Disturbing Maiden theory

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IronDuke

Ancient Mariner
Let me say first of all that I'm probably going to get flammed for this. I don't really care. Flame on.

On an earlier thread this week which has since been deleted (the so-called 'Anti-American' thread), someone mentioned that Maiden concerts in the States will draw 5-6000 people on average, whereas in Europe they can easily get 50-60,000. They prefer to play in front of the larger audiences because it's more intense, and the fans really get into the music.

This led me to think that, perhaps, Maiden may not be as 'for the fans' as we tend to think. What if they don't really care about how 'into it' their fans are at concerts? What if they only prefer to play in Europe because they can sell 10x the tickets, 10x the merchandise, etc.?

If Maiden truly was playing for the love of music and for the entertainment of their fans, why don't they play the small venues anymore? Take my city as an example:
Halifax is a city of 400,000, with a surrounding 'hinterland' of towns and cities about 1.3 million. (populations of NS, NB, and PEI)
Of those 1.7 million total, I bet Maiden could easily fill 8-10,000 seats in a concert.
The history teacher of LC and I in high school told us that Maiden played in Halifax twice in the early-mid 1980's and everyone went f**king crazy they enjoyed themselves so much.
So why don't they come back? Guys like LC and I can't afford to go to Montreal or Toronto for a concert (it's a very expensive trip, and we're not exactly rich people)
Chances are I'll never get to see Maiden play live, and Ii'm kinda pissed off at the band for that. (I know, it's the agents who actually plan the tours, but I don't see them when I think of Maiden!)

Sure, they won't be able to make as much profit by playing a small North American venue, but there are fans here who have bought the CDs, the t-shirts, the posters, the other merchandise, etc for years and deserve to see their favourite band live.

Bruce himself said to the fans at Waldrock "the reason we're on this stage tonight...is because you put us here, and without you we're nothing!" Maybe it's time they took that to heart.

Duke.
 
Dukey, how can you reply to that.
I totally agree.
If Maiden did care about the fans instead of the money. They would play small venues in places they havent played/havent played in a while.
I think Maiden are going to do that some time. Because they are coming to an end (Not too soon I hope) and they need to get people to remember them and get new fans and stuff.
But, and this is a big but, if Maiden played a small gig in Halifax or somewhere, it would sell out so quickly that many people wouldnt have a chance, you forget that Gothenburg (which seats a lot more than 10,000) sold out in about an hour was it.

I think its kinda complicated for Maiden.
 
Speaking of small venues - Maiden played twice in their history in my small European country. First time in my hometown during Real Live Tour, second and last time in a small town called Zilina, with Blaze (needless to say, at a time when many fans were turning away from metal).

So this might and may not support the above theory. For one thing I was speaking of Europe, where Maiden has always had a good fanbase. On the other hand, my country is now certainly completely uninteresting to the agents. It's no problem for us to travel to Vienna or even Prague though, because the distances are petty here in Central Europe.

Sorry you haven't seen Maiden (as a main act, mind you), because nothing compares to the amazing atmosphere created by Maiden fans. And that's one of the reasons they come to shows, and forget all agents and ticket sells (and some weirdos actually even buy expensive beverages or T-shirts).
 
I think it has more to do with the age of the band, lets face it, they're not as young as they were, and are in no shape to do another World Slavery tour, so they have to pick gigs where they can guarantee a good crowd, as the number of dates they can do is limited.
 
Iron Maiden was one of the hardest touring bands of the 80's. That they did extensive tours of 'small market' Canada (Halifax, Moncton, Sudbury, etc) shows their dedication to fans.

If anyone has been to a US Maiden concert vs Canada/Europe they can attest to the fact it is the intensity if the crowd not the size that, makes the difference.

But touring also costs money and I don't think you can slag a band for things that may not be 100% in their control. As much as they love their fans, no band can tour for free or at a loss.

The 'small market' shows were supplemented by the larger tour. Iron Maiden was probably taking a financial loss playing places like Moncton and Sudbury but that was balanced out by the large US market.

The US market is very finicky and if you aren't in front of the news or top of the charts you get ignored. Like Queen in the past (who never toured the US post 'Another One Bites the Dust'), Iron Maiden has difficulty keeping the attention of US fans without MTV/media support. They will always have their core following there (as many vocal US Maiden fans will attest) but they would have real difficulty selling out 3 nights at Long Beach like they did in 1985.

