Favourite Production

[Anonymous]

Although Martin Birch is a legend, and rightfully so, I feel that all the production quality of the Birch- and post Birch-era albums is somewhat uneven. Hardly anything will ever match the quality of Piece Of Mind or Seventh Son Of A Seventh Son, but on the other hand, I feel that Killers and Fear Of The Dark is severely lacking.
Kevin Shirley certainly is a very controversial topic, and I am the first to admit that Dance Of Death is rather weak production-wise, but I feel that Brave New World and A Matter Of Life And Death sound brilliant. In fact, Brave New World is second for me, after Piece Of Mind, because both albums manage to keep a very intense and tight atmosphere.

My least favourite production is, believe it or not, that of The X Factor. While it speaks volumes about the incredibly high quality of the material and the band's performance that it still is my favourite album of all times (next to Pink Floyd's Wish You Were Here, but X Factor wins), I dare not imagine what it would have been like had it been produced by Birch or Shirley... it probably would have blown my brain out at the first listen.

 

[____no5]

I think again Powerslave, though is difficult to decide ;

from tnotb to the 7th son every album has its own sound
something that is a f**king great achievement !!


not to forget no prayer's production, that was also something different
and right for its purpose (direct songs)

after the 82-88 era's production, I put AMOLAD, no prayer, BNW, Killers etc

worst : the two X (in deed ) albums, with more worst the virtual XI

 

[Forostar]

Nice poll !!

I’d like to state my opinion on some albums.

Killers: Very full and hard-hitting production. Clive’s drums come out strong and the guitars, especially the solos sound very clear. Check e.g. the solos in Prodigal Son. Great stuff. I think that this production is better in many ways than The Number of the Beast

Piece of Mind: What strikes me most is how full the rhythm guitars sound on this album. From all the 80’s albums they might sound the fullest/loudest. Killers comes pretty close though. However, because of these loud guitars the bass is sometimes a bit in the background (especially when the guitar chords are open). The production of the solos is perhaps better than on Killers, and more clear than the ones on NOTB and Powerslave

On Powerslave the bass can be heard very well, and all sounds by Harris are clear to the ears, and the guitars are more seperated to the side channels, compared with the full and fat guitars on the previous album. I might go a bit off-topic now, but on Powerslave we can hear a pretty different way of guitar playing than on Piece of Mind. Adrian plays often different things than Dave. E.g. in “Rime…” and in “The Duellists” Adrian plays open long chords where Dave plays fast rhythm guitar (powerchords). For someone who likes to hear more variation and details in the guitar work, Powerslave is definitely the better “product”!

Somewhere in Time might be my favorite production with Powerslave, at the moment, but A Matter of Life and Death could replace it. What I like about the SIT’s production is the drumsound which seems to blend so well with ‘Arry bass and the rest of the music. There’s a big chance that Nicko’s playing and his drumsound might influence my total appreciation for  Somewhere in Time. Again, like on Powerslave we can hear that Adrian does a lot of different things than Dave. There’s so much melody on this album and the production fits perfectly to that. All studio versions of these songs I like better than all the live versions I have ever heard.

What I like so much about Seventh Son of a Seventh Son is the songwriting, not per se the sound. As much as I love the sound of the keyboards – they contribute immensely to the atmosphere – I think that the drums and also the guitars sound a bit thin to my ears. A “soft” production, and therefore not the heaviest album.

No Prayer for the Dying: The most live sounding studio recording Maiden ever created. Everything sounds rougher than ever, of course because Bruce’s vocals do, but also the way Nicko sounds on this record. I quite like it !

The X-Factor: For me the 2nd best sounding album of the nineties. The drums are very well in the mix - best drum sound since SIT and the solos sound also very well !

Virtual XI: trashed by media for its production. It sounded like a demo. I agree that everything sounds pretty thin and compressed.

Brave New World: not the best mix for 3 guitars – drums come out pretty sharp.

Dance of Death: the guitars sound louder (and the drums more to the background) but still I am not a big fan of this album. I have to admit that this is mainly because of the weak songwriting.

A Matter of Life and Death. Well, what can I say ! It might be their best production ! A great listen with headphones! No weak points for me (at the moment). As said before, in the end it could be the best sounding Maiden album of the whole catalogue.

I am not sure what to vote yet. I’ll do that later !

 

[gor]

Nice topic for a poll!

I voted for Killers because I love that sharp and clear sound it feaures on guitars, while Clive's Drums are not overshadowed by the guitars, they too come out very powerful.

