Dream Theater

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But what’s that about Opeth’s latest album, is it good? I think I listened through it with one ear and liked it.

It's very dense, complex, very heavy, sounds really inspired. I couldn't and still can't get enough of it. It's not Oldpeth, but it's not Newpeth either. A prog fan's delight.

(I stopped and checked if it's just me and it isn't - this is a ridiculously high rating for a 30 year+ band's latter-era release

Op.png)

But you need at least 3-4 listens, IMHO, at first it's just too much and somewhat disorienting, even. Like I said, dense.
 
It's very dense, complex, very heavy, sounds really inspired. I couldn't and still can't get enough of it. It's not Oldpeth, but it's not Newpeth either. A prog fan's delight.

(I stopped and checked if it's just me and it isn't - this is a ridiculously high rating for a 30 year+ band's latter-era release

View attachment 41675)

But you need at least 3-4 listens, IMHO, at first it's just too much and somewhat disorienting, even. Like I said, dense.
Yeah, dense is the impression that I got. But fresh and original at the same time. Where is that rating from?
 
I’ve listened to new Opeth 6-7 times and it still hasn’t clicked with me. I’m glad they’re incorporating growls again, but the new style of writing just doesn’t move me.

The good songs on the Dream Theater album clicked with me immediately, but like most modern DT, it left my rotation pretty quickly. It’s good popcorn prog.
 
one can not wonder how spoilt DT fans could be.
I chatted up with some strangers after the show I was this past autumn. Their main takeaway was that "James sounded okay". I berated them and wondered why James was their main takeaway when Mike Portnoy returned. None of them wanted to talk to me after that. I guess that's on me.
 
I love Opeth’s newest observation. Easily my favorite of theirs since Ghost Reveries. Not a bad track on the whole album, and like @JudasMyGuide said, it’s inspired and really takes influence from almost every Opeth album before it.

The good songs on the Dream Theater album clicked with me immediately, but like most modern DT, it left my rotation pretty quickly. It’s good popcorn prog.
That’s how I feel, too. Midnight Messiah and the big epic are my favorites, and while none of the other tracks stink, most don’t have me rushing back to listen. I still think they’d be a far stronger band if they got a vocalist who didn’t sound like a bird and a cat thrown together in a dryer.
 
Now that I have time, I actually think the flow of this album is quite similar to DT12 in the way that there are a few standout tracks mixed in with some kind of generica riff driven prog metal tracks. On DT12 you have Looking Glass, The Bigger Picture, Illumination Theory, Behind the Veil all as pretty top tier Dream Theater, but then songs like The Enemy Inside and Enigma Machine feel a little by the numbers. On Parasomnia it's similar where I really enjoy Night Terror, Bend the Clock, and The Shadow Man Incident, but the rest of the album blends together a little bit. I think if you removed the Portnoy of it all, it's not that far removed from what they were already doing.

What sets Parasomnia apart though is the conceptual cohesion that Portnoy brought to the table. They haven't had an album with a clear identity other than The Astonishing since Black Clouds and Silver Linings. To have this element back alone makes the entire album worth it for me. Maybe Dead Asleep still needs to grow on me but as of now it feels like a bit of a mess. And yet I'm still spinning this album and giving the song a chance just because the way it references other material on the album gives it some extra weight. That alone is a huge contrast to View which, while enjoyable enough, felt very faceless.

To me, and excuse the pun, Parasomnia is a pretty major line in the sand for Dream Theater for better or for worse. I feel like they are sending a clear signal that they are not interested in stepping outside the boundaries of what we've come to expect from them. Taking into account the comparisons to Opeth, I don't expect DT to make similar big swings at this stage in their career. But on the other hand, when you consider the previous three albums were big swings and misses for me, I am kinda glad they are going back to the fundamentals of what made them a good band to begin with.

MP talks a lot about how they picked up where BCSL left off. I think that's mostly true. Not so much because they're forgetting the last 15 years of musical evolution, but more because DT didn't really evolve all that much to begin with while Portnoy was gone. It's a little less technical and there's more flow on the album I guess. BCSL and Systematic Chaos also seemed to have this more "off the cuff" style of the band just jamming and letting whatever came out naturally be the direction, and you get a similar vibe on Parasomnia as well.
 
Okay, I'll probably give it a listen later today, so I'll do a bit of a write-up. Possibly very idiosyncratic, from a Systematic Chaos lover (and I&W and the second half of Awake hater), but still.