But make no mistake, they are definately a band that supports the fans. Just look at the effort they made to do special shows in four cities (Quebec, Montreal, New York and LA) before going to Japan. Certainly those cities were chosen because the dedicated fan-base made it financially viable to do the shows. But a band of Maiden's stature surely doesn't need the meager income that 4-5 stand alone shows would bring. At least not so desperately as to travel all the way to North America before doing the Japan tour.

Just because Iron Maiden doesn't play your home town doesn't mean they are dissing you [!--emo&:)--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/smile.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'smile.gif\' /][!--endemo--]

Mahlon
 
They need to get rid of Gers though and stop clothes shopping at the Salvation Army [!--emo&:blush:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/blush.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'blush.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
Edinthehead, please read my post again. You're missing the point.

[!--QuoteBegin--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]But make no mistake, they are definately a band that supports the fans. Just look at the effort they made to do special shows in four cities (Quebec, Montreal, New York and LA) before going to Japan.[/quote]
It may come as a shock to you in Ottawa, but it's F**KING HARD for some fans to make it to those large cities. Playing in big cities is a sure money-maker for them. If they truly wanted to "support the fans", they would take a chance on small venues. They would adjust their set-up costs according to the number of tickets they were expecting to sell. (ie- it wouldn't be as fancy and flashy as the 50,000 ticket stages)
Big bands play here all the time, it only seems to be a problem for Iron Maiden.

[!--QuoteBegin--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--] But a band of Maiden's stature surely doesn't need the meager income that 4-5 stand alone shows would bring. At least not so desperately as to travel all the way to North America before doing the Japan tour.[/quote]
So you agree, then, that they're just in it for the money? I don't, but there is evidence to support the claim.


[!--QuoteBegin--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]Just because Iron Maiden doesn't play your home town doesn't mean they are dissing you[/quote]
that's not what my post is about. Maiden doesn't play anyone's hometown anymore, and a whole new generation of fans are missing out on some really great music.
Someone said in a previous post that Maiden owes their fans. I laughed at him at the time, but now I think he may have been on to something. They owe me and hundreds of thousands of others for all the CDs, shirts, and support we've given them over the years.

At least Metallica is honest about being in it just for the money.
 
I think any band that says they are not in it for the money is just flat out full of crapploa.
Especially as long as bands like Maiden have been around. Why do you think Sabbath
tours? Money
 
I agree with penguin's post. The Maiden guys are not in their 20's anymore. Your body is changing all the time. They still run and act as if they are 25 but in reality they are in their 40's. Another thing is that they are also fathers, and husbands and they also need to spend time with their wives, children, and family.

When they were young they did not have these responsibilities.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-Power-Slave74+Aug 12 2005, 01:44 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Power-Slave74 @ Aug 12 2005, 01:44 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]They need to get rid of Gers though and stop clothes shopping at the Salvation Army  [!--emo&:blush:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/blush.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'blush.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
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If they fire Janick I think I'll stop listening to Maiden. He rocks.
 
thread-jacking SOB [!--emo&:p--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'tongue.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
[!--QuoteBegin-IronDuke+Aug 12 2005, 02:06 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(IronDuke @ Aug 12 2005, 02:06 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]Edinthehead, please read my post again. You're missing the point.
It may come as a shock to you in Ottawa, but it's F**KING HARD for some fans to make it to those large cities.[/quote]
I grew up in Thunder Bay, Ontario. I know full well what it is like to be be far from a major market. Though the drive to Winnipeg was definately worth it for Powerslave in 1984, my first Maiden show!!!


[!--QuoteBegin-IronDuke+Aug 12 2005, 02:06 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(IronDuke @ Aug 12 2005, 02:06 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]So you agree, then, that they're just in it for the money?
[/quote]
Actually my point was the opposite. The 'profit' from these four shows would probably have been very small (compared to the over-all income if IM Inc.) and therefore the motivation to do them before going to Japan must have been more than money. To the band at least.


[!--QuoteBegin-IronDuke+Aug 12 2005, 02:06 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(IronDuke @ Aug 12 2005, 02:06 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]that's not what my post is about.
[/quote]
If you check my post you'll see a put a 'smilie' on this line to indicate it was tongue in cheek. It certainly was not aimed personally at you.

I agree with you that Maiden is touring North America less extensively than they did in the past. And I agree that financial factors have an impact.