Other comments on some of the other productions:
Piece Of Mind - a bit muddy
No Prayer - A bit dry but very raw
Fear Of The Dark - Here the attempt to follow on the "Black Album" sound is evident
TXF - LOVE the drum sound
VXI - the next thinnest sound would be Maiden through polytonic ring tones
BNW - no 3 guitar separation
DOD - Oh dear...
AMOLAD - unexpectedly good. One of the BEST production Maiden ever had! The guitar sound has finally been updated after stagnating for 3 studio albums, the drums sound uncompressed and high fidelity, the bass is finally audiable again, a real gem of a production. I think next time Harris should keep his hands off the mixing desk for good, Shirley has shown he can produce Maiden.

 

[____no5]

Fear Of The Dark - Here the attempt to follow on the "Black Album" sound is evident

very interesting quote....can you tell me more about this sentence ? it really interestes me

 

[gor]

Well, it is only my opinion but I have reasons to back it up with:

-Maiden and Metal in general, was loosing fans fast back in 1991. And while everyone in the metal world was going downhill, Metallica come out with their eponymous 1991 album and reap platinum awards all over the world. Maiden noticed. Hell, everybody noticed. What were some of Metallica's ingedients for success? Maiden needed to stay on top and they were desperate for bright, contemporary ideas.

1. Drop all the complicated guitar works that crams the songs and makes them unmemorable. Make simple but catchy metal, suitable for Arena Live gigs. Maiden did that too. They consiously (according to Murray) dropped all the harmonies for the same reasons. It's no accident that one of Maiden's most succesful live anthems is from this album.

2. The drum sound. It's sooo evident that everybody, Maiden included, was inspired by the fuller, louder drums the Black Album.

3. The power ballad. You can argue that Maiden had made other ballads before Wasting Love, but I think Wasting Love remains to this day, the only one reffering so explicitly to the word LOVE. The even dropped Eddie from the artwork and made a videoclip that seems frightenly close to the video for "the unforgiven", if Maiden ever tried to sell out, this is it, forget Women In Uniform!

4....here comes Metallica in the rear view Mirror! Bruce jokes in the end of Space Staion No5. Now, it's only only a joke, and you can't take it seriously you say, but remember, each joke contains 5% of truth. Bruce didn't mention Manilla Road, he mentioned Metallica, cause they were racing against each other. Let's face it, there was no metal band that sold more than Maiden back in those days and they must have felt really challenged when Metallica raced past them. As challenged as Priest felt when Maiden took the reign out of their hands in the early 80's.

 

[Cosmiceddie]

'Killers' , without a shadow of doubt! On no other album sounded Steve's bass better than there. The same thing for the drums. I do like the sound of the guitar solos which has lots of delay. The only thing I'm not that pleased is that the vocals were recorded with a little too much reverb for my taste.

 

[Forostar]

2. The drum sound. It's sooo evident that everybody, Maiden included, was inspired by the fuller, louder drums the Black Album.

Fuller, louder? In my humble opinion FOTD has about the weakest drum sound of the whole discography. The snare drum was put less tight and as a result a lower, dryer sound was created. The next album this was switched back immediately.

I don't see what your last sentence of point 1 has to do with Metallica, in any way. It's almost like you imply that Metallica had the ultimate recipe to success and that Maiden followed this literally. How can this be the case since FOTD doesn't sound like Metallica at all.

The styles of the Black Album and FOTD are totally different and that's for me the main argument against the Metallica comparison. Still indeed interesting to read such opinions and my words are only my 2 cents ! 

 

[Albie]

I have to admit, I've never been that fickle about production, however, I really do like the "meaty" and raw live sound on A Matter of Life and Death.

Dance of Death baffles me why so many dislike this on a production value - it does not put me off the album one iota, whether I listen on my laptop/CD/headphones or whatever.

The two Nigel Green efforts to me sound OK - no problems here.

I heard somewhere that Martin Birch produced Deep Purple's Machine Head in such a way that it is best listened to by turning up the volume - I most certainly can appreciate the Birch produced Maiden stuff at a louder volume, so maybe he had that in mind with them. It is fairly evident that at some point in the late 80's/early 90's that music was recorded by turning up the volume in the recording studio rather than the end-user, which has eventually led us away from this.

I guess, if I had to pick - Matter of Life and Death.

 

[____no5]

@ gor : very interesting point of view, especially about harmonies and the Bruce quoting (I had never noticed it before !!)

during the 80s I was always dreaming a double Maiden Lp and I never had it, so I was a bit dissapointed when they finally did it but after Black Album

something similar is for me the classical arrangements in BNW, exactly after Metallica's S&M

in fact, the reason I was excited with AMOLAD tour it was that for first time after ages I felt that my beloved band is at last pioneer in something

@ Forostar : Sad but true

 

[Urizen]

I could really vote for 10 different albums, but I'll pick 'Somewhere in time'.

Somehow I don't see any Maiden album as having a seriously 'weaker' production. I think Maiden tried and did different(as they still do) things every now and then and I see this as an advantage. That's why I like the somewhat contrasting impressions I get while listening to albums from different eras that have it's own sounds.

