Rather than the very real ethical problems with direct human cloning, which is a learned scientific and philosophical debate, just saying, "God wouldn't like it" is a copout.
Deconstructing Eddie: My Iron Maiden Songs & Albums Countdown
- Thread starter valacirca
- Start date
valacirca
Trooper
At the start of the song, it talks about possible imperfections of the cloning process and uses a comparison to Frankenstein - a crudely created creature - to show how this being would have to forever bear and be damned by its abnormalities. Abnormalities that may be brought about by being an artificial creation.
The song goes on to discuss this situation more introspectively, and I don't think that it's difficult to imagine someone in this situation questioning the nature of his existence... feeling like he's been cursed and living in his own personal hell on earth... being on a never ending quest to find his place.
By the time the song reaches its chorus, I think the point isn't that "God wouldn't like it" or "Cloning is bad." Rather, the point could be that so much effort, research, testing and development is put into this science of cloning that the people reponsible for it and its patrons might be forgetting that they're dealing with (and could end up ruining) people's lives. That a certain level of humanity should still be maintained amidst this endeavor.
There's certainly a religious undertone... but like I said, I don't think it's as heavy-handed as people make it out to be.
The song goes on to discuss this situation more introspectively, and I don't think that it's difficult to imagine someone in this situation questioning the nature of his existence... feeling like he's been cursed and living in his own personal hell on earth... being on a never ending quest to find his place.
By the time the song reaches its chorus, I think the point isn't that "God wouldn't like it" or "Cloning is bad." Rather, the point could be that so much effort, research, testing and development is put into this science of cloning that the people reponsible for it and its patrons might be forgetting that they're dealing with (and could end up ruining) people's lives. That a certain level of humanity should still be maintained amidst this endeavor.
There's certainly a religious undertone... but like I said, I don't think it's as heavy-handed as people make it out to be.
Genghis Khan
Ancient Mariner
I was waiting for someone to mention his commentary on the song. 
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
valacirca said:How can you conclude that they'll make the list?
FYIo that means seven songs are outside of the Top 150...
Hmm alright, wrong reading of my part.
I guess I'd rather have a complete list myself instead of a round number list. Especially when the difference is "just" 7. But it's a difficult task still, this huge list, so I can have some understanding when you want to shorten it if you can.
About that sentence, I liked that too Invader!
LooseCannon said:
I'm a hardcore atheist just like You Know Who, but even I have always thought his commentary on this song was extreme.
I totally get how it's annoying for us atheists to hear others talk about their religion. But here's a simple fact: most people are religious. If you bristle at every mention of religion, you're in for a rough time.
You Know Who had good points about how non-scientists are misinformed about cloning, but his extreme atheism always had a tendency to cloud his judgment.
I don't think this is his atheism. I actually think it's because he is a biologist himself, and someone who has done some work in that field (though, iirc, he is now into pharmacology).
Invader
Ancient Mariner
I remember thinking "what the fuck" a bit when I first read that part of the Commentary (before I even knew who maverick was). He talks one paragraph about the song, and then four paragraphs not talking about the song. Not that I disagree with him per se, but it was a bit extreme.
Ranko
I'll shoot the gunner first!
SinisterMinisterX said:
Richard Dawkins in his "The God Delusion" talked about this very issue - why does society hold the very discussion of religion on some pedestal, shielding it from any critical discussion? As he stated, you can disagree about anything - sports, politics, music, movies. But if you say something bad about religion, you're an lunatic who should be outcast. Fuck that. (Sorry for the offtopic, I couldn't resist.)
Genghis Khan
Ancient Mariner
Ranko said:
Can I get an Amen?
So yeah I definitely agree with M-A-V. His "extremism" is just a scare word for logical consistency.
Geez, I should know better than to pose a question touching on religion vs science, then go away to work. 
Very interesting thread. Putting aside arguments about the pros and cons of atheism and god for a moment, I think people may be reading too much into the lyrics.
I never took the "war of a god and man" to be any kind of heavy-handed "the pope knows better than Stephen Hawking" thing.
I always read it as a cautionary tale of society not being prepared for the inevitable social repercussions of this particular scientific advance.
Which is a legitimate theme for a song to have — agree with the message or not — and relatively ambitious for a first-time writer.
But I'm coming from the bias of this touching on topics I am quite interested in, yet only casually informed on, and not at all passionate about.
