God Bless America

I

IronDuke

Ancient Mariner
Well ladies and gents, it looks like President Bush has won.

They need to finish counting the votes in Ohio, but he's far enough ahead of kerry that it won't likely make a difference.

Bush got a clear majority of the popular vote this time, which at least has restored the legitamcy of his reign.

Comments? Anyone have newer information? Predictions for the next four years?
 
Sad... [!--emo&:huh:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/huh.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'huh.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
Demoralising, wicked, cruel world.

He should be shot (I never said that, I'm quoting [!--emo&;)--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/wink.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'wink.gif\' /][!--endemo--] )
 
Back in the Village and he’s back in the village and he’s back in the village…… Again!!!

I was surprised to find that Bush won the Popular vote.

Kerry is to officially concede today, 11/3/04, at 1pm Eastern.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-infliction+Nov 3 2004, 11:29 AM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(infliction @ Nov 3 2004, 11:29 AM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]I was surprised to find that Bush won the Popular vote.
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[/quote]I wouldn't be so. Considering the Americans believe that there are terrorists breathing down their backs, and Bush is the one whose main selling point this election is what he's done for the War on Terror, I'd say that it'd be surprising of Kerry did win.
 
4 more wars! [!--emo&-_---][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/sleep.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'sleep.gif\' /][!--endemo--]

Damn Ohio (and all of the fuckin' redneck states). Bush is probably going to even more terribly abuse his power now that he doesn't have to worry about re-election. I would've given anything to have seen the look on Bush's face after losing.

Though what also sickens me is that the ban on gay marriage passed in every state in which it was on the ballot by a large margin! To me this sounds like oppression. Government denying people something that's none of their business...gotta love it [!--emo&:rolleyes2:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/rolleyes[2].gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'rolleyes[2].gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
I'll quote Forest Gump: «Shit happens» and « [!--emo&:)--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/smile.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'smile.gif\' /][!--endemo--] »

[!--emo&:lol:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/lol[1].gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'lol[1].gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
[!--QuoteBegin-StrangerInAStrangeLand+Nov 3 2004, 04:41 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(StrangerInAStrangeLand @ Nov 3 2004, 04:41 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]Though what also sickens me is that the ban on gay marriage passed in every state in which it was on the ballot by a large margin! To me this sounds like oppression. Government denying people something that's none of their business...gotta love it [!--emo&:rolleyes2:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/rolleyes[2].gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'rolleyes[2].gif\' /][!--endemo--]
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The state governments did no such thing. They put the question to the people, and it was the people who made the decision. I don't like it either, but I don't know the exact contents of the measures that passed. For example, if marriage was banned but some form of civil union is still allowed, that's not so bad.

Here's why I think Kerry lost: the Republicans have been working for at least 20 years to demonize the word 'liberal'. No matter how sane and intelligent a liberal may be, the application of that label is now enough to make millions of conservatives stop thinking and start hating. Further, the major news organizations too often report Bush administration statements as fact without double-checking - and often, these statements are again designed to discourage people from looking any deeper into the issues. Because the vast majority of the electorate can't be bothered to think for themselves, all Bush had to do was keep pouring the Kool-Aid.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-SinisterMinisterX+Nov 3 2004, 07:54 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(SinisterMinisterX @ Nov 3 2004, 07:54 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]The state governments did no such thing. They put the question to the people, and it was the people who made the decision. I don't like it either, but I don't know the exact contents of the measures that passed. For example, if marriage was banned but some form of civil union is still allowed, that's not so bad.
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What I mean is that the government should hardly have a say in who marries who and that it's kind of pathetic that such a huge percentage of the people actually care when some gays want to marry. Either people are just too intolerant in America, they're too religious, or they still think marriage is too sacred of a bond. The irony in that is that so many marriages end in divorce. That doesn't sound so sacred to me. But I agree that a different form of civil union for gays would make this a lot less of a problem.
 
America is a much more conservative country than Canada or Europe. It's impossible for most Americans to understand how we can be content in our pseudo-socialist nations, and we cannot fathom how anyone with a shred of common sense would vote for a person like Bush.

Americans look like the rest of us, they sound like us, and they lead basically the same lives. They are so alike on the outside, yet so very very different on the inside. What Americans value and look for in a leader are not the same qualities for which we look. This doesn't make them stupid. (Most Americans I've met are quite articulate and intelligent, actually....they know who they are)

I heard a story on Radio Netherlands' English service a few weeks ago. It explored the question of whether Europe and America are drifting irreconcilably apart in terms of values, beliefs, and morals. They interviewed people from Holland, France, Germany, and Poland. All of them condemned Americans for being ignorant, pig-headed, etc. These people simply could not understand how someone could support a man like Bush. (I’m sure there’s an equal amount of ignorance on this side of the pond too.)

When one seriously studies the nature of “middle America” – its history, composition, and current situation – one can being to understand America. The people are the ultimate voice, not the government. If the people vote to ban gay marriage, that’s that. Regardless of whether it’s right or wrong, a government puts if to the people. The ultimate law of the US, the Constitution, begins “We, the people….”

I hope this is comprehensible….it likely isn’t, but that’s alright!
Just try to understand where America is coming from….don’t condemn them. (Condemn Bush all you like, though!)
 