We have listened to Budokan relatively recently and that was literally

ipe0lsneozee1.png

* chef's kiss *
 
On DT12 you have Looking Glass, The Bigger Picture, Illumination Theory, Behind the Veil all as pretty top tier Dream Theater, but then songs like The Enemy Inside and Enigma Machine feel a little by the numbers.
Honestly I think that entire album is near perfect. If I had to pick the weakest (aside from the opener), they’d be Behind the Veil and Along for the Ride, but I still love them all.

I think if you removed the Portnoy of it all, it's not that far removed from what they were already doing.
On this we agree. One thing I do love, though, are the numerous riffs in harmonic minor. Such a cool sound that DT doesn’t use as often as I’d like them to.

Maybe Dead Asleep still needs to grow on me but as of now it feels like a bit of a mess. And yet I'm still spinning this album and giving the song a chance just because the way it references other material on the album gives it some extra weight.
I think the music in that one is great, but there’s very little that stands out in the vocal department. None of the lines are catchy in the slightest, which is in contrast to several of the other tracks (but not all).

That alone is a huge contrast to View which, while enjoyable enough, felt very faceless.
AVFTTOTW I think actually has catchier songs in the form of Answering the Call, Sleeping Giant, Transcending Time, and much of the title track. The opener is decent, and Awaken the Master is painfully average (aside from the eastern melodies it’s quite paint-by-numbers). Sadly, Invisible Monster is one of the band’s weakest songs and drags the album down quite a bit. But it’s definitely not as cohesive thematically as Parasomnia, with really only the title track and Sleeping Giant sharing a theme (to me, anyway).

To me, and excuse the pun, Parasomnia is a pretty major line in the sand for Dream Theater for better or for worse. I feel like they are sending a clear signal that they are not interested in stepping outside the boundaries of what we've come to expect from them. Taking into account the comparisons to Opeth, I don't expect DT to make similar big swings at this stage in their career. But on the other hand, when you consider the previous three albums were big swings and misses for me, I am kinda glad they are going back to the fundamentals of what made them a good band to begin with.
The biggest swing DT took was The Astonishing, and we all know how that turned out. Unlike Opeth, DT is more of a business; they crank out technically impressive tunes with good riffage and often subpar vocals, and that’s their formula. They’ve been on that same path since Octavarium, honestly, and I think it has to do more with Rudess than anything.

In contrast, Åkerfeldt does whatever he wants, which even if you’re not a fan of it, is somewhat admirable.

I&W and the second half of Awake hater
…dude. Wow. I can understand the dislike for Awake (personally I think the second half is stronger), but I&W?! To each their own, but what don’t you like about it?
 
To each their own, but what don’t you like about it?

The sound (especially the drum sound is more atrocious to me than Mangini-era sound), the keyboards (not a huge Moore fan and the sounds he picks sound really cheesy), Pull Me Under is overplayed and overrated, Surrounded sounds like a 90s "Good morning" TV show, Another Day is merely an okay ballad, I don't like the funky stylisations of Take the Time, Wait for Sleep sounds like a place holder that feels too long for its two minutes and Under the Glass Moon, which I used to like, I love much more restructured as Lost Not Forgotten, heretical as such opinion might seem.

(also, much as I like Metropolis, let's admit it's not really a song)

It's kinda similar to TNOTB for me - a "classic" that I never really vibed with and that I feel is mainly pulled by its overrated radio hit(s) (PMU // TNOTB ) and one or two really stellar tracks (Metropolis + Learning to Live // Children of the Damned + Hallowed). But I realise I go against the flow here.


As for Awake, up to The Silent Man it's one of the strongest sequences on DT albums overall, I love every track... and then you get the mush of the Mirror and the extremely annoying Lie with the pseudo-raps or whatever that is, Lifting Shadows which is DT cheese in the worst possible way (I mean, it makes me yearn for The Astonishing), Scarred is the complete antithesis of Voices, this jumbled mess that became "an epic" because it had literally no other option, just throw some bollocks together and see what sticks... aaaand you top it off with Vest, which is one of the very few songs by DT I viscerally hate. It's just... icky, repulsive, I once said on this very forum it feels to me like watching a stalker masturbate and I don't think it's just because the background story - it comes across in the music as well.


Sorry, I realise I'm in the minority here, that's why I put there the caveat.
 
