Evolution vs. Intelligent Design

IronDuke

Ancient Mariner
As some of you know, a school district in Kansas has recently begun teaching the 'theory' of Intelligent Design in school science classes alongside Evolution.

the Ingelligent Design 'theory' is best defined as follows [a href=\'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_design\' target=\'_blank\'](main article from the Wikipedia)[/a]
[!--QuoteBegin--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]Intelligent Design (or ID) is the assertion promoted by a movement denominated by the same name, that certain features of the universe and of living things exhibit the characteristics of a product resulting from an intelligent cause or agent. The majority of ID advocates state that their focus is on detecting evidence of design in nature, without regard to who or what the designer might be.[/quote]

In other words, it advocates the God/Allah/Jim-Bob created the universe and designed the things in it in the way they are today. Now, I consider myself quite religious, and a devout, believing Christian. But this just ain't right. Despite the toned-down rhetoric of the above definition, Kansas scools will now, essentially, be teaching religion in science classes.

This has caused many civil libertarians in the States to get rather pissed off. In response, one genius has written the following letter to the Kansas school board:
I am writing you with much concern after having read of your hearing to decide whether the alternative theory of Intelligent Design should be taught along with the theory of Evolution. I think we can all agree that it is important for students to hear multiple viewpoints so they can choose for themselves the theory that makes the most sense to them. I am concerned, however, that students will only hear one theory of Intelligent Design.

Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. It was He who created all that we see and all that we feel. We feel strongly that the overwhelming scientific evidence pointing towards evolutionary processes is nothing but a coincidence, put in place by Him.

It is for this reason that I’m writing you today, to formally request that this alternative theory be taught in your schools, along with the other two theories. In fact, I will go so far as to say, if you do not agree to do this, we will be forced to proceed with legal action. I’m sure you see where we are coming from. If the Intelligent Design theory is not based on faith, but instead another scientific theory, as is claimed, then you must also allow our theory to be taught, as it is also based on science, not on faith.

Some find that hard to believe, so it may be helpful to tell you a little more about our beliefs. We have evidence that a Flying Spaghetti Monster created the universe. None of us, of course, were around to see it, but we have written accounts of it. We have several lengthy volumes explaining all details of His power. Also, you may be surprised to hear that there are over 10 million of us, and growing. We tend to be very secretive, as many people claim our beliefs are not substantiated by observable evidence. What these people don’t understand is that He built the world to make us think the earth is older than it really is. For example, a scientist may perform a carbon-dating process on an artifact. He finds that approximately 75% of the Carbon-14 has decayed by electron emission to Nitrogen-14, and infers that this artifact is approximately 10,000 years old, as the half-life of Carbon-14 appears to be 5,730 years. But what our scientist does not realize is that every time he makes a measurement, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is there changing the results with His Noodly Appendage. We have numerous texts that describe in detail how this can be possible and the reasons why He does this. He is of course invisible and can pass through normal matter with ease.

I’m sure you now realize how important it is that your students are taught this alternate theory. It is absolutely imperative that they realize that observable evidence is at the discretion of a Flying Spaghetti Monster. Furthermore, it is disrespectful to teach our beliefs without wearing His chosen outfit, which of course is full pirate regalia. I cannot stress the importance of this enough, and unfortunately cannot describe in detail why this must be done as I fear this letter is already becoming too long. The concise explanation is that He becomes angry if we don’t.

You may be interested to know that global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking numbers of Pirates since the 1800s. For your interest, I have included a graph of the approximate number of pirates versus the average global temperature over the last 200 years. As you can see, there is a statistically significant inverse relationship between pirates and global temperature.
[img src=\'http://www.venganza.org/piratesarecool4.jpg\' border=\'0\' alt=\'user posted image\' /]
In conclusion, thank you for taking the time to hear our views and beliefs. I hope I was able to convey the importance of teaching this theory to your students. We will of course be able to train the teachers in this alternate theory. I am eagerly awaiting your response, and hope dearly that no legal action will need to be taken. I think we can all look forward to the time when these three theories are given equal time in our science classrooms across the country, and eventually the world; One third time for Intelligent Design, one third time for Flying Spaghetti Monsterism, and one third time for logical conjecture based on overwhelming observable evidence.

Sincerely Yours,

Bobby Henderson, concerned citizen.

P.S. I have included an artistic drawing of Him creating a mountain, trees, and a midget. Remember, we are all His creatures.
[img src=\'http://www.venganza.org/him2.jpg\' border=\'0\' alt=\'user posted image\' /]


To view other pictures of the FSM, as well as letters of support he's recieved from numerous people (including a number of PhDs), go to [a href=\'http://www.venganza.org/\' target=\'_blank\']http://www.venganza.org/[/a].