On the gay marriage thing- i also oppose it, Marriage is a SACRED union sanctified by God, the minister, priest, rabbi and so on. ALL Christian denominations oppose homosexuality as do the other two world religions Judaism and Islam. Because it is a religious issue it should be opposed. However, SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. It should be up to the churches, not the state, to oppose it. However people have a right to be happy and if two homosexuals (men or women) want to be together I have nothing against civil unions and the state shouldn't have a problem with that either.
Now moving on to the four more years- I am fucking scared. I'm serious. We have homophobic, warmongering, enviormentally inconsiderate, freedom hating (as much as they claim otherwise) morons controling this country. Republicans have the presidency, Senate, house of representatives and soon the supreme court with the appointments that are comming up. I expect to see more Macarthyism witch-hunts and brain drain. The U.S is devolving instead of evolving and turning (quickly) into a tyranicle country. The line between church and state is blurring and confusing. And I feel more like i'm in a theocracy than democracy. People quickly simplified the election saying that if you cared about the economy you voted for Kerry if you cared about morality you voted for Bush. Since when is it the goverment's responsabilty to take care of my morality? people are willingly giving up their freedoms, starting with the freedom to be yourself.... it fucking scares me.
 
Hahahaha, check this!!! [!--emo&:D--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/biggrin.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'biggrin.gif\' /][!--endemo--]

[img src=\'http://img112.exs.cx/img112/1123/KerryRevenge.jpg\' border=\'0\' alt=\'user posted image\' /]
 
[!--QuoteBegin--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]On the gay marriage thing- i also oppose it, Marriage is a SACRED union sanctified by God, the minister, priest, rabbi and so on. ALL Christian denominations oppose homosexuality as do the other two world religions Judaism and Islam. [/quote]

No. That is incorrect. Many mainline Protestant denominations allow gay marriage. The United Church of Canada (the largest Protestant denomination in the country) allows it, as do many others.

When you strip it down to the bare essentials, Christianity is about faith and love - all other things are secondary. If you're a religious person (and there's absolutely nothing wrong with not being so), you know that love is something divine...it is God's will. If two people, ANY two people, feel that love for each other, who are we to say that they cannot celebrate their love in the eyes of the God who they believed willed their love to grow?

Of course, if Roman Catholics (or some other faith) believe that homosexual marriage is wrong, they should NEVER be forced by a government to do so. It is their faith, they can make whatever rules they want.
But is it not equally wrong for a government to disallow something that other faiths may believe in, so long as it doesn't harm the public welfare?

To quote one of my country's greatest statesmen, Pierre Trudeau:
'There's no place for the state in the bedrooms of the nation.'
 
Recap your old testament Duke, God, not man makes it clear (if you believe the bible is the word of God or take it as such) forbids homosexuality. But you are right, I should have said MOST instead of ALL. And I completely agree with Pierre Trudeau. That is why I said civil unions are fine, it's a state matter, marriage should not be left up to the state but up to the churches, Most, at least as far as Catholics, Anglicans, Episcopal, Presbyterian, Quakers, Mormons, Baptists, Anabaptists, Southern Baptists, Calvinists, Lutherans, Methodists,Non-denominational (which in itself is a denomination hahaha) christians,born-again christians etc,etc, prohibit it. But as you pointed out some allow it and that is perfectly fine.
 
There is indeed a passage in the Old Testament (I think it's Exodus or the following book) in which God tells Aaron with whom or what you may not have sex. It's quite an interesting read, as these perverts come up with stuff I wouldn't have imagined in my wildest dreams [!--emo&:D--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/biggrin.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'biggrin.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
I don't think any system that relies on the population is stable. You're always going to have idiots left right and centre (zentrum, if you're German).

And the idiots are all on the right in America.
 
That is most definately true about the Bible, but taking it word-for-word is NOT what I believe was intended by whoever wrote it. One musn't get too hung up over specific passages in the Bible, but rather look at it as a guidline on how to best live your life.

If ones does that, the basic message is this: Have faith and try to be a good person. Don't get too hung up over pesky details and obscure rules....it's what people did in the Middle Ages and it has really bad results.
 
The old testament is indeed a great read, incest, adultry, wars, hellfire, if they made a movie about it it would be rated NC-17 hahahaha. But there is a tiny flaw in your argument Duke. I completely agree SOME passages shouldn't be taken literally (The earth was created in 7 days for example) But i don't think the whole bible shouldn't be taken literally. It depends on the passage, there are poems like the psalms, there are those filled with symbolism like Daniel and the Apocalypse which you have to interpret because only if you are high you can take them literally. However Acts of the apostles does have historical (some but its there) information that can be taken at face value and I doubt the ten commandments, the dietery laws as well as the passage Perun mentioned were meant at a allegorical/metaphorical/symbolic level. I don't think there is anything more straightfoward as "Thou shalt not murder" or "thou shalt no sodomize thy neighbors husband!" i was paraphrasing of course [!--emo&:D--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/biggrin.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'biggrin.gif\' /][!--endemo--]. And unfortunately most people in this country believe the bible literaly and so do the people in power... and that is why, i repeat, i'm scared shitless.
 
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