Now that I have time, I actually think the flow of this album is quite similar to DT12 in the way that there are a few standout tracks mixed in with some kind of generica riff driven prog metal tracks. On DT12 you have Looking Glass, The Bigger Picture, Illumination Theory, Behind the Veil all as pretty top tier Dream Theater, but then songs like The Enemy Inside and Enigma Machine feel a little by the numbers. On Parasomnia it's similar where I really enjoy Night Terror, Bend the Clock, and The Shadow Man Incident, but the rest of the album blends together a little bit. I think if you removed the Portnoy of it all, it's not that far removed from what they were already doing.

What sets Parasomnia apart though is the conceptual cohesion that Portnoy brought to the table. They haven't had an album with a clear identity other than The Astonishing since Black Clouds and Silver Linings. To have this element back alone makes the entire album worth it for me. Maybe Dead Asleep still needs to grow on me but as of now it feels like a bit of a mess. And yet I'm still spinning this album and giving the song a chance just because the way it references other material on the album gives it some extra weight. That alone is a huge contrast to View which, while enjoyable enough, felt very faceless.

To me, and excuse the pun, Parasomnia is a pretty major line in the sand for Dream Theater for better or for worse. I feel like they are sending a clear signal that they are not interested in stepping outside the boundaries of what we've come to expect from them. Taking into account the comparisons to Opeth, I don't expect DT to make similar big swings at this stage in their career. But on the other hand, when you consider the previous three albums were big swings and misses for me, I am kinda glad they are going back to the fundamentals of what made them a good band to begin with.

MP talks a lot about how they picked up where BCSL left off. I think that's mostly true. Not so much because they're forgetting the last 15 years of musical evolution, but more because DT didn't really evolve all that much to begin with while Portnoy was gone. It's a little less technical and there's more flow on the album I guess. BCSL and Systematic Chaos also seemed to have this more "off the cuff" style of the band just jamming and letting whatever came out naturally be the direction, and you get a similar vibe on Parasomnia as well.
I wholeheartedly agree, and I’m glad we all seem to think that The Shadow Man Incident kicks major ass.
 
So, I just heard the album, although only in car (so excuse any mistakes or ambiguity)

- Man, it's so great hearing DT album where the drum sound doesn't completely suck. And it's not about Mangini - ADTOE was fine - but Portnoy sure knows how to make sure his drums won't sound like arse.

- In similar vein, not only the technical aspects of the sound improved quite a bit (at least I think it sounded much clearer, lively and less tinny, although again, I listened to it only in the car), but I really appreciate that they sound... not "heavy", which was the first thing that come to mind, nor "angry", really, but somewhat ... darker? The album has "balls", "swagger", it sounds miles different from the "Eunuch Theater" of the past 14 years or so.

- My suspicion has been confirmed and indeed Portnoy must have been the main person responsible for the structure of the tracks and the "general songwriting" - meaning there are next to no Frankenstein monsters this time around and with certain exceptions (like Midnight Messiah chorus) there are no illogical shifts and abrupt changes - they are returning to the era of good internal progressions.
It's not all back to perfect, though - the lengths of the tracks feel more or less randomly picked, some could use some serious trimming, some could be longer, but in general it's a great improvement.

- Instrumentally, it's pretty much great, as expected, but although I've always been a La Brie apologist (in studio - I think he really is important for the band sound and I can't imagine anyone else singing so that they would remain "Dream Theater"), this time around he really is the weakest link. He's not bad, but so processed the vocals sound almost inhuman and mechanic - it's not enjoyable at all and feels like one of the last remnants of the Mangini era.
Also, the vocal melodies pretty much universally suck (with an exception or two) - Night Terror sounds like the vocals are what amount to two notes overall; at least instinctively it sounds less melodic than some rapping I've heard. Really, nothing is really memorable, vocal-wise, which is indeed a problem, because that used to be one of their strengths.
I don't know if La Brie is still responsible for the vocal lines as well, but if he is, then he must be completely burnt out.

- Morpheus was fun and a good opening. Maybe it's just I haven't heard too much DT lately (apart from Budokan) and I'm not oversaturated, but it actually got me a bit excited, hearing some of the DT/LTE chemistry again.

- Night Terror was a terrible pick as a single, as it is potentially the weakest song of the entire album. People used to complain how A Rite of Passage was pedestrian and DT by numbers, but it had a catchy chorus and driving riffs, this here song just... is. Not offensive, but like I said, as a single it had completely put me off the album, because it fit (and still fits) really well with the AI cover artwork

- A Broken Man has a fun beginning and really enjoyable instrumental section, but again, the sung parts are completely ... not there, I just literally couldn't grasp anything here

- Dead Asleep - nice intro (one of the first subdued sections on the album so far) and the first "proper" section switching between Zakk Wylde and Octavarium moods was surprisingly working for me. The Trucci solo reminded me of ... Knopfler?, mainly in the first part, Rudess' solo also reminded me of someone else (Lord?), but I don't mean that in a negative way, some of the best solos on the record for me. Again, if you put a gun to my head, I couldn't tell you how the verse or the chorus go.