This guy is awesome. He's basically saying that unless it's proven by the scientific method (that is, varifiable and consistant results under controlled conditions), it probably DOES NOT BELONG IN A SCIENCE CLASS.
Does the 'theory of evolution' have flaws? Yes, of course. But that does not mean the ID is the only other explanation. (form what I understand, actually, there is no single 'theory' of evolution, beyond the idea that the best suited to an environment surrvive to make the most offspring)

I for one welcome our new Flying Pasta-like Overlord. May we all be forever touched by His noodly appendage.
 
Jesus Christ, this is the most inteligent form of protest I've ever heard about.

I don't understand what the Kansas school board thought. This is not even considered a scientific theory by the scientific community. How about they start eaching Graham Hancock in the History classes? Not that I have anything against Graham Hancock, but his theories are still far-fetched sometimes...
 
How very interesting!

One of the questions is what/how should be taught at schools as evolution, and furthermore as science. To judge this particular case, I would have to know how the evolution theory is being taught in Kansas - is it just Darwin or do the kids get other viewpoints to compare as well?

If not, it is wrong and quite naturally calls for advocates of different "theories" to try to get theirs into the textbooks. Despite being a Christian myself, I feel uneasy about "one true theory" being served to children. I prefer teaching in context, even between various subject matters. We should teach kids to always see and consider many options and be open-minded.

As for the Flying Spaghetti Monster man, his theory and its depth, especially accompanied by this
[img src=\'http://www.venganza.org/him2.jpg\' border=\'0\' alt=\'user posted image\' /]
reminds me of a certain psychiatric diagnosis. As open-minded as I am [!--emo&:)--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/smile.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'smile.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
Char, I think they'd be taught the general idea of evolution as is currently accepted by today's scientific community (not necessarialy Darwin)

Of course, we can never know FOR SURE the brocess by which homo sapien sapien came to inhabit the earth, but the experimentation and logical analysis lead scientists to come to a fairly close consensus on the subject
 
All I have to say is:

rIcHaRd dAwKiNs PWNS U!
RiChArD DaWkInS IS TEH R0XX0RZ!

[!--emo&:P--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'tongue.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
[!--QuoteBegin-IronDuke+Aug 18 2005, 04:13 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(IronDuke @ Aug 18 2005, 04:13 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]...but the experimentation and logical analysis lead scientists to come to a fairly close consensus on the subject
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Ok, this is what kids should be taught then, I believe. Along with a mention of how widely spread religions see the problem. Marginally, of course, since we are talking about a science curriculum.

[!--QuoteBegin-Maverick+Aug 18 2005, 04:13 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Maverick @ Aug 18 2005, 04:13 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]rIcHaRd dAwKiNs PWNS U!
RiChArD DaWkInS IS TEH R0XX0RZ!
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Is this what Darwin did to you or was it the Spaghetti Monster [!--emo&:D--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/biggrin.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'biggrin.gif\' /][!--endemo--] ?
 
Just check out The Selfish Gene or The Blind Watchmaker, you'll understand what I mean. [!--emo&:)--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/smile.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'smile.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
Darwin should be mentioned in the lessons about evoluton. I mean, he's the one that started evolutionism, so at least as a foot-note, him and his particular theory of evolution should be included in the curriculum.


Sometimes, I wish our rants could be spread out beyond the confined cyber-space of this forum... like that one time, we tried to design the perfect form of gouverment... I'l try to find that topic.. once again and continue ourwork...
 
I do think there's a place for teaching creation beliefs in schools, just not in a science class. I think that stuff is better left to cultural anthropology and philosophy teachers.

Most Christians/Muslims/Jews/Jim-Bobians are secure enough in their beliefs that they can reconcile scientific fact with their spiritual doctrine. It's the insecure ones (like the Kansas school board) who give the rest of us bad names and make us embarassed to tell people that we believe, lest we be categorized with those lunatics.

My personal take on all this is complicated, but summarized it is as follows: The Divine is infinite, and made the laws which govern how things work in the universe. (Sounds lame, I know...)
 
It doesen't sound lame at all. I d believe in a higher force that established that basic laws of physics and chemistry.I don't think think the divine forces ever interviened in any situation ever again. But htat's jsut me...
 
[!--QuoteBegin-Black Ace+Aug 18 2005, 04:38 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Black Ace @ Aug 18 2005, 04:38 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]Sometimes, I wish our rants could be spread out beyond the confined cyber-space of this forum...
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I know what you mean.

[!--QuoteBegin-IronDuke+Aug 18 2005, 04:38 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(IronDuke @ Aug 18 2005, 04:38 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]The Divine is infinite, and made the laws which govern how things work in the universe.
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I agree. Actually, many scientist have come to the conclusion that science and religion are not mutually exclusive. Even experts at fields such as quantum physics.

