Yax
Ancient Mariner
This is nothing short of amazing.
European Politics
- Thread starter Forostar
- Start date
Azas
Eternal Knight
I was referring to the headline from Germany’s Bild, not the Daily Mail. I can agree that Bild tends to sharpen conflicts and frame things dramatically. But Merkel definitely said things that could be interpreted as “blaming Eastern Europe”—if I’m not mistaken, she claimed that Eastern European countries opposed dialogue with putin.
And if you still can’t see that she’s always been putin’s versteher—the “nothing personal, just business, let’s get that cheap gas” kind of Frau—then you’re either blind or willfully ignorant. She’s a total communist/stazi b****!
Bild link.
And if you still can’t see that she’s always been putin’s versteher—the “nothing personal, just business, let’s get that cheap gas” kind of Frau—then you’re either blind or willfully ignorant. She’s a total communist/stazi b****!
Bild link.
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Yax
Ancient Mariner
It's the same headline, and the same content in the article. The Daily Mail is essentially just parroting BILD.
And saying Merkel is a communist is just ridiculous. She is a center-right politician.
Aggelos
Ancient Mariner
it's the american way. if you are not a fasist, you're a communist.
Azas
Eternal Knight
She’s a realpolitik politician who had no problem cutting deals with putin—even after 2014. Don’t hide behind that “she’s a center-right politician” façade. Get your facts straight.
Also, by clinging to the words I throw at you, you tend to miss the bigger picture — the fact that the former chancellor of Germany was deeply flawed. The Frau that Failed. (overall politics wise)
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
I can’t think of a single person on this forum that loves Angela Merkel, dude. But you cannot just call someone a “communist” just because they defend Russia. Communism is a political term for a specific kind of economic system. I get you lived under Soviet authoritarianism, and I’m sorry for you, but you can’t just go calling this current Russian administration communist. That’s not what they are. It’s a right-wing fascist dictatorship with expansionist agendas.
Azas
Eternal Knight
I admit I
jazz from hell
Ancient Mariner
I do think Merkel gets too much hate from all sides. Her failures aren't just hers alone and she genuinely tried to serve the country and the world rather than just her own ambition.
What's your opinion on the "Coalition of the Willing" or the "Multinational Force Ukraine"?
What's your opinion on the "Coalition of the Willing" or the "Multinational Force Ukraine"?
Azas
Eternal Knight
So far, the “Coalition of the Willing” looks weak — lots of talk but not nearly enough meaningful action. First off, it would be great if the skies over Ukraine were secured. The hard, sad truth is that, without U.S. help or involvement, Europe is not very capable of deterring its enemies.
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
You already called her a bitch multiple times, so I feel like cunt would actually have been less aggressive, but you do you I guess.
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
You misunderstood, I meant your using cunt might've been less aggressive than you already using bitch.
Again, you guys lived under an authoritarian regime masquerading under communist ideals. My mom grew up under the same (or at least a similar) system in East Germany. There's no doubt from me that it was terrible. There's also no doubt from me that the current Russian imperialist crusade scares you because it reminds you of what you already escaped. I sympathize with you immensely.
But please understand where I'm coming from here. I live in a country that imprisoned and terrorized communists, sympathizers, and anyone who didn't quite fit the US agenda. I live in a country that helped take down left-wing politicians in the Americas because they did not gel with our business interests, leading to multiple authoritarian dictatorships. I live in a country that weakened a liberal Afghanistan so much that it fell into the hands of extremists. I live in a country that still calls anyone who differs from the capitalist agendas a communist, a socialist, and these are terms used to undermine their very humanity.
I'm saying all of this because as much as I understand where your coming from and why communism is a hateful term to you, I also must say it like I see it from my point of view. Frankly, the base principles of communism - a state where workers own the means of production, where no one man is greater than another - are things that I in large part agree with. I don't agree with the corrupted facade of communism used by the USSR, China, North Korea, etc, where one or a handful of men hold all the power. That is something that I am ardently against and also is probably why I am a little more skeptical of the means in which a true communist state could be achieved, and why I lean more practically toward democratic socialism.
And I get it. To you there was no corruption of communist ideals. That's just the end route of communism. But I hope you understand from my point of view why I feel we should be using words in their proper contexts and not just as flippant attacks towards another person.
I also hope that you appreciate that I said all this before Vaenyr jumped in. 
To add to what Diesel said (which I agree with 100%), we have a large population of people of Cuban descent who have helped deliver an important (former) swing state to an actually authoritarian three times because they are convinced by propaganda that the Democratic party wants to implement Castro-like rule in the country. The mechanisms to do that in America just don't exist, but I understand for those who lived under it this goes beyond political theory.
With that being said,
With that being said,
I think we are against the same things. A lot of frustration from myself, Diesel, and others further West comes from the fact that the discussion has been diluted by bad faith actors (nobody here) who are using fear to divide those who are not part of the aristocracy and further solidify their power.
Azas
Eternal Knight
That’s a big surprise to me. I always thought that in English-speaking countries, the “b-word” was considered much more acceptable than the “c-word.” I understand you can’t throw such names at just any woman, but in this case, I was swearing at a politician. Did I actually cross the line?
*
As for the other part of your post… Sorry, mate, but no. Just absolutely NO. I have zero sympathy for imprisoned communists.
There isn’t a single country in the world where the ideals of communism have actually succeeded. The USSR? China? For some, communism might look appealing on the surface—but behind its mask and feathers, as Magnus said, you’ll always find the same authoritarian regime that breeds idiocy, corruption, nepotism, and hypocrisy. You can’t have an opinion in that kind of society unless you’re ready to end up in a mental institution or in jail.
I’ll put it this way: you can only hate communists the same way you hate Nazis. Period. There’s no other way. None.
Edit:
And I’m talking here about the communists in our world who actually held power and supposedly led us into a “bright future,” not the written ideals or theories. The communists who wielded real power were just as brutal as the Nazis. Arguing that Stalin wasn’t a real communist is pointless—the state machinery preached those ideals, but in reality, it destroyed the lives of millions.
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Vaenyr
Ancient Mariner
(No worries, I'm not touching that discussion. Just silently reading alongI also hope that you appreciate that I said all this before Vaenyr jumped in.
)
Azas
Eternal Knight
Also, judging by the likes, it’s pretty clear that many of you long for some form of social justice, which you might associate with the ideals of communism. I completely understand—and even agree—that American capitalism can be too harsh on ordinary people. But for Europeans to actually crave communism? That’s pretty wild, in my opinion. You have no idea what you’re wishing for. Europe, for all its flaws, is already golden.