Empire Of The Clouds

How good is Empire of the Clouds on a scale of 1-10?

  • Total voters
    25
JudasMyGuide said:
The song was a disappointment then, I still don't think it's the masterpiece to end all masterpieces, it's definitely overlong (the first 6 minutes are very musically repetitive, IMHO) and it makes me sad Janick didn't get a solo in here... but it still is very beautiful. That melody after the first SOS, the final buildup, the lyrics, the fact they used a piano... A strong 8 from me.
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Yes I agree. Out of Maiden niche and in the general context of 18 min prog rockers this song is pretty solid, but no way spectacular (or masterpiece, an utterly overused word...).
It's not inventive in any way but tells its story with excitement and, although some parts tend to lag a bit, whole song seems shorter than 18 min.
 
Empire is the song nobody was expecting from Maiden, but they really delivered on it. It's a bit simple musically, but I don't mind it. I don't think anybody was expecting an extremely proggy epic by Bruce, it was obviously going to be very lyrically driven. It really comes off more as a folk song than a prog rock epic, so really left field from what we've come to expect from Maiden. I love the way it builds up, Nicko's snare drum patterns in the first few minutes really add to the drama of the song. In fact I almost want to give Nicko the MVP of this song. Most people are focusing on Bruce with this song (understandably) but Nicko really goes all out with this one. He's not just providing a beat for the song, but he's really adding to the intensity and drama throughout.

The song really gets going for me at the morse code bit. Everything from there to the end is perfection for me. Love how cinematic the whole thing is too. I can listen and visualize the aircraft in the sky, to its eventual downfall. Bruce did a great job with the imagery here, both in his words and the music. It's also very cool how this song revolves around Bruce's piano. I wasn't expecting that at all.

I agree that masterpiece is overused and doesn't apply to this song, but it definitely stands as one of the highlights in the Maiden discography, for its sheer uniqueness alone.

I hope they perform this with an orchestra someday. The potential is definitely there for something really special. The fake orchestra sounds are a bit cheap, a song like this deserves better.

Easily the most cinematic songs Maiden has done and somehow managed to do the impossible: Live up to the hype.

10
 
I have tried to summarise my biggest complaints regarding Empire and I think I have it.

1. It's way too melodramatic. You would have thought he's singing about the fall of Babylon or whatever.

2. However, surprisingly, it also (musically) lacks a clear climax - it just ... is. And then it isn't.

3. The instrumental part could have been longer and better. Also, no Janick solo.

4. Along with the previous - for 18 minutes it's way too repetitive and simplistic. Not enough meat on these bones.

5. Also, it's way too vocally, lyrically and atmospherically driven for its length.

6. The SOS is a cool idea in theory, but it brings the song to a halt... more than once. It also sounds very jarring, like a cut-and-paste songrwriting.

7. I don't like what Bruce is doing there - the first six minutes sound more like Hammill/Gabriel/Waters, heck, Bowie even, than Bruce and Maiden.

8. And finally... I just don't see this as Maiden, full stop. It would be great on a Bruce's solo album, mabe even on a special Maiden EP (like DT's A Change of Seasons), but it just doesn't fit the TBoS album, IMHO. It should be separated from the rest of their work, because it's not that much about the band, it sticks out like a sore thumb and it's way too weird to compare it with the rest of the Maiden material.

Also this:
Mosh said:
It really comes off more as a folk song than a prog rock epic
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Mosh has put it perfectly.

That said, I still like it. But I usually listen to it separately from the rest of the album and I don't get the adoration it gets.
 
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Wouldn't be surprised that book was the whole inspiration!
And this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curly's_Airships
Curly's Airships is a double CD by Judge Smith, released in October 2000. Smith regards the album as a new form of narrative rock music, which he calls "songstory". Curly's Airships tells about the R101 airship, crashing in France during its maiden overseas voyage in 1930. Amongst many others, Peter Hammill, Hugh Banton, Arthur Brown, David Jackson, John Ellis and Pete Brown perform on the project. Smith believes that the 2 hr 20 min work might be the largest and most ambitious single piece of rock music ever recorded.
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CurlysAirships-cover.jpg
 
Mosh said:
Some of the descriptions I've read makes me think we may hear a strong Genesis and/or Arthur Brown influence.
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That's what I was thinking. When I first heard it, I was thinking of Supper's Ready by Genesis but I also thought of Closer to the Edge by Yes. Empire of the Clouds is one of my favorite songs on The Book of Souls album. It is indeed an awesome song and a masterpiece!
 
I've written before about how repetition can be a great thing if you show variation on the theme and the melody is powerful enough.
The first 35 seconds of Empire is a testament to this.

Listen to it in the headphones. Listen to how it is bolstered by the addition of the bass, accented by the cymbal washes, splashed by mismatched, low-volume rhythm guitars. Such a simple, universal pattern, drenched in drama and nuance, the essence of good storytelling.

Multiply it by five or six similarly developed themes, built and arranged in thoughtful fashion - theatrical in the best, most human sense of the word - and you have Empire of the Clouds.

I love many things about Maiden, but when you talk about what defines the whole, they are incredible storytellers, storytellers for whom the words are but one element of the tale, and not the most significant.

The entire song is a testament to this; the words are wonderfully composed, but the song would work as well without them. I see the ship released from its bounds, its majestic climb, its terror, its fall, its eulogy. It's all there. You can feel it.

The crash of the R101 is a profound tragedy that has been told many times. But it has never been told with the kind of skill as it is told here, by the masters of the art. The restraint used when needed, the bombast when necessary, the performances, the interplay - it is all there in the right places and at the right times.

