Fascism in 'Middle England'

K

Kopfanatic

Trooper
The downward spiral continues.The British National Party(a wolf in sheeps clothing) won a council seat in Sevenoaks,Kent.It's worrying enough them winning seats it in the inner cities, but we're talking conservative England here, with a capital C.

Now my politics do veer to the right, but these guys are scary.Nick Griffin the leader, was jailed a few years ago for inciting racial hatred, by suggesting that the holocaust was a hoax invented by the jews to make money.

I think it is inevitable that fascism of this kind will slowly grow in this country, because all debate is being stifled.We don't seem to have an immigration policy any more, but criticise it, and you are branded a racist With some of my previous posts, many of you may be under the impression that I don't like my country.Not so, but I have become very dissolusioned with it.British culture, laws and identity are being eroded, but there doesn't seem to be anyone with the will to stop it.Our Government aren't interested, and the Opposition don't fill me with a lot of hope. I've no interest in supporting the BNP, but who else can I turn to.

If things carry on the way they are, who would bet against Sharia Law  being practiced in England(legally )within the next 20years.
 
Kopfanatic said:
The downward spiral continues.The British National Party(a wolf in sheeps clothing) won a council seat in Sevenoaks,Kent.It's worrying enough them winning seats it in the inner cities, but we're talking conservative England here, with a capital C.

Now my politics do veer to the right, but these guys are scary.Nick Griffin the leader, was jailed a few years ago for inciting racial hatred, by suggesting that the holocaust was a hoax invented by the jews to make money.

I think it is inevitable that fascism of this kind will slowly grow in this country, because all debate is being stifled.We don't seem to have an immigration policy any more, but criticise it, and you are branded a racist With some of my previous posts, many of you may be under the impression that I don't like my country.Not so, but I have become very dissolusioned with it.British culture, laws and identity are being eroded, but there doesn't seem to be anyone with the will to stop it.Our Government aren't interested, and the Opposition don't fill me with a lot of hope. I've no interest in supporting the BNP, but who else can I turn to.

If things carry on the way they are, who would bet against Sharia Law  being practiced in England(legally )within the next 20years.
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You know, that reminds me of the situation in Sweden. SD is growing stronger (rascists in suits) and will get into the parliment next election mostly due to many being tired of Sweden's unorganized immigration policy (hell, we even have blocks that you could almost describe as a "ghetto" which is inhabited mostly by immigrants and they live in apartments with really low standards) and the urge to blame the present job situation at something - preferably imigrants. Yucks, I don't like how things are turning out. Neither in Sweden or Britain. Rascism is the ugliest face of the planet.

Is rascism getting more support elsewhere too?
 
The problem is that if there is a need for immigration reform, and there just might be, that none of the mainstream parties are willing to tackle it and look like jackoffs, so it's left to fringe elements.  If you, Kop, feel that strongly...consider getting involved beyond your vote.  Lobby your local organizations - there's a difference between racism and immigration reform, and people need to know that.
 
I agree in principle L.C, but the line between racism and immigration reform is becoming increasingly blurred by our left -wing 'elite'
which ,as i've mentioned, deem any anti immigration comment as racist. Write a letter to your local newspaper complaining about the state of immigration, gypsies camping near your home etc, and you could be in a world of shit if anyone traces where the letter has come from.
 
Immigration is a sensitive topic and I have never had an objective debate on it. Here in the southwest illegal immigrants are blamed for everything or viewed as folk heros. My mom almost slapped me when I said illegal immigrants should be deported when (not if) caught. She went on this tirade of coming to better themselves and looking for opportunities. and I said, yes... illegally. it is ILLEGAL immigration, against the law, thus if a law is broken, punishment follows. I point out that her and I came over for those very reasons and did it legally, it was very difficult and gruling, but we did it. I am not going to feel sorry for Pancho who got caught in the Sonoran desert and sent back.

Don't like the current law? As stated before, reform it, write your local congressman until he has nightmares about your letters.
 
I'm with Onhell on this one. Immigrants are fine and dandy.

When they break the laws before they even step foot on the soil, though....that's what gives them a bad name. Added to the general lawlessness of it all, there are other problems:
When someone comes to a country illegally, they cannot complain about bad treatment at work, lest they be caught and deported.
This means they have to accept less than "normal" pay and unsafe working conditions.
In turn, this drives down wages for those who have chosen to play by the rules.
The result is lower working wages across the board.

This is bound to create HUGE amounts of hostility on the part of "native" workers, who are seeing their jobs taken away by an illegal immigrant willing to work for much less per hour. That's the kind of fear & resentment that quasi-racist political groups LOVE. It means that their messages of hate will start to resonate with more and more people until they take on a critical mass and all of a sudden have an air of legitimacy to them.

You want to solve the problem of anti-immigrant hate groups? End illegal immigration by making LEGAL immigration easier and then enforce labour standards and FAIR wages for all residents (citizens & immigrants alike).

