Hearing test

At what point can't you hear the sine wave?

  • 22 kHz

    Votes: 4 25.0%
  • 21 kHz

    Votes: 1 6.3%
  • 20 kHz

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 19 kHz

    Votes: 5 31.3%
  • 18 kHz

    Votes: 2 12.5%
  • 17 kHz

    Votes: 4 25.0%
  • 16 kHz

    Votes: 1 6.3%
  • 15 kHz

    Votes: 2 12.5%
  • 14 kHz

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 12 kHz

    Votes: 1 6.3%
  • 10 kHz

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 8 kHz

    Votes: 1 6.3%

  • Total voters
    16
The "air" high end, 13 khz plus, is the greatest concern with mp3. Iit's even rather poor at 320, so you can hear the difference between lossless and mp3 better than mckindog, assumed that there is enough + 15 khz content (this will be the most evident on modern, digital recordings as they have better ultra high end response. As I said, a lot of recordings tend to slope down quite a lot at around 16, mostly older recordings) judged by range alone. There is a discernable difference in cymbals and hihats and similar at mp3 320 (and of course lower) and Flac, where the latter accurately represents them.

I think we may have been talking semantics to an extent.
 
I wonder if people perceive the new Steve Harris record differently, because of their hearing.
On the record there's lots of bass and less room for higher sounds (frequencies). The less high sounds one can hear, the more "bassy" the sound gets (relatively more bass comes through, and less high tones).
 
Are you implying that I dislike the voice of the singer because I can't hear it properly? :p
 
Haha, that's another thought! No, I was speaking about the total sound, but indeed we can move the discussion towards this direction!. ;)
 
Well, this could be a nice scientific explanation - "No, sorry, my ears just don't get along with him."
But it does not answer the question why we all like Bruce's (high-pitched) voice if our ears differ so much.
 
mcindog has perfectly reasonable hearing - You don't need to hear 22 kHz to judge the quality of a recording as it's extremely little information there.
@ Foro :p

However, it is to be said, that there can be quite unpleasant overtones above 15 khz,
@ Foro :p:p

Clearly, your enjoyment of great music is being hampered by distracting overtones that not even geniuses like Martin Birch are aware of as they are laying down tracks. :smartarse:
 
I'm going away to study for an exam + record some synths, but I'll very quickly adress the voice thing (I'm actually doing it seriously :p) .

The highest note Bruce hits is what, B5 or something like that. The highest note on a piano hits 4000 hz at C8 or something something as its fundamental frequency. Whether you hear 16, 18 or 22 khz is irrelevant when it comes to vocals - The top end harmonics for vocals that are useful for music are around 10 khz, that's where the "air" is (plus a lot of "S"-sounds).



I'll let Foro and mckindog fight it out. :D
 
I'm going away to study for an exam + record some synths, but I'll very quickly adress the voice thing (I'm actually doing it seriously :p)

Cheers. Looking forward to you addressing my remark on the interpretation of the total sound of the Harris album. I think it's good to take real examples.

Now I'm seriously answering a serious note. ;)
On a more serious note, how badly does this affect my enjoyment of music?
And does I mean investing in a great sound system would be a waste of my time?
Yes, though being a Dutchman myself, I'd rather call it a waste of money myself. ;)
Investing in a great hi-fi system would not be necessary because you can't hear hi-fi. Naturally this is under the assumption that a great sound system gives more frequencies than the ones you can hear; I assume that is the case, but I have no example at the moment. I reckon that a cheap system would be sufficient. Still, a hi-fi stereo could contain some cool functions and after all: the rest of your family can fully profit if they can hear higher frequencies.

EDIT:
I just went through the Sennheiser site, and their cheapest headphones (30 dollars) I could find (HD201) has this frequency response (headphones) 21.....18,000 Hz.
 
Cheers.
Investing in a great hi-fi system would not be necessary because you can't hear hi-fi. Naturally this is under the assumption that a great sound system gives more frequencies than the ones you can hear; I assume that is the case, but I have no example at the moment. I reckon that a cheap system would be sufficient.
Given what Yax has said, I'm not so sure. There will be a small percentage of high frequency sounds I cannot hear, but wouldn't there be better reproduction of low and mid-range sounds that I can hear just fine? I certainly can hear differences in sound quality of recorded music based on source material, and different quality stereo systems.
 
