European Politics
- Thread starter Forostar
- Start date
Compared to all those countries, the Catalonian referendum is illegal, like the Kosovo one. Croatia separated legally. Scotland voted no in the legal referendum.
Magnus
Pica Serdica
Just deleted a long reply to NP because it was irrelevant. The point, as raised by @CriedWhenBrucieLeft, is that today's actions of the Spanish authorities are disgusting as well as idiotic to the extreme.
CriedWhenBrucieLeft
Meme Only Account
Hopefully it was a long rant about glass doors & the diddies that walk into them...
Precisely.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
What I've understood is that Spain in general, nor all/most political parties wanted this. What the hell was it then?
It was a Trumpian action by Prime Minister Rajoy. He gave what the followers of his party wanted. His electorate called for hard action and he is serving them. Very stupid because other people in the country are not behind this.
Magnus
Pica Serdica
I must ashamedly admit it was not.
Black Wizard
Pleb Hunter
But lived there for 22 years.
What the Spanish government did, though legal, was the worst possible way to respond to the events in Catalonia. Precisely the fact that they can point out that their actions are sanctioned by law will antagonise and radicalise many more Catalans. If, as Madrid says, the referendum is not legally binding and has no meaning, then why resort to violence to prevent it?
Dr. Eddies Wingman
Brighter than thousand_suns
Well said.
The Flash
Dennis Wilcock did 9/11
Just mindboggling. It's like they're actively trying to spark violence in the region.
Yes, this is pretty much what I have been trying to say. The repression of human rights in the region - not their non-existent right to secede, but the level of brutality issues - is completely unnecessary. They just have to ignore the vote.
You almost wonder if they are hoping for a more armed insurgency - that would give the government the ability to crack down via full martial law, and repress the people advocating for Catalan independence to a much greater level.
CriedWhenBrucieLeft
Meme Only Account
On the subject of the vote itself: Turnout was only 42% of the electorate; ignoring ballets that couldn't be counted for the moment. Not very high. Interestingly, the percentage of voters who voted yes (90% with a 42% turnout in this case) was actually the same as the Scottish result, expressed as a percentage of the total registered voters/electorate; ~38% in both cases. Difference is, Scottish vote had a 85% turnout and therefore held far more electoral legitimacy. I can't see how this result (taken as it currently stands) really equates to an expression by the Catalan people of wanting independence.
This is a very important problem for the democratic legitimacy of this referendum. However, it's too late for this debate now. The independence movements has the pictures of Spanish policemen beating peaceful protesters, and that's exactly what they need. This has empowered the independence movement, whether they represent the will of the majority of the population of Catalonia or not. These pictures have the power of emotional appeal and they command the perception of truth. The relevance of facts, statistics and data has perished on Sunday. This is how it works nowadays.
GhostofCain
Ancient Mariner
Democracy is a relatively new concept to them after 40 years of fascist dictatorship and a transition to democracy that allowed many of the people from the old regime recycle into democrats...
D
Deleted member 7164
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