- With how Midnight Messiah starts, I was really wondering why this wasn't both the opener and the first single, as the entire buildup from the beginning is much more captivating than Night Terror. Then the weird hiccup with the Foreigner-style chorus suddenly made me realise why. I think I'll get used to it, but what a weird choice.

- Are We Dreaming - on this mostly very loud album, I like every subdued moment there is, for some dynamics, although this nears ambient.

- Bend the Clock feels predictably like the most finished, thought-out and completed song, which I indeed would expect from the radio semi-ballad. One of the rare catchy vocal parts on the album, excellent Trucci Trucciness in the end (I mean, the whole album would be worth it for this kinda Gilmouresque moment alone) and, well, like I said, the effect is predictable and it's all kinda cheesy, but I'll allow it.

- The Shadow Man Incident. It's really good. I mean, to me it feels like the track they really wanted to release (and then realised that EPs are not en vogue nowadays) - I'm still not quite sure why 20 minutes, except for the tradition, but it is enjoyable throughout and feels really coherent. Probably La Brie's best moments on the album. The video game keys about the (13th?) minute are hilarious . In general, some of the more intriguing sections here - the extended instrumental section flows naturally and is actually kinda memorable (more than most of the vocal lines on the rest of the album, really). More listens needed.


Overall, it's mostly good. Indeed, "not great, not terrible". After the first listen, I don't remember much, but unlike the previous albums (especially AVFTTOTW, or whatever the acronym is, which I've heard possibly only twice or thrice and felt no need to revisit), I'm actually kinda intrigued and enticed to return and let the melodic flatness turn a bit to something more memorable on repeated listens.

Unlike Opeth, they're more of "technicians"; they don't have a single "genius" among them, who'd push them to do something both strange and idiosyncratic and really good, but this here will do, with potential for improvement in the future (I don't think this is their last release).

Obviously, Portnoy is this good luck talisman or something, as his mere presence tends to elevate the music at least a little bit (see Neal Morse for confirmation)
Anyway, they're slowly plodding and huffing, but at least they're finally on the right track.
 
I think it just comes down to the simple fact that the heart and soul of Dream Theater's sound is Portnoy, Petrucci, and Rudess (obviously they made a couple albums without Rudess that worked just fine to say the least, but the writing style and approach was obviously different pre-1999). So I am a bit reluctant to say that Portnoy is the magic sauce, as they still made pretty good music without him and Rudess/Petrucci are still the ones actually writing the riffs, but there was certainly something missing on the last few albums and breaking that core writing partnership is probably what caused that (I think I would feel the same if either Petrucci or Rudess exited the band instead of Portnoy).

The other thought I've had is that maybe this reunion is about a decade overdue. You can probably find speculation in this very thread about Mangini not being long for the band back toward the end of the DT12 era. Not coincidentally, around this time Portnoy started to appear in public with former members (mainly Rudess) and I think many would agree that the intrigue around both Dream Theater and Mike Portnoy projects started to wind down. DT would go on to make The Astonishing and while The Similitude of a Dream was presented as a big achievement for Portnoy, you start to get the feeling that he is trying really hard to fill the hole left by not being in DT anymore. I wonder about the alternative history where the reunion actually happens in 2015 and we get some sort of weird frankenstein of Parasomnia, Similitude, and The Astonishing. The Portnoy-less DT validated itself on the first two albums, but I'm not sure you could say the same after. Ditto with most of Portnoy's projects in the last 10 years (I love a lot of what he did immediately after leaving DT and followed him closely for a good 6 or 7 years after).

BTW this is not to take anything away from Mangini. I think he brought a lot of interesting ideas and dimensions to the band, but he clearly wasn't allowed to be anything more than a caretaker for the drum role and he even says as much in the documentary about his audition. He understood the assignment and did what he needed to do, but it doesn't seem like JP/JR (or the DT organization as a whole) had any interest in filling the void that Portnoy left and that hurt them especially starting with The Astonishing.
 
