Fat people

IronDuke

Ancient Mariner
What I post below is a transcript of my arguments regarding obesity during a conversation over MSN with a friend. (so I apologise for the odd grammar and weird "feel" of the rant) For those of you who aren't aware, the United States and, to a lesser but still concerning extent, Canada are undergoing an epidemic of fat people who are placing huge strains on many sectors of the economy and general life.
I don't know how things are in Europe for sure, but i can guess they don't really have this problem of over-consumption due to a more dense and dare I say cosmopolitan population which has never experienced the frontier "me" mentality which North America needs to grow out of.
% of population which is obese (OECD countries). The data dates range from 1996 to 2003, according to Wikipedia (not a reliable source, but it's a good rough guess)
Bmi30chart.png

If the entire thing doesn't show, hust follow this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Bmi30chart.png

Without further ado....

So here’s the thing about the obesity epidemic raging across the United States and, to a lesser extent, Canada. Like most things, ti’s a complex problem which cannot have any single solution.
First, those who think it’s a personal choice which affects only themselves may have a point. A person’s body is their own business, right? They can choose to mess it up in anyway they want. Well, yes, but only to a certain extent. Society in general suffers when people are unhealthy. Especially in Canada, where any medical problems which the person might encounter are paid for by the tax payers. When someone slowly kills themselves and goes to the hospital, I end up paying for their treatment. It is my business, and I say it must stop.

There are a few sources to the problem:
Children are learning not to exercise from a young age. Parents work too much and begin to feel guilty about not spending enough time with their kids. They therefore become over-protective when they are actually able to parent them, and forbid to simply let kids be kids. Instead of actually letting their kids play outside and develop healthy habits, parents are letting the TV and video games raise their children. Kids grow up thinking that parking their asses in from of the TV is the only way to spent free time; ergo they become fat tubs of lard.

Food is too inexpensive. No, scratch that. Bad food is too inexpensive. A bottle of pop costs less than bottled water (don’t get me started on bottled water….damn rip off). A bag of chips is more readily available than potatoes. Taxes need to be levied on junk food. It needs to become a luxury item that regular people can rarely afford. The money gained from such taxes could be used to subsidize healthy foods such as fruits and vegetables. Most good economists will tell you that the best way to manipulate buying habits is to create incentives for consumers. This will do just that. Yes, it may be tragic that the welfare queen with 4 pieces of crotch fruit won’t be able to afford a cake and three bottles of Pepsi each time goes shopping, but perhaps we could, instead of giving welfare and family allowance cheques, give food stamps. The stamps could only be exchanged for real food, and thus we could at least ensure that the kids would be getting healthy food. Is this humiliating for the welfare person? Yep. Too damn bad. The program is supposed to be a method by which unfortunate people can survive, not a steady income to do what you want with. Who knows, maybe it would create a little incentive for this kind of person to improve their lot in life and get off welfare. Of course, most would probably just sell the food stamps to smarter people and buy more junk.

Of course, it’s not all a problem of economics. Food on the market now is just plain crappy. Too much corn is being grown in North America (thanks a whole lot, US government, for subsidizing this crap and not letting regular supply/demand dictate what crops are grown) and the huge surplus needs to go somewhere. Overproduction is the worst thing ever for agriculture, because it leads to even more over production. When there’s too much corn, prices fall. When prices fall, farmers have to plant even more to make the same income. So there’s even more….you get the idea. All this excess corn has to go somewhere. Is it used to feed the millions of hungry people in Africa? Hell no. It’s all turned into high-fructose corn syrup and put in damn near every processed food item you can buy. This kind of fructose isn’t digested the same way as cane sugar; the body gets almost no energy from it and turns it immediately into fat. It’s bad stuff, and it’s in everything (this is more of a US problem than in Canada, thanks to our farmers’ concentration on wheat and canola)

Finally, people don’t know how to cook. Schools have stopped teaching basic survival skills to kids, and they’re helpless. Many people simply don’t know how to cook and therefore HAVE to eat in restaurants all the time. Both boys and girls should be taught how to prepare simple, healthy meals from a young age. I heard recently that the local food bank would rather someone donate a bag of French fries than a 50lb bag of potatoes because people can read the directions on the fries and cook them. How can someone not know how to cook a damned potato? There’s almost no way you can screw it up!

Finally, people don’t walk anymore. If people actually walked places, they’d be getting easy exercise. But they don’t. They drive cars. Why? Gasoline is still, at $1.25/L, too cheap. People need a bit more incentive to NOT drive. They could even take public transit and walk to and from the bus stops! But that’s a whole other rant for another time.

(again, my mild dyslexia sometimes leads to typos in IM conversations....sorry)
 
Obesity is a huge problem in many countries but when we compare it to the starvation of people, it really makes me feel sick.

Not only are fat people placing a strain on their own health, they are also driving up the cost of healthcare for the rest of us.  On the other hand, it is unfair to discriminate against people because of their physical appearance.  Over-eating may be a mental problem... food may be used to fill a gap in a person's life if they are feeling unfullfilled or empty.  Some people are just too lazy to change their lifestyle (diet and exercise) and are placing the blame on other people.