(And I'd listen to Onhell on this subject....he's something of an expert, methinks!)
 
LooseCannon said:
The problem is that if there is a need for immigration reform, and there just might be, that none of the mainstream parties are willing to tackle it and look like jackoffs,
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The opposition (Conservatives) under William Hague did put forward an immigration reform, but seemingly everyone deemed it to be just too controversial - and it did not help Hague in the slightest. Part of this reform was to cut out so much red tape and make it easier for immigrants - and as Duke said, it would have cut out illegal immigration. I don't remember too much else about it but it must have had other bits to this reform that tuned people of it - and him. Hague used this as part of his election campaign several years ago - and lost out to Blair.
 
With the current economic climate, people are increasingly looking for scapegoats. And who do they blame but the Migrants?
I hate the BNP and other similar parties with a passion, they go against everything i stand for.
However, this is exactly what happened in 1929 Germany.
In 1928 a secret report was commissioned in Germany stating that the Nazi's were a "minority party that poses no threat to the nation, and will not gain power". However, 4 years later, jsut look what happened.

In 2008, the BBC commissioned a report on the BNP saying....suprise suprise. "The BNP is a minority party that has no noticable influence over the population and will continue in this fashion".
Things change. I'm prepared to do all i can to prevent the (unlikley, admittedly) event that a party like the BNP will gain power however.
 
I've been noticing a similar kind of trend with a party here in Finland as well, but I'm not sure that's the economy so much as they've been on the rise for several years already (had seats in parliament since 1999).  They're not "fascist" in the traditional sense, but some of them are damn well racist, extremely nationalist, and anti-EU, and they are a very populist party as well. 

But I have noticed some rise in racism recently.  It's rather worrying.
 
The rise of the BNP worries me as well, thats why I started this thread.The problem is that our main(UK)political parties are so far removed from the general public, that more and more people are looking for alternatives.This is where my argument about immigration comes in.I'm all for controlled immigration.If you want to come here, contribute to society, pay your taxes, and keep your nose clean, then welcome.However our government don't have a clue who is coming in.There doesn't seem to be an immigration policy at all.

If you were white, working class, and on a council house list for the last 3 years, and suddenly a family from Somalia appears and moves straight into a council house, you would,I assume, be pretty pissed off.Someone from the BNP whispers the right things in your ear, and you suddenly start to take notice.

Also the Police have arrested 12 alleged Pakistani terrorists, some on student visas.These people have come into this country with the wrong paperwork, and our Customs, have sent them away (into the country) and asked them to come back with the right paperwork.This was 12 months ago.They should have been sent straight back to Pakistan
 
Yax said:
You know, that reminds me of the situation in Sweden. SD is growing stronger (rascists in suits) and will get into the parliment next election mostly due to many being tired of Sweden's unorganized immigration policy (hell, we even have blocks that you could almost describe as a "ghetto" which is inhabited mostly by immigrants and they live in apartments with really low standards) and the urge to blame the present job situation at something - preferably imigrants. Yucks, I don't like how things are turning out. Neither in Sweden or Britain. Rascism is the ugliest face of the planet.

Is rascism getting more support elsewhere too?
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I remember hearing about the SD and how worried all the other Swedish parties were over the summer. This also reminds me of the current situation in Austria were the FPO (Nazis in blue) has progressively gotten stronger to the point that they got a third of the vote in the last election. The problem is that there are two right-wing parties in Austria and if they ever consider getting together for a coalition government then Austria is going down the tubes.
 
There was a Conservative politician in Britain who gave a speech in Birmingham in 1968 called the 'Rivers of Blood' speech. He was slaughtered for it.It was broadly about the future of Britain 20 years from then. Many people now believe it to be visionary.You can make your own judgment if you wish by googling-Enoch Powell, Rivers of Blood. Bear in mind, this was also before Britain joined the European Union(It was sold to us under the moniker 'Common Market-it didn't sound so sinister under that name).

The craziness continues.

There has been a doubling of the amount of Polish immigrants claiming benefits during the past 2 years (around 14000) Oh well, I'll just have to work harder to pay for them.

Also A Romanian immigrant, who incidentally, has never worked since he's been here, has been charged with rape.He did it apparently because he was jealous of his Brothers cushy lifestyle in prison and wanted the same.(His Brother was convicted of the same offence.)

What I'm saying is, that it is inevitable that people will start looking for political alternatives, when the normal ones have failed.

This country has been part of a Social Experiment under New Labour which is in danger of breaking down, which brings me back to Enoch Powell and his speech 40 years ago.
 
Kopfanatic said:
There has been a doubling of the amount of Polish immigrants claiming benefits during the past 2 years (around 14000) Oh well, I'll just have to work harder to pay for them.
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Watch your mouth, I am married to one of them (in the Netherlands). :)

The Polish people (and others who used to be behind the Iron Curtain) came to the west, simply because they make way more money (3 or 4 times as much) than in their own country. Lately, I heard that the wages in Poland are rising (at least in some sectors), so that's positive, and well deserved.

