Empire Of The Clouds
- Thread starter SinisterMinisterX
- Start date
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
Still just as amazing as the first time I heard it. Some of the most emotional music Maiden has ever put out, the piano helps bring to life this tragedy, yet they still retain Maiden's heaviness later on in the song. Also features some of their best lyrics (Oh the dreamers may die, but the dream lives on...). A true masterpiece and magnum opus, not just for Maiden and Bruce specifically, but also for metal as a whole. This song is one of the greatest epics of all time, yes, even beating ROTAM, which is a good song, nay, one of the greatest ever made, but this one is just maximum epicness. Eighteen minutes? Shit, I thought it was two!
This isn't 10/10. This is 11/10. There are only two songs that I like better in Maiden's entire discography, but comparing said songs, they don't hold a candle to this masterpiece as works of art. This song is truly Maiden's pinnacle. Let's see if they can top it.
This isn't 10/10. This is 11/10. There are only two songs that I like better in Maiden's entire discography, but comparing said songs, they don't hold a candle to this masterpiece as works of art. This song is truly Maiden's pinnacle. Let's see if they can top it.
Dentura
Invader
Quite simply the highlight of the album and one of the greatest songs the band has ever composed (if not the greatest period). The use of piano and orchestra is notable for an Iron Maiden song and helps lend this epic a certain level of weight and gravitas that few of their other songs possess (with some exceptions like Sign of the Cross and Rime of the Ancient Mariner). It is a highly conceptual, narrative piece where the music tells the story of the R101 airship just as much as Bruce's lyrics do. It starts out very much like a ballad before evolving into a heavy, thunderous pace bringing you along for a dynamic musical adventure. Everyone in the band puts their all into this work and the result is nothing short of spectacular, the 18 minutes fly by like its nothing. The only minor nitpicks I have are a few mistakes I noticed with the guitars (they are playing this live in the studio). Overall a magnificent opus that I have no clue how they'll be able to top if they decide to release a new album. 10/10
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Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
Reading through this thread again, I found this quote, and I honestly agree with it. EOTC is one of my favorite Maiden songs period (back you all know that!), and I can say that personally, I've often thought about whether or not this song really is that good. I mean, what I want from Maiden typically is great guitar work, great vocals, great bass, great drums, and great metal. Empire isn't really a metal song. It's more of a rock song than anything, yet still qualifies because it's written by Iron Maiden, like, fuck, if it's them it's metal. Sometimes I'll listen to Rime of the Ancient Mariner and go, jeez, this might be better than Empire. And then I'll listen to Empire and go, nope, it's still better. But Rime and Empire are two completely different songs. One's a 13 minute metal song that doesn't feel like an epic - Rime feels like a metal song that's just a little longer and with more tempo changes but is ultimately a normal song. And somehow, it pulls it off so well that it makes for an amazing epic as well. Empire, on the other hand, is just plainly epic in its scope - it's almost 20 minutes, for Christ's sake! Both are different - Rime is guitar driven, Empire is piano driver. Yet both are still Maiden. Both songs are still made by the best band in the fricking universe, and both songs are masterpieces. Both of them are high up on my list, because both of them are great songs. In the end, EOTC wins out, but despite being completely different than anything else Maiden ever did (well, except for maybe Journeyman), it's still a Maiden song, and as one it holds up so damn well.
Yeah, I'm still not making any sense, Also hey, third time I've posted in here my thoughts on the song. I'm sure y'all don't wanna see my rating again so I'll end with the following quote. LC said it best.
Travis The Dragon
AFTERGLOW!!!
Maiden doesn't need to top this amazing masterpiece. It would be really awesome if they did though!
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
Dangerina
Nomad
That's a shame how conservative metal fans are... You are only 27 yrs old, man, not 67! You have to like new things and changes! Me being a great McCartney fan, I LOVE a bunch of songs put together into one, he does it constantly, that's a normal thing for this artist. It sounds new, fresh and creative, not just playing the same old metal for 30 yrs till everyone's ears get sick. Music has to be diverse, and you want it to follow one and the same old scheme.
D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
With some time already passed, I'd say that this song kept its high marks. You can say that it's progressive but I attribute its success to excellent flow. There are irregular signatures, tempo changes, some key changes, but in 18 minutes? Less than some songs they did half its length.
Black Bart
Ancient Mariner
I gave it a 9 just because there is no solo from Janick (even though he plays the lead melodies) - come on there were 18 minutes to fill...- and I wonder if Steve actually plays on it...