It is a sad state of affairs when rich countries such as the USA, the UK and Canada have such high percentages of obese people when people in other countries are starving but the world-economics crisis is not something that will be easily changed in the forseeable future.  The problem is that people are too rich and too comfortable... they own cars, they never have to worry about money problems, never mind where the next meal is coming from.

"Fat" people placing a strain on many aspects of life is a problem that will not be easily solved, especially not over the internet ;)
 
Interesting subject Duke. I've recently read many books and newspaper's articles about this problem.
First, as for the datas, the percentage of obese people in France is 12% in 2006 ( and 15% for the children under 16).

Why is there such a problem of obesity ? I believe that the answer is actually quite simple as the main reason is because food industries want to make more profit year after year.

One way is to make people eat while they don't need to. Normally 3 or 4 meals / 24 hours is enough for everybody. Nobody needs to eat a cereal bar at the 10am break, neither crips at 6pm when back from work, neither pop corn in front the evening movie. But advertisements ( which goal is to create a need that doesn't already exist) for fat and sugary food is everywhere and people got used to eat at any time. It's just a normal thing nowadays.

The other way to make profit is to change the ingredients of processed food like putting glucose-fructose syrup instead of saccharose or palm oil instead of sunflower oil or olive oil because it's cheaper to produce (but bad for the health). Then have you ever look at the ingredients in a cooked tomato sauce ? Eveytime there's sugar in it. Why do they need to put some sugar in it whereas a tomato sauce is supposed to be salty ? Would you add sugar if you were cooking it at home ?

But then I think you can't say that bad food is cheap and good food is expensive . It's a bit more subtle because bad food can be expensive too. I've started three months ago to look at the list of ingredients each time I bought processed food and to avoid everything that contains palm oil or glucose-fructose syrup. And I had the bad surprise to discover that many times hard discount items and more expensive items had the same ingredients including those I have mentionned before. For example, chocolate cookies by LU ( Danone group) and chocolate cookies by LIDL (hard discount) had exactly the same ingredients. Maybe the rates where a bit different but what was really different was the price (3 times cheaper for LIDL).

After three months I gave up the hunt for glucose-fructose syrup and palm oil because they are actually almost in every processed food item and I have started to cook only fresh food because it's the only way to eat healthy. And you know what it doesn't cost me more because there are many items that I used to buy  at the supermarket and that I don't buy anymore because I don't need them (and I never did after all).
 
syl said:
Why is there such a problem of obesity ? I believe that the answer is actually quite simple as the main reason is because food industries wants to make more profit year after year.
I wouldn't place the blame at the feet at the big companies... I think everybody has to make a conscious decision as to what they eat.  Advertisements do affect us to some degree but when we stand in the shops and see the choices we can make, the big companies don't have the say then... it is up to the individual.
 
You  can blame the companies, but also our diet is much different. Sugar mainly was hard to come by even 100 years ago, now A LOT of foods (specially cheap junk food as pointed out by duke) are saturated with it... people don't need that much sugar.... So the overdosing of sugar promoted by big corporations... plus all the growth hormone crap added to many products, not just meat (in the U.S at any rate) may also be behind it.
 
As a stated in another thread, if you eat three square meals daily and at regular intervals (don't ever skip breakfast - a big "Neddy no no") and if this food is cooked from fresh ingredients, the need to snack is almost non-existence. And also try to eat sitting down and do nothing more than eat the food.

I work for a large retail company that (amongst other products) sells sweets. Lots of these sweets are banded about in the HO (supplied by the manufacturer) and given to the employees. I love chocolate, but I am never tempted by these when waved under my nose - I just don't fancy them, because I practice the above.

As for water, well on the whole tap water is fine for most of us - just drink loads of it. Even supermarkets sell own branded table water for next to nothing (something like less than 20pence for a 2 litre bottle). Stock up with that.

Oh, and if you need an excuse to walk - get a dog. ;)

I am not so sure about the general consensus in this country, but I have noticed some parents seem to want to not give their children fizzy drinks and stuff (mainly, as I was told, to avoid bad teeth which this country apparently has a bad problem with). And coupled with Jamie Oliver doing his one-man campaign to convert school diners into a more healthy option, maybe the tide will turn!
 
Onhell said:
You  can blame the companies, but also our diet is much different. Sugar mainly was hard to come by even 100 years ago

Yes you're right, oils and butter were also expensive and people didn't eat so much meat  (except those who could afford it). Meals were based on cereals and vegetables, just like nutritionnists advise people to do nowadays.
 
I am not so sure about the general consensus in this country, but I have noticed some parents seem to want to not give their children fizzy drinks and stuff (mainly, as I was told, to avoid bad teeth which this country apparently has a bad problem with).

Ohhh...the jokes which could be told about that.


On a more serious note, for any Americans reading this: Did you know that when Coca-Cola did its infamous screw-up with "New Coke" it was all a conspiracy? They withdrew "Old Coke" (made with cane sugar) from the market, brought in "New Coke" for a year or so, but made it intentionally bad so it wouldn't sell. When they brought back Old Coke (called Coca-Cola Classic today) they made it with high fructose corn syrup instead of cane sugar. The whole thing was really a way to change their source of sugar without anyone noticing, because they had "New Coke" in the interim period to throw their taste buds awry.