These people are known to work hard and they stimulate your and my (our) economy.
Right winged people / populists / own-folk-first-nationalists seem to forget that constantly.
 
Whoa there! I've nothing against Polish people, or any other nationality. What I don't understand is, why are we letting people into an already overcrowded country straight onto an already bloated welfare state. We already have an indiginous population who are happy enough to do that as it is.

I have already stated that I have no issues with someone wanting to live in this country who will make a contribution to society and I agree that many do work extremely hard, so there is no need to take it personally!
 
No offense taken!  :)

Main thing is that I tried to oppose generalization by showing the positive elements of immigration.

England overcrowded? Come to the Netherlands. ;)
 
Foro. I understand where your coming from.I'm not trying to generalise, but put arguments for why facism seems to be on the rise certainly in the UK,if not the rest of Europe. There should be benefits of free movement of employment. I personally would like to live in New Zealand, but I would expect to pay my way, and integrate myself into the society.

What really annoys me, as I've stated, is the lack of any policy at all.there are many more examples. It was reported a while ago that immigrants from Eastern Europe who had settled here, were claiming child benefit for their children who were still living abroad WHY!

I'll give you 2 more examples of why I found the Enoch Powell speech interesting:-

I have 2 brothers, one travels the country extensively as part of his job.He can go into towns where he doesn't feel comfortable because of the colour of his skin, and he's white.

The second brother works in a  Hospital.He is sick of seeing whole families of 'NHS tourists' flying in from whichever country, marching straight to reception straight from the airport,  and demanding treatment for their mother who has kidney stones or whatever.The hospital daren't turn them away.They even employ translators.Sod the people who are already waiting. Idiots like me are footing the bill.

We also have schools where no-one speaks English at all.

At Christmas many councils have banned the word Christmas and call it Winterval or something like it, in case it upsets the Muslim or other ethnic communities WHY! This is predominantly a Christian country.

This country seems to be losing its identity, which ,to me, is the main reason why the BNP is gaining more support.
 
Kopfanatic said:
Foro. I understand where your coming from.I'm not trying to generalise, but put arguments for why facism seems to be on the rise certainly in the UK,if not the rest of Europe.
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So you claim to understand why facism seems to be on the rise these days.

In the 30s and 40s, if would you have lived in Germany would you have put the same arguments for why facism was on the rise?

In all honesty, with all this reasoning you do, what's the difference with that era?

Don't forget, just like in this era, back then, there were people who did not agree with those arguments. Because they didn't find those arguments for facism on the rise legitimate arguments.

Jealous people wanted scapegoats. The mob was led by polarizing madmen. The same is going on these days.

People have to follow the rules and if people (immigrants or not - it doesn't matter really) have the right to e.g. get a treatment, why bother about it? I know Dutch people who can't wait in the line, so if a foreigner would do this, so what? I'd be annoyed because of the behavior, but I wouldn't be angry about the persons identity.

I can imagine that governments should deal with it in a proper way but to speak in such anguish about foreigners only reminds me of a dark past, but not dark enough to forget it.

Maybe we should talk about the consequences of facism. Would we still then justify the arguments of its rise?

I assure you, I would have made the same post if I were not married with a foreign woman.
It's just my upbringing and schooling.
 
Firstly I don't claim to understand why Fascism seems to be on the rise, its an opinion,something called debate.
As for the comparison with 30's & 40's Germany, its a long time since I studied it at school. I would think that the principle is the same as today, that is , the German people were let down sufficiently by successive Governments, Hitler came along, spoke the right words, and was more ruthless than the rest, so pulled off his coup!

Am I jealous- no, what of?

Do people have the right to free treatment-Yes if they pay taxes to the society they are receiving the treatment from.No if they expect someone else to pay for it, and expect those who are paying for it to move further down the waiting list.

As for speaking in anguish about foreigners, not true.I;m more annoyed with a ridiculous open door policy, married with political correctness which is also out of control.

As for bringing back the dark days, what do you think I'm going to do, campaign for kristalnacht, don't be ridiculous. However I can't speak for the headbangers of society who are definately out there, dressed in suits and ties while it suits them.

Also I would not suggest for one minute that a lax immigration policy is the sole reason for a rise in fascism, but I would state that , if unchecked, is a significant part.

And , just to state for the last time, I am NOT against immigration, NOT racist, I work and socialise with all races and get along just fine.
 
Alright, let's say you want to have it better organized. Fair enough.

I agree with you that immigrants should not live segregated, in their "own" neighbourhoods and go to their own schools. Just as I condemn pure Christian education. In those schools, children learn one side of the story and find everything else strange or wrong, especially when they have a fanatic upbringing as well. They become less tolerant towards "fellow"-citizens.
 
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