(And I was always pretty skeptical about Nicko's claims of being born-again anyway)
Very interesting thread. Putting aside arguments about the pros and cons of atheism and god for a moment, I think people may be reading too much into the lyrics.
I never took the "war of a god and man" to be any kind of heavy-handed "the pope knows better than Stephen Hawking" thing.
I always read it as a cautionary tale of society not being prepared for the inevitable social repercussions of this particular scientific advance.
Which is a legitimate theme for a song to have — agree with the message or not — and relatively ambitious for a first-time writer.
But I'm coming from the bias of this touching on topics I am quite interested in, yet only casually informed on, and not at all passionate about.
(And I was always pretty skeptical about Nicko's claims of being born-again anyway
)
valacirca
Trooper
Deconstructing Eddie: My Iron Maiden Songs & Albums Countdown - Album #14
Album #14 - Fear of the Dark
I know that music is far from being a science, but allow me to crunch some numbers for a bit: Leading up to the release of this album, the previous eight records that Iron Maiden had released ran an average length of 45:24 and contained an average of nine tracks. Fear of the Dark on the other hand, is 13 minutes and three tracks over that average. Especially considering that their prior effort left a lot of fans scratching their noggins, that’s a rather risky thing to do and a significant amount of extra space to take up on an official release.
On No Prayer for the Dying, the band seemed to have this bullish resolve to maintain the steady hard rock style that they wanted to produce. There was a thread that bound the songs musically. Unfortunately, that was the same thread that nearly strangled the album to death; and when it received mixed reactions, they seemed to reconsider that resolve a bit. What eventually came out of the Fear of the Dark recording sessions was this mixed bag of songs that was varied enough to keep the record interesting, yet not too diverse to the point of making the collection feel disjointed.
There are few extended tracks with a progressive sound indicative of the style that the band would continue to refine and pursue. There’s a grungy ballad and a couple of fast-paced ditties that actually work well as opposed to several others that sound too much like scraps from the last album. The rest are middling fillers that aren’t too shabby but hardly remarkable as well. Everything considered, one could easily argue that the songs on FotD are simply not up to par with the band’s output from the previous decade. However, there are a few gems on this record that make it slightly more fascinating than the previous effort and a step in the right direction.
Going back to what I said at the start, the biggest culprit that really drags down Fear of the Dark is its length. Sure, the consistency and quality of songs is far from what the band put out in its prime; but an any rate, it has the standout tracks and musical assortment that make it a bit memorable. So the only thing that really could have been helped is to give it a sense of brevity that might lessen its tendency to feel drawn out. If we remove three songs that are widely considered to be among the weakest on the album ("Chains of Misery", "From Here to Eternity" and "Weekend Warrior"), that would leave it 13 minutes leaner and in my opinion very much improved. At it stands though, it's at least an improvement over the last album.
Album #14 - Fear of the Dark
I know that music is far from being a science, but allow me to crunch some numbers for a bit: Leading up to the release of this album, the previous eight records that Iron Maiden had released ran an average length of 45:24 and contained an average of nine tracks. Fear of the Dark on the other hand, is 13 minutes and three tracks over that average. Especially considering that their prior effort left a lot of fans scratching their noggins, that’s a rather risky thing to do and a significant amount of extra space to take up on an official release.
On No Prayer for the Dying, the band seemed to have this bullish resolve to maintain the steady hard rock style that they wanted to produce. There was a thread that bound the songs musically. Unfortunately, that was the same thread that nearly strangled the album to death; and when it received mixed reactions, they seemed to reconsider that resolve a bit. What eventually came out of the Fear of the Dark recording sessions was this mixed bag of songs that was varied enough to keep the record interesting, yet not too diverse to the point of making the collection feel disjointed.
There are few extended tracks with a progressive sound indicative of the style that the band would continue to refine and pursue. There’s a grungy ballad and a couple of fast-paced ditties that actually work well as opposed to several others that sound too much like scraps from the last album. The rest are middling fillers that aren’t too shabby but hardly remarkable as well. Everything considered, one could easily argue that the songs on FotD are simply not up to par with the band’s output from the previous decade. However, there are a few gems on this record that make it slightly more fascinating than the previous effort and a step in the right direction.
Going back to what I said at the start, the biggest culprit that really drags down Fear of the Dark is its length. Sure, the consistency and quality of songs is far from what the band put out in its prime; but an any rate, it has the standout tracks and musical assortment that make it a bit memorable. So the only thing that