Happy Thanksgiving, my American friends!

Ahhh...I see now

Protestants in Europe didn't really squabble amongst each other, except in Britain.

In fact, alot of scholars refuse to acknowledge the Anglican church as Protestant. One of my profs insits on calling them "Anglo-Catholics" (as opposed to "Roman-Catholics")
 
[!--QuoteBegin-LooseCannon+Nov 29 2004, 08:12 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(LooseCannon @ Nov 29 2004, 08:12 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]The history of mankind, Killer, is of intolerence and colonization.

The Aztec did it to the Maya, remember.
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No, the Aztec and Maya existed in quite different times. The maya are from the classic period and the Aztec from the postclassic, some centuries separate them in time.

The Aztec did rule the mayan territories but by that time, the mayan civilization had already disappeared (is that the correct spelling?). Nobody knows what really happened to the Maya.

only the white men, on the other hand, commited such an infamous destruction with their conquest. Other cultures just taxed the ones they 'conquered' and they let them continue their culture and religion. But the white destroyed everything...
 
[!--QuoteBegin-Killer+Dec 6 2004, 07:40 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Killer @ Dec 6 2004, 07:40 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]No, the Aztec and Maya existed in quite different times. The maya are from the classic period and the Aztec from the postclassic, some centuries separate them in time.

The Aztec did rule the mayan territories but by that time, the mayan civilization had already disappeared (is that the correct spelling?). Nobody knows what really happened to the Maya.

only the white men, on the other hand, commited such an infamous destruction with their conquest.  Other cultures just taxed the ones they 'conquered' and they let them continue their culture and religion. But the white destroyed everything...
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Your ignorance is both disappointing and insulting. As one of those white men of whom you accuse of "infamous destruction", I think I need to inform you of a few things:

1. The mass death of the Meso-American civs at the time of the first European contact was NOT intentional. The Europeans brought diseases over to the New World which the aboriginals had no natural immunities. They did not do this intentionally. It's one of those things that just happens when two diametrically opposite societies meet.

2. Other people besides the White Men have committed henious acts. Atilla the Hun, from Central Asia, murdered countless numbers of people
Genghis Kahn's army (from Mongolia!) destroyed the ENTIRE population of Persia. Every village burnt, every man woman and child killed.
During their great migrations in Africa, the Bantu tribes exterminated all in their paths.
The Maori (the New Zealand aboriginese) killed off the entire population of the Chatam Islands and burnt the vilalges to the ground.
The Indian subcontinent has seen mass killings of various tribes and peoples for thousands of years.
The Japanese all-but wiped out the Ainu people of Northern Japan.

I can cite about 20 more examples off my head. Have peoples of European descent comitted barbaric acts? Hell yes. We're no different from anyone else in the damn world. Get the point? Human beings are inherently violent, whether they're black, white, red, yellow, green, or blue.

Don't blame the white man for the problems of the world. It goes much deeper than skin colour.
 
ignorance? hold on duke, he was completely right about the Mayas and the Aztecs. And even though death by disease wasn't intentional it doesn't justify it, they still caused it. and by 'white' he meant European NOT 'Canadian' so you have no reason to include yourself in such a group, because guess what, I'm white too, am i European? no, American? No! Did i find offense to killer blaming the 'white man' for gathering Natives inside the great temple walls and proceed to anihilate them? No. So take your head out of your ass for once and give the guy a break. oh right [!--emo&:D--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/biggrin.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'biggrin.gif\' /][!--endemo--] hehe
 
Onhell, saying that the "white man" is responsible for bringing diseases to the New World is technically true. HOWEVER, the way in which it is written above implies that they intentionally did so. That is not the case.

Nobody is attempting to justify anything, I just don't like it when people blame certain racial groups for things.

And the term "European" in this context also means their descendants in the New World, one of which I am. Stand me next to a guy from Britain, you won't be able to tell the difference.

Next time you want to lay blame, say something like "Cortez/Pizarro gathered the Aztecs in their temple and killed them" not "the white man did this..."