Because of this brave experimenting we have around 5-8? different periods of their work offering plenty of variety for the listeners and a testament of the band's capability and creativeness that keeps a loyal fan base for decades.


P.S. Oh, I think I started gravitating towards my idealistic side again  .

 

[____no5]

P.S. Oh, I think I started gravitating towards my idealistic side again  .

romantic is more proper term here
idealistic is in fact a more philosophical /political term
the opposite to materealistic

 

[Forostar]

I could really vote for 10 different albums, but I'll pick 'Somewhere in time'.

Somehow I don't see any Maiden album as having a seriously 'weaker' production. I think Maiden tried and did different(as they still do) things every now and then and I see this as an advantage. That's why I like the somewhat contrasting impressions I get while listening to albums from different eras that have it's own sounds.

Because of this brave experimenting we have around 5-8? different periods of their work offering plenty of variety for the listeners and a testament of the band's capability and creativeness that keeps a loyal fan base for decades.


P.S. Oh, I think I started gravitating towards my idealistic side again  .

Well said, actually. What do you like about the sound/production of SIT ?

 

[Urizen]

romantic is more proper term here
idealistic is in fact a more philosophical /political term
the opposite to materealistic

Good point, but romantics of the late 18th early 19th century, weren't they known for their tendency to idealise things?

Well said, actually. What do you like about the sound/production of SIT ?

Well I don't know much about production really so I tend to mix up opinions of production of an album to liking the sound of an album. As you said it's the melody- wait, the melody is not affected by production right? I'm not sure, it's the general feel I get from listening to it. It has a clean sound and Bruce's voice sounds great(doesn't it always ).

 

[____no5]

Good point, but romantics of the late 18th early 19th century, weren't they known for their tendency to idealise things?

very well said Urizen !!!

Well I don't know much about production really so I tend to mix up opinions of production of an album to liking the sound of an album. As you said it's the melody- wait, the melody is not affected by production right? I'm not sure, it's the general feel I get from listening to it. It has a clean sound and Bruce's voice sounds great(doesn't it always ).

@ Forostar : I think Urizen is right, the topic is "favourite production" and not "write an essay /justify your fav production" ...he likes the sound /feeling that's all full stop

one of my best productions is the first album's one
which is -technically- one of the worst
so, what can I explain ?

 

[Urizen]

I think Forostar is just very enthusiastic about music(he said in one thread I recall that while the rest of us often dig in to the lyrics of Maiden's songs, he is more interested in the musical side).

 

[Raven]

Piece of Mind for me, with Brave New World a close second.  On PoM, the production is very distinctive; no other Maiden album has that same guitar sound, with it's crunchy, full, yet perfectly clear levelling.  The panning and levelling of the guitars is brilliant, as is the levelling of the bass and drums.  Basically, everything is in the right proportions, and it's distinctive to boot.  Contrastingly, Somewhere in Time and Seventh Son... suffer a little bit in production values; while SiT has the awesome ethereal feel on it, the instruments sound very cramped...with a slightly broader sound, it would probably be my favourite Maiden album.  On Seventh Son, the production just lacks a little innovation.  It sounds clear and the songwriting is amazing, but it just lacks a little 'punch', as has been said.

BNW is my second, due to the crispness of the sound.  Again, everything is in the right proportions, and while the sound isn't as distinctive as PoM, it's still a great contender.

 

[Genghis Khan]

... while SiT has the awesome ethereal feel on it, the instruments sound very cramped...with a slightly broader sound, it would probably be my favourite Maiden album. 

That's an interesting observation.  I've wondered how to describe SiT's sound and I think you did it well.  While I like the guitars I felt that they were all centred as opposed to having them heard with both ears, making them sound a bit too harsh.  I feel this is especially true in the first four songs, but less in 'The Loneliness...'.  Would you agree?

 

[Raven]

Sea of Madness suffers particularly from this, but Deja-Vu, Loneliness... etc. aren't as bad, as you say.  Mostly, it's when the guitars enter rhythm mode, as this means that there are thick power chords (well, power chords aren't very think musically, but talking about the texture with distortion, they are) crowded close together-in the harmonies, the guitars can separate a bit more, as the ear is able to distinguish between the two stereo sections.  It's still a great album, though...I don't question that for a second!

 

[Forostar]

I disagree with the centered audio. I think that on SIT a distinct difference can be heard between H (right channel) and Dave (left), also during rhythm tracks. That's cool !

Check e.g. the chorus of Caught Somewhere in Time, Sea of Madness (H's vibrato), and a lot of stuff in Alexander the Great. Headphones might help a lot. It almost looks like Adrian is waving right channel lead patterns through all his rhythm tracks.