I think it just comes down to the simple fact that the heart and soul of Dream Theater's sound is Portnoy, Petrucci, and Rudess (obviously they made a couple albums without Rudess that worked just fine to say the least, but the writing style and approach was obviously different pre-1999). So I am a bit reluctant to say that Portnoy is the magic sauce, as they still made pretty good music without him and Rudess/Petrucci are still the ones actually writing the riffs, but there was certainly something missing on the last few albums and breaking that core writing partnership is probably what caused that (I think I would feel the same if either Petrucci or Rudess exited the band instead of Portnoy).

"She said, 'It's really not my habit to intrude // Furthermore, I hope my meaning won't be lost or misconstrued // But I'll repeat myself at the risk of being crude...'"

...well, at the risk of being crude, I can help but feel like it's indeed the "Balls" Paradigm - Portnoy gives his project certain edge that some of the more effeminate bands like DT and Neal Morse sorely need, especially in order to play progressive rock and progressive metal.

It might be beause of his dynamic drumming and the way he makes the toms sound, but I also argue that must be because of himself as such; he is certainly the most passionate, with the most obvious care given about everything, even after quitting drinking he still is the most abrasive member, or at least he looks like it (certainly less agreeable than most of the members of the groups and especially than Mangini) and I know this isn't rational, but instinctively, it somehow shows in the music itself.

He's daaaaayngerous. In the words of Billy Gibbons, "he's bad, he's nationwide." He's probably the only person in the entire combination of DT and Neal Morse-ensemble groups of people who has any idea what it means to live with demons, if you know what I mean.

I mean, ADTOE was already much softer, cleaner... "sissier" album than nearly anything previous (even Octavarium, which is half radio pop) and while it worked for that one album, it's become quite a bit of a problem over time. I liked DT12 and even The Astonishing to a degree, but despite the latter being such a huge departure and experiment, it all still felt like the band is missing someone pushing them.

In other media, we call this "protection from editors", meaning you've got big and you can do whatever you want and the result is often ... iffy. I feel in music it might be similar, once you "make it", you need internal incentive to do greater and better things and maybe for his hyperactivity, maybe for his goat-like stench of manhood he emits or whatever else, he seems to me as able to provide it.

The other thought I've had is that maybe this reunion is about a decade overdue. You can probably find speculation in this very thread about Mangini not being long for the band back toward the end of the DT12 era. Not coincidentally, around this time Portnoy started to appear in public with former members (mainly Rudess) and I think many would agree that the intrigue around both Dream Theater and Mike Portnoy projects started to wind down.

I feel like nearly every reunion is long overdue, possibly combined with the fact that nowadays it's not really in fashion to admit mistakes, humble yourself or anything else - you have to double down, grit your teeth and go the obviously wrong way until it's absolutely unavoidable. Nightwish should have reunited with Tarja in 2013 (especially with Jukka and Marco still in the band), Rhapsody are in the state where the former and the current singer can release an album together (because hey, why not) before Staropoli and Turilli work in the same studio and so on.

I wonder about the alternative history where the reunion actually happens in 2015 and we get some sort of weird frankenstein of Parasomnia, Similitude, and The Astonishing.

Now you made me think about DT and Morse doing a project together. Considering the fact my favourite Morse album already has Portnoy and Rudess on it, I don't see it as an exceptionally bad fit and honestly, Morse's pop-tune sensibilities is exactly what Parasomnia is missing, because DT seem to not possess these anymore.

If anything, the Neal Morse Band output was more consistent, enjoyable and altogether replayable than anything DT have released recently and I'm glad we got that, but I'd exchange that for still-in-the-momentum Dream Theater in a heartbeat.

BTW this is not to take anything away from Mangini. I think he brought a lot of interesting ideas and dimensions to the band, but he clearly wasn't allowed to be anything more than a caretaker for the drum role and he even says as much in the documentary about his audition. He understood the assignment and did what he needed to do, but it doesn't seem like JP/JR (or the DT organization as a whole) had any interest in filling the void that Portnoy left and that hurt them especially starting with The Astonishing.

Definitely not, I like his personality and even his playing, it's just he was a bad fit (I mean, if I look at it with hindsight, of the drummers they considered - or at least pretended to consider - I think Portnoy would be much better replaced, say, with Wildoer or even Donati, someone more "out there" and with a more strongly-coming personality) and combined with the bad sound, lacklustre attitude from the rest of the band (they're not getting any younger after all), some questionable choices and overall drop of quality that might have happened even with Portnoy, it did the band no favours and unfortunately created this antiseptic version of whatever it was I loved about the band. "AI Theater", kinda.
 
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