Blame the person, not the race.
 
[!--QuoteBegin--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]Onhell, saying that the "white man" is responsible for bringing diseases to the New World is technically true. HOWEVER, the way in which it is written above implies that they intentionally did so. That is not the case.[/quote]
It is actually the case. Spanish conquistadors transmitted smallpox to south american indians without knowing that it will lead to millions deaths amongst the indians, but american colonists did transmit the smallpox with this knowledge. They gave north american indians blankets used by colonists infected by smallpox in order to kill the indians.

Now I agree that the color of the skin have nothing to do with violence, as you said Iron Duke, there are plenty of example all over the world history showing that.
Let's also not forget the difference between "color" and "race" : we may have different skin color, but we all belong to the same race.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-IronDuke+Dec 7 2004, 01:48 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(IronDuke @ Dec 7 2004, 01:48 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]
And the term "European" in this context also means their descendants in the New World, one of which I am. Stand me next to a guy from Britain, you won't be able to tell the difference.

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Actually the term "European" in historical context only refers to British/Spanish/Portugues/French/ Dutch of the "mother country" and not their decendants. if you like to think of yourself as a Canadian-British go ahead but you are commiting the same moronic mistakes Americans do when they call themselves "irish" for having O'Leary as a last name. It's fine to have a heritage but that's it... you are now part of a modern state. I am not Spanish-Mexican even though my Grandmother on my Dad's side is of Spanish parents born in Veracruz technically, if you like to think in medieval terms, Criole (sp?) Spaniard born in the "new world". There is nothing more ridiculous, anoying and insulting than Political Correctness and to meet a 21st century Black person who blames a 21st century white person for the suffering of his people. You my friend are entering that discussion with our friend killer here.
 
Onhell, I find the need to question how you know what Killer intended.

"The white man" seems to refer to every man of Caucausian descent. No matter where they live.

I think that the Duke has every right to take offence to such a blanket statement.

Now, to reinforce my statement about the Maya:

The Maya Classic Age ended long before the rise of the Aztec empire. But the Maya and their many sub-tribes still existed throughout the highlands of modern Mexico, as well as the Yucatán Peninsula. These are the tribes that Montezuma conquered. And, I should add, sacrificed en masse. For instance, the Aztecs executed 12,000 Oaxacans. Sure seems like genocide to me.

In fact, when Cortés arrived, the Aztecs were preparing an invasion of the Yucatán, where the greatest of remaining Maya cities existed (such as Uxmal, Chichén Itzá, and Mayapán.

To this day the Maya survive. Four million of them live within the Yucatán Peninsula.
 
Some 10 centuries ago, my ancestors were Vikings invading the area called today Normandy. Does that make me a "Scandinavian Frenchman"? [!--emo&:P--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'tongue.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
Thanks mav! [!--emo&:D--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/biggrin.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'biggrin.gif\' /][!--endemo--] As to how do I know what Killer was refering too, in all my history classes we have reffered to the Europeans as "the White man" "when the white man came" only recently has this childish categorization been dropped in favor of the correct term. But i know it is without offense. Trust me. is this an emoticon that would lie? [!--emo&:D--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/biggrin.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'biggrin.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
Ok every body. It seems I started a lot of discussion with my comment. Well, let me tell you Onhell was right, for "white men" I was referring to those already dead Spanish, french, english, dutch, etc guys who came to america to kill the real and original americans. I could not attack the "white men" as a race coz, as ugly as it is, I am poluted with their blood: I have a Basque lastname and an spanish last name (we have two last names over here), I have french, german and jew blood, as much as aztec and even japanese blood. My racial background is a mess as you can see...

I know other peoples have done barbaric shit in the history of mankind, but the one that offends me the most is the barbaric actions of the europeans in america, they killed my ancesters! and even worse, they where baptised catholic while they where hold with a sword to there throut. That makes me real mad. But hey, those guys are already dead, it's not like I am looking for revange or something.
 
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