I have no problem saying it: this song is a masterpiece.
 
I only just heard "Empire of the Clouds" (I type the whole thing out because otherwise I feel like I'm talking about the Queensryche song. :P ) and already it's replaced TNOTB as my third favorite Maiden song. This is, in my opinion, the most epic thing they've ever done. Rarely have a nearly cried on a song, but here I started to get a little watery. It's just that good.

I've just read through all 20 pages of this thread to see what other people's thoughts on the song are. Lots of people apparently think that 18 minutes is too long for a song. I'm with those that think it's the shortest 18 minutes musically. Compared to "The Red and the Black", this song flew by, whereas the latter's solo (I think) seems to just go on forever. (Still a good song though, and TBH I actually think it works out fine.) Also, I heard a slimed-down version of the song on YouTube, where it was cut to only 6 minutes. It still worked, but it was over way too soon. 18 minutes is definitely what's needed for this song.

Personally, I've always been fascinated by airships, and zeppelins in particular, ever since I first heard about the Hindenburg. That's why Maiden doing a song about an airship is just so awesome. I never even heard about the R101 till I found out about the song. It's a profound tragedy (like the above poster has stated) and one that Maiden were able to put to music quite well.

The single's cover art as well is my favorite on any Iron Maiden album or single. It just looks so frickin' cool!

To summarize, I can definitely say that this Iron Maiden's most epic song, Bruce Dickinson's magnum opus, and one of the best songs of all time as well. To those that think it's a wannabe classic, no. This is a modern Maiden classic. Give it a few years and I bet people will still be loving it.

10/10 for me.
 
I would only add that I don't care for some of the guitar runs - they sound more like scale exercises to me than something more musically engaging.

I dunno...this song kinda feels like Maiden's attempt at November Rain (musically, anyway with the orchestration, piano, and buildup), but it doesn't have that big payoff/climax to justify the song length. It's weird because so many people go bonkers for it - I've tried, and tried, but I can't really get into it. Though I also said that about The Legacy and I ended up really digging that tune, so I'll keep giving it a chance.
 
mckindog said:
I love many things about Maiden, but when you talk about what defines the whole, they are incredible storytellers, storytellers for whom the words are but one element of the tale, and not the most significant.

The entire song is a testament to this; the words are wonderfully composed, but the song would work as well without them. I see the ship released from its bounds, its majestic climb, its terror, its fall, its eulogy. It's all there. You can feel it.

The crash of the R101 is a profound tragedy that has been told many times. But it has never been told with the kind of skill as it is told here, by the masters of the art. The restraint used when needed, the bombast when necessary, the performances, the interplay - it is all there in the right places and at the right times.
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Amen.
 
soundwave said:
I dunno...this song kinda feels like Maiden's attempt at November Rain (musically, anyway with the orchestration, piano, and buildup), but it doesn't have that big payoff/climax to justify the song length.
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I'd much rather listen to Empire of the clouds than November Rain, and I have no issues with the length of Empire. I don't classify it as a master piece, it's way too simple for that, but it is greatly enjoyable.
 
The legend of this song will be how it divided Maidenfans, but divided them completely politely. Everyone understands why someone else might love/hate this track.

Imagine if you played this track for someone who just listened to Steve, Dave, Dennis Wilcock and the like in 1978 and said, "Give it 40 years and here this band will be".

Imagine if you played this track at a Samson gig in 1981 and said "Bruce Bruce will write this."

Imagine if you played this track in 1996 when everyone was convinced metal was dead, told them Bruce and Steve was coming back and this would be the crescendo of an album 20 years down the line.

Not bad for a band that started out in the East End singing about Running Free, seeking Sanctuary from Killers, arranging evening visits with Charlotte the Harlot to protect her from Prowlers and Wrathchildren.

10/10 I want a dirigible.
 
+ The beautiful piano playing, and how it keeps building.
+ Bruce Dickinson. His singing is sensational. It sounds like he felt this needed to be extra emotional and subtle. Listen to how powerful but yet calm his voice in those first six minutes. He really puts his heart into it.
+ The 18 minutes feel like nine.
+ Nicko's drumming is very good, and really adds something special to the song.
- The Legacy: Part II. The riff is good, yes. It works, yes. But it annoys me how similar it is to Janick's riff in The Legacy.
- SOS. While I like the idea, I like the execution less and less every time I hear it. It's quite noisy.

8/10. Worthy conclusion to the album.
 
What a beautiful piece of music this is. Absolute masterpiece and Bruce's greatest ever contribution to the band's songwriting. Great storytelling from band right from the start with the pageantry of the drums and orchestration. The slow pickup of tempo with Bruce extending his falsetto just as the deep guitar riff kicks in. The haunting piano refrain embellishing the fateful decisions being made in the lyric. Then that magnificent clean riff which builds to the dramatic shift to the thumping instrumental. Then the stark drama of the 'crash' into the sadness and pathos of the aftermath. As a composition I think this is their best track since RotAM.

I'd happily sacrifice a few classics to hear this squeezed into a live set.

10
 
My main problem with this song is that once there is a new melody in it you know that you would be listening to it for the next minute or so. So the main problem as with other songs on the album is that they never actually played it as awhole before recording it. It is real sad that Maiden spend such little time in the studio. Metallica finetune their songs because they spend years in the studio.
 
Poto said:
Funny. When you listen to Maiden Metallicas latest albums you'd think it was the other way around.
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Haha, not quite. Please dont get me wrong. I like the Book of souls..I just think they did spend a bit more time on certain things.
 
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