But I disagree that just because it is not as financially viable that it therefore means that Maiden does not care for their fans.

It is not financially viable for you to travel from Halifax to see Maiden. Even though it is only a 10 hr drive to Quebec City. Only $250 (return) to fly to Toronto by WestJet. But I'm sure you are no less a Maiden fan than those who make the effort to travel and see them.

And believe me, I travel a long way to see many shows so I know what effort (and reward!) is involved. But I don't blame the band for these decisions because I know there are more factors involved.

Speaking of which, I will be in Halifax for the first time in my life in September to see Pearl Jam and I am really looking forward to seeing the East coast!

Naturally I would buy any Maiden fan a beer or six if they want to meet up and show me the sights. [!--emo&:)--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/smile.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'smile.gif\' /][!--endemo--][!--emo&:)--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/smile.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'smile.gif\' /][!--endemo--][!--emo&:)--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/smile.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'smile.gif\' /][!--endemo--]

Mahlon
 
[!--QuoteBegin-Pico-Union+Aug 12 2005, 02:22 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Pico-Union @ Aug 12 2005, 02:22 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]When they were young they did not have these responsibilities.
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Bruce said they have more energy and are playing better now than when they were in their 20's because in their 20's they were (to paraphrase) young, dumb and drunk all the time.

LOL

Mahlon
 
[!--QuoteBegin-LooseCannon+Aug 12 2005, 02:52 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(LooseCannon @ Aug 12 2005, 02:52 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]If they fire Janick I think I'll stop listening to Maiden.  He rocks.
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Yeah, he's good but, geez, the 80's are over Janick
 
Duke...
I know it's pissing you off that Maiden don't play Halifax, and I can understand that.
But imagine this:

Maiden play Halifax. The people in Vancouver will say "Hey, why the fuck aren't they playing here?"
Maiden play Halifax and Vancouver. The people in Edmonton will get pissed.
So they add Edmonton. The people in Winnipeg get pissed.
So they add Winnipeg. The people in Thunder Bay get pissed.
We have a large-scale Canadian tour there, for a country with only a few million.
Fine.
The people in Australia get pissed. So, Maiden play Sydney, Melbourne, Perth, Adelaide and Darwin.
The people in Brazil get pissed. So they play Rio de Janeiro and Sao Paulo. The people in Fortaleza and Belém get pissed. So they add these cities. Next thing is the people in Argentina, Chile and Peru get pissed. So, they add Buenos Aires, Cordoba, Mar del Plata, Santiago de Chile, Temuco, Lima, Cuzco, Iquique and Pisco. Then, the people in Mexico demand a new tour. Add Cidudad México, Monterrey, Acapulco, El Paso and Guadaljara.
And this not including the US, Europe and Japan!
You get the picture? Maiden can't play every city, they can't play to every fanbase, they can't play to every fan. Of course it is unfair to a lot of fans, but the band aren't getting younger, and if a tour like the World Slavery tour burnt them out so much in their mid-twenties, just imagine what it will do to them in their late forties.
 
Perun, you're missing my point too.

(I think it may be my fault, I did digress a bit in my original post)

My point is that Iron Maiden might just be in this for the money, and since they make 10x the profit from a show in Europe as they do from a show in the States/small city, the choose to play those.

I just used Halifax as an exaample, because it was (quite naturally) the first small city which sprung into my head.
 
What Maiden could do is play small cities under a different name.
Something not that easy to spot (remember Charlotte And The Harlots, little bit more harder to recognise then that) Of course, use devout Maiden fans would see right through it. And some fan who has one album and lives in a large city and would spend a lifetime deciding if he wanted to go to any Maiden gig, would miss out.
 
I hope they play my backyard [!--emo&:blink:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/blink.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'blink.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
I see your point Duke, but you forget that maiden played Oslo Spectrum on the 'early days tour' and eventhough Spectrum is Norway's largest indoor venue it won't take more than 8000 or 9000 people. They probably did not make too much money on that one. And we must not forget that they played in Iceland aswell, for an even smaller crowd.
 
Well, it is not so much that they are not for the fans, but all bands play big venues, the bigger they get the bigger venues they play... usually. It's also because more people can go to the shows and they are trying to take their music to the most people possible. Many bands don't come to arizona, when they do they go to phoenix because everybody that lives in the surrounding villages (they are to small to deserve the title "town") can go too.
 
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