D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
Why? He did depart from exclusively using technique that slaps the strings on the frets, e.g he tends to have traditional bass sound here and there nowadays. Maybe that's whats bothering you
Black Bart
Ancient Mariner
That is too strong a word but indeed, I find the bass sound unusual on this one.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
I think Bruce rather does not want Janick's solos on (his) Maiden songs. I remember a strong opinion on some TFF solo (The Alchemist I think) and recently read/heard him also saying that Janick did a better job on the Tattooed Millionaire album compared to Maiden work (or words in such vein).
D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
I'd like to read that in context if you ever remember the source. But yeah I get where Bruce was going with that.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
That last recent one might be from his own autobiography. The way he said it might sound less strong as I said. I'll look it up. The first one one was TFF era. Might be from Kevin Shirley's TFF diary.
Fact is that he didn't use Janick anymore since The Alchemist solo. I'm basically doing a 1-2-3 assumption (insinuation): Uttering 1, not used Janick since, uttering 2. I hope it isn't true and that Janick will be on a Dickinson credited song again on the next album.
EDIT:
@Zare
Fact is that he didn't use Janick anymore since The Alchemist solo. I'm basically doing a 1-2-3 assumption (insinuation): Uttering 1, not used Janick since, uttering 2. I hope it isn't true and that Janick will be on a Dickinson credited song again on the next album.
EDIT:
@Zare
Adrian's surprise departure left some exit wounds, and these could not simply be stitched up by clever PR and careful manipulation of the UK chart system. An essential piece of the Iron Maiden jigsaw was now missing, and the new piece, in the guise of Janick Gers, didn't match the space.
There is no reason why Janick should have sounded like a copy of Adrian at all. His style was clearly different, but we were bereft of the melodic duelling with Dave Murray's more florid style. Dave tended to fuse torrents of notes cascading over the solo sections, whereas Adrian always felt as if his solos were on the edge of a precipice, real cliff-hangers, so that you hung on every note.
Jan's guitar style and sound were more spiky and less processed, but I hoped that his arrival would see a bit more of the Janick that played on Tattooed Millionaire start to rub off on the Iron Maiden sound. Caught up in the enthusiasm of a first album, it was too much to expect of him, but our next album, Fear of the Dark, was an opportunity to move things on in a world that was changing fast.
There is no reason why Janick should have sounded like a copy of Adrian at all. His style was clearly different, but we were bereft of the melodic duelling with Dave Murray's more florid style. Dave tended to fuse torrents of notes cascading over the solo sections, whereas Adrian always felt as if his solos were on the edge of a precipice, real cliff-hangers, so that you hung on every note.
Jan's guitar style and sound were more spiky and less processed, but I hoped that his arrival would see a bit more of the Janick that played on Tattooed Millionaire start to rub off on the Iron Maiden sound. Caught up in the enthusiasm of a first album, it was too much to expect of him, but our next album, Fear of the Dark, was an opportunity to move things on in a world that was changing fast.
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Number 6
Ancient Mariner
I have mixed feelings about this song being on The Book of Souls. I mean, it's a masterpiece! Undoubtedly the best song on the album (since it was released on it). But... I don't know, it just feels out of place. Sometimes I wish this would've been released as a standalone single (maybe with an extra visual work, like Bruce says he intends on doing). It just doesn't have the same feel as the rest of the songs here; it's like this album abruptly ends after "The Man of Sorrows" and another one starts with "Empire". Am I the only one who feels this way?
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
That's something that I can understand, but for me, I consider the entire album to be one gigantic build-up for Empire of the Clouds. You've got 10 great tracks, none of them bad, and even a couple epics in there. Everything is already great as far as albums go, and then Empire comes on and you realize that you've been waiting for this entire moment from the start of If Eternity Should Fail. Which, by the way, is what I think all good closers need to be. Even if they aren't the best song on the album, they need to firstly provide closure and secondly a good deal of pay-off. This is why I like Empire, Rime, Fear of the Dark, Como Estais Amigos, Hallowed, and... most of Maiden's album closers.
Number 6
Ancient Mariner
Good point on Maiden's closing tracks. I 100% agree, and I think Maiden succeed most of the time. For me, there are very few closing tracks which were "disappointing", to some degree (but that's not to say they are bad songs in any way). "Iron Maiden" (it works wonders as a show closer, but for a studio album it just felt underwhelming), "Drifter" and "The Unbeliever" come to mind. "Only the Good Die Young" might be the band's best album closer yet (even though my favorite Maiden song is actually "Rime of the Ancient Mariner").
Well, all in all, "Empire" is a nice closer, too. Since it was ultimately made a part of The Book of Souls' track listing, there wouldn't be another track to fit as a closer. (Maybe, just maybe "The Red and the Black", but while I feel it does belong on the album, it wouldn't be very fulfilling to close the album with it.) It's just that, musically, it's such a drastic departure from the material on the rest of the album that it feels disjointed.