I don't drink pop (soda, soft drinks, etc) at all anymore. For those who do in the USA, however, I'd suggest trying to buy the Coke made in Mexico or the Dr. Pepper made in Dublin, Texas (it's specially labelled) They use real cane sugar and not HFCS.
 
Duke... are you insane? Seriously... where do you this crap? Coke came out with "New Coke" because Pepsi was gaining on them and I believe they actually surpassed them in sales, thus the change to "new coke", which oddly tasted a lot like Pepsi. People were pissed. It was a royal corporate screw up which they were able to turn to their advantage. Coke in the U.S has been made with syrup for much longer than the 80's. Yet in other countries they still use sugar, because of diferent laws regarding food production. 
 
Believe what you want...I'm just saying what I've been told. Knowing the history of multi-national companies such as Coca Cola, is something like this really too far-fetched?
 
syl said:
Then have you ever look at the ingredients in a cooked tomato sauce ? Eveytime there's sugar in it. Why do they need to put some sugar in it whereas a tomato sauce is supposed to be salty ? Would you add sugar if you were cooking it at home ?

I asked my wife this very question (she is a good cook, I must add); her response was that you need to put a little sugar in any tomato based sauce/soup/dish (not a lot, but enough to warrant its inclusion on an ingredient label) to counteract the acidity in the tomato itself. She did also say that when making tomato sauce she may put something like a sweet fruit in instead of sugar.
 
IronDuke said:
Believe what you want...I'm just saying what I've been told. Knowing the history of multi-national companies such as Coca Cola, is something like this really too far-fetched?

Um actually... YES it is pretty far-fetched
 
It's EXTREMELY far-fetched, Duke. Let's say you're the president of Coca-Cola, and you decide you want to change the recipe to save money on ingredients. (That is why they made the change, after all.) Why in the world would you choose a method that intentionally makes people HATE your product for a year? Just change the damn formula already, and risk a dip in sales which is likely to be milder by far than what New Coke caused.

Oldsters on this forum can back me up on this. Duke, I don't know your exact age, but I doubt you were old enough to personally remember New Coke. You've only heard about it secondhand. When I say people HATED it, I really mean it. It is without question the single biggest business blunder ever made in the food/beverage industry. It was simply FUCKING GODAWFUL. In fact, it was so bad it turned me off of Coke for good. I along, with millions of others switched to Pepsi and haven't looked back.

No one makes that kind of mistake as part of a grander plan.
 
And I'm one of the big fat Americans helping the problem! God Bless Ronald McDonald!
 
Albie said:
I asked my wife this very question (she is a good cook, I must add); her response was that you need to put a little sugar in any tomato based sauce/soup/dish (not a lot, but enough to warrant its inclusion on an ingredient label) to counteract the acidity in the tomato itself. She did also say that when making tomato sauce she may put something like a sweet fruit in instead of sugar.
I never add sugar in a tomato sauce... Cook it a long time and you won't have any acidity left.  ;)
***
Very interesting topic. I'm not fat nor my girlfriend nor our child. We eat simple things, fresh stuff, many vegetables, lots of fish and we never eat any sort of processed food.. It's the way we live but it's not a strategy strictly speaking.
The key of this problem is education, as usual. It starts at school and we try to explain to our children what they can eat in large amount (vegetables, fruits and generally raw food), what they can have on a regular basis but in a limited quantity (sweets, cakes, smoked fish etc...) and what is forbiden since they have not completed elementary school (mostly alcoholic beverages ^_^). Quite simple if you have the relevant information about food. I'd add that unlike Syl, I never hunt for any type of component in processed food because I've never had any doubt about the results...
 
Albie said:
I asked my wife this very question (she is a good cook, I must add); her response was that you need to put a little sugar in any tomato based sauce/soup/dishto counteract the acidity in the tomato itself.
The horror of my childhood - my mother putting sugar into every tomato based dish! :(
 
Erm, I did say a small amount of sugar - barely a couple of pinches. This is only to counteract the acidity, but if you cook it for a long time and it produces the same, then OK - I'll give that a try. I do trust my wife's cooking as neither she nor I are fat and we both have a healthy diet - and if she puts the sugar in, I won't argue.

JackKnife said:
The key of this problem is education, as usual.
Can't argue with that, but when you have someone like Jamie Oliver going into schools to try to change the way the kids eat - but the parents are handing them burgers during the play break becuese their little boy "cannot eat that rubbish".... :rolleyes:
 
Albie said:
Can't argue with that, but when you have someone like Jamie Oliver going into schools to try to change the way the kids eat - but the parents are handing them burgers during the play break becuese their little boy "cannot eat that rubbish".... :rolleyes:
Never heard about this guy (Jamie Oliver), would you recommend a book he wrote or something?
 
He did a couple called "The Naked Chef" and "The Return of the Naked Chef" which were well received at the time - along with a whole host more - each to coincide with a TV show.  Amazon have some user reviews about his books.
 
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