As for religion vs other subjects in school: There is an on-going debate in Slovakia whether religion should be taught alternatively with or separately from secular ethics (a compulsory subject in Slovakia). (Off topic)

(I will, Mav [!--emo&:)--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/smile.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'smile.gif\' /][!--endemo--] )
 
What cannot be experimentally verified or disproved by science falls automatically in the domain of subjectivity (which you also may call faith). The existence of a "supreme being", or god, is a hypothesis that's impossible to test objectively.

It is therefore up each and everyone of us to believe or disbelieve, as long as those beliefs are not forced onto others or create a feeling of superiority that may end up in the will to destroy whoever doesn't share the same faith.

When it comes to the origin of species on Earth (and probably elsewhere), evolution is more than just a theory. Many hypotheses have been tested and evolution is what is the closest to what actually happened (although some details are still not entirely explained, I trust that clarifications on the subject will come with time).

To sum this up, I'd say that evolution is backed by more fact than the existence of a god or the flying spaghetti monster (which doesn't necessarily entail that neither of them exist). Therefore, let's keep evolution to the science classes and god to the philosophy/cultural anthropology classes.
 
Here in Romania we have "religion" as a school subject. Needles to say it's the most boring class in the school curriculum. You have to take it, as long as you are officialy baptised. It adds up to your general average grade, so it sucks. You have to learn things that most priests don't even know...
 
[!--QuoteBegin--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]t is therefore up each and everyone of us to believe or disbelieve,[/quote]


That, in my opinion, is the central tenant of Christianity. According to (Saint) Paul, Man is justified through FAITH alone. You have to willingly believe even though it cannot be analytically proven.

Very well said, Mav.
 
What upsets me most in that on top of that page is an ad for The Good News published by the United Church of God whose main goal seems to prove that Darwin evolution theory is wrong. What the f..k is that ?
Maverick, don't you have any control on the advertisement on your own site ?

Since it has now disappeared, here's the [a href=\'http://www.gnmagazine.org/evolution/\' target=\'_blank\']link[/a] if you want to have a look
 
Syl, in answer to your question on whether Mav has any say over the ads:

complicated answer: no.

Here's how most modern internet ad agencies work - Companies which wish to sell you things go to an online ad agency and "we'll give you $xxx for every xxx visitors who come to our site/place an order via your ads."

The Ad company (we'll call it AdCo) agrees, and tries to get as many visitors as possible to go there, in order to get $ from the client.

Now, you have a website which costs money to maintain, so you need to place ads in order to offset the cost. You sign a contract with AdCo saying that you'll display their ads in exchange for $xx (more like $0.0x) per page view/ad click.

Since these companies want to maximize the number of people clicking on the ads, they tailor them to the individual page, using some fairly ingenious scanning software. They look for key words on the page, and post the most appropriate ad in their client list for that page, in the hope of attracting more people to the ad.
If AdCo can say that their ads will get to a more appropriate market, they can charge more for running the ads.

For insantce, the ads on this this thread. They are for some church group because the ad software scanned this page and saw repeated uses of the words "creation" "religion" etc.

If we posted a thread with words like "vacation" "travel" and "holiday" repeated often, I would bet we'd get ads for cheap hotels or airline tickets.

Simple answer: yes, he can switch ad agencies if he wants to.
 
[!--QuoteBegin--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]Darwin should be mentioned in the lessons about evoluton. I mean, he's the one that started evolutionism, so at least as a foot-note, him and his particular theory of evolution should be included in the curriculum.[/quote]

Darwin didn't start evolutionism. His theory would have been unthinkable hadn't it been for a gentleman named Lamarck, whose thoughts are despised by Darwinists, but whom Darwin states as an invaluable influence.

I personally don't hold Darwin to be the one and only truth when it comes to Evolutionism, but our modern scientific understanding bases on his ideas, so he should be much more than a footnote.
 
Like Isaac Newton wrote in his Principia:

"If I have seen farther than others, it is because I stood on the shoulders of giants."

All scientific breakthroughs are dependent on earlier work by other scientists.
 
It's interesting to see that all you know about evolution is based on Darwin's observations. Molecular biology gives nowadays a much better insight than Darwin ever did, and reinforces even more those observations and the fact that evolution is almost certainly the answer to the state of life as we currently know it.

Before you want to look into the choice between divine intervention and natural events, check out Occam's razor postulate. [!--emo&^_^--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/happy.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'happy.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
Unfortunately molecular biology is not as widely known as Darwin is with his species and the numerous caricatures that were created by his mockers.

Like this one [!--emo&:)--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/smile.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'smile.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
[img src=\'http://netmeme.org/blog/archives/images/darwin-ape.jpg\' border=\'0\' alt=\'user posted image\' /]
 
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