Small percentage? Music has high frequencies and harmonics that go up to 20,000 Hz.
I feel that Yax was downplaying the importance of 15,000-20,000 Hz range a bit, but those are my own 2 cents.
but wouldn't there be better reproduction of low and mid-range sounds that I can hear just fine?
This is the crux, I guess.
 
The thing about British Lion is that it's mediocre recorded and swiftly mixed. Kevin Shirley probably quick mixed it as a favour to Steve. It just isn't very good - Not Shirley's fault, he was supplied with poor recordings that dont blend that well with eachother, so even though Shirley balanced the mix properly (although the bass has too much low mids for my taste, but that's Steve Harris' sound) it doesn't sound particularly good. It's okay, but that's it really.
Hearing 22 khz won't make it sound good, that's not where the problem lies. There are no bass guitar, electric guitar or vocal content or drum content (cymbals and hihats are another matter) there. I think the big problem is the guitar sound (and a bit too loud vocals.). Sounds like each part is single tracked (you usually double track guitars, Maiden have done so since Killers. Can't recall if the debute album had layered guitars or not) and are often in mono (leads tend to have a stereo image) . It makes it sound weak. Better guitar sound (and more guitar tracks and parts), a little less vocals would go a long way.


And no, I am most certainly not downplaying it, you are overestimating it. There are no fundamental frequencies in that range, or any first harmonics, second, third, fourth and so on of any kind. They are top harmonics, mostly for cymbals, and hihats, and some small high pitched flutes. Top. The important information is down below. The 15 khz + range is, I think, the least important range along with the 60 hz and below range, which is why music still sounds good and open to people that can't hear past 15 khz. As I have said, most older recordings have very little above 15 khz. The money is in the mids, they are the most important, because that's where the most information exists.

Now, onwards to the whole hifi-thing. Hifi-magazines tend to grossly overestimate the impact of gear. They neglect acoustic treatment (as hifi-magazines exist to sell gear), which is every bit as important. Why? Because in an untreated room, frequencies will interfere with eachother and cancel eachother out, add to eachother so that certain frequencies get highly accentuated, flutter echo, weird room reverb, bass buildup in corners etc etc, all providing a very distorted (as in, unrealistic) and uneven representation of the media. You can take 200 000 dollar equipment in a shitty room, place them incorrectly and it will sound like shit. I remember reading about a self proclaimed audiophile talking about his ultra expensive gear - Which he listened to in his untreated concrete basement...

A speaker set or headphones can list a very wide frequency range - But, headphone specification stating the headphones reach from 20 hz to 39 khz or whatever, really says very little. It tells you the highest and lowest frequency they replicate, nothing else. It does not tell you if there is a giant dip at 500 hz. It does not say how flat the response is In the case of Koss Porta pro, which I think are pretty good low budget travel phones (they cost like nothing), you have widely accentuated 100 hz area (6 dB or so), along with 8-10 khz (also 6 dB SPL = double) but then it slopes down. They are supposed to be 15-25. You will not actually hear neither 15 hz or the 25 khz, because the reproduction of those frequencies is extremely low in level - Besides, bass needs space to develop because of the very long wavelengths. The response is not flat and the representation not accurate. What you strive for is a flat response. The Adam A7X monitors are rather flat. They variate at +/- 2 dB which is rather good. The specifications on the Koss would rather read something like +/- 12 dB (http://cdn.head-fi.org/1/1f/1f5b5708_fr.png). See, 100 hz is increased by 12 dB.
 
We're talking useable harmonics here, mind you. Frequencies that are actually used in music. For example, what do you do with highly sibilant vocals? You DeEss (a compressor that compresses a specific frequency area) them, because you don't want ultra razor S sounds. But interesting read still. While there is energy, there aren't any frequencies at 30 khz you use (and the reason you EQ 30 khz etc out is because of what I discussed earlier, how those frequencies can come back as undertones and distortion upon playback) and to save space on the media you use. Also, bear in mind, that almost all subjects demonstrated very little uhf power.
 
Back
Top