (like Janick's) isn't mentioned in quite the same way. (Maybe these folk just don't listen to enought Maiden.) Either way, I'm really, really struggling to accept that you don't genuinely hear this. Adrian's style (how he moves around the fretboard & how he lingers on notes; his phrasing) is very distinctive (I hear this), but the sound his guitar makes (his set-up, the effects, the tone) is really, really, not --are you sure you're not confusing the two? This is not a put-down, "dissing" him, or even a criticism; just an observation. Adrian's playing (his technique) is what's distinct, I think.
 
I never said that Dave's playing isn't distinct. In fact, I mentioned in another thread that I believe when most people think of Maiden's sound, they actually mean Dave's sound. That's pretty obvious. Of course, all three Maiden guitarists have different styles and sounds. So in that respect it's not that I don't hear Dave or Janick. But to my ears, Adrian sounds the best, the most enjoyable if you like.

In one of your previous posts you were claiming that anyone could learn to play like Adrian and now you're saying that Adrian's playing is what's distinct. Which one is it?:p
 
Hehe... :D
[My last post was really aimed at Kill Devil Hill.]

I'm glad that you recognise the individual sound that is Dave's. And I appreciate that you, personally, prefer Adrian's.

Out of his (Adrian) tone & style I'm saying it's his style which is the more distinct, to him. I'm not saying his tone isn't recognisable, in the context of listening to Maiden, I'm just saying it's not a unique tone (by unique I mean seldom encountered; not truly "unique") by Metal standards. At least that's what I think. I've not been that clear; earlier posts were off the cuff & perhaps not as precise as I should have liked. I really mean, whether one likes Adrian's tone (the basic sound coming from his guitar [his set-up]), or not --it isn't (to me) that unfamiliar sounding. I'm trying to avoid saying "not unique", "not distinct" (as I said previously, to much annoyance). I mean, genuinely, it's a pretty typical "Metal" sound. I said "thin". That was a technical (perhaps I've misused it) description, meaning quite treble sounding (mid & high range) & clear; actually quite unforgiving if one makes mistakes. (Adrian sometimes uses [overuses some would say] his Wah to take some of the sharpness out of this.) He almost exclusively produces this sound using his bridge humbucker. When I bought my first guitar & plugged it into my new Peavey amp, pushed on the overdrive --this is what it sounded like. Hence why I say it's pretty standard sounding & not unique. Just my opinion. You still have to be as good a player as Adrian to actually sound like him though. Adrian didn't always sound like this (e.g. he didn't sound like this in SiT). But his guitar (to me) sounds like this now; especially live. Yes, you can easily identify his tone (& definitely his style) from the three guitarists. But the tone, to me, just isn't that interesting or individual (to guitarist generally).

Dave, on the other hand, doesn't really have a Metal tone, yet he plays in a Metal/Rock band. You could say it's blues sounding. Words to describe his lead tone would be "warm", "fat" (often used in association with the Strat sound), or "muddy". It's not really to everyone's liking. But this tone in combination with Davey's playing style (not particularly Metal in itself) to me is seldom encountered in that much Metal music. I don't really hear anyone else that sounds like this.

When I talked about learning to play, I was really talking about personal experience here. Some of Maiden's stuff sounds really hard, but isn't. Some of it sounds pretty easy, & turns out to be a lot trickier. The hardest part, for me, learning, is when you encounter a piece where there just isn't a "trick" being employed i.e. it sounds hard & is hard. I've said this before, on these forums, go on Youtube & you'll hear loads of folks (good & bad) doing Maiden "solos". Loads of people have nailed down Adrian leads, but few really nail down all of a Dave lead. That's a broad generalisation, of course. Also, hardly anyone's trying to knock out Janick's leads. To me this reinforces my already held believe that Adrian's guitar playing (particularly his lead work) is easier to learn (i.e. mimic/copy) than, for example, Dave's. Of course you could argue all these people just want to sound like Adrian & that this would be an argument for saying his whole sound is the more desirable. Maybe. But, personally, I just think loads of people pick up their guitar & quickly realise that most of Dave's trademark techniques (those wibbly runs, etc) are just damn hard to imitate. There's no trick. No sweep picking, no clever positioning, etc --he just plays those things that damn fast. Not to everyone's liking, but I admire this. It sounds hard & (I find) is hard. Doesn't make it better, I admit.

That said, Adrian utilises far more technique, to greater effect. Dave's sound is far narrower; some would say less interesting. But he does it very, very well. Janick's just something else entirely...
 
I've said it before: I cannot pick up on most guitarist's tones. While his tone is clear to you, it isn't clear to me. I don't know why. He's probably distinct to other people, but for me personally, I can't pick it out. I'm just bad at it. I'll think I know it's one guitarist and then I'll be totally wrong. I'm not saying he's not distinct; he just isn't distinct to me because I can't really tell guitarists apart in general. There are a few exceptions. Adrian is one of the only exceptions.

My point is not to put down Dave as it's more my problem than it is his; my point is to elevate Adrian because it takes a lot for me to be able to identify with a guitarist like that. As you saw from my list, there aren't many guitarists I can do that with, and some of them (Buckethead and Yngwie) you'd have to be brain dead to not be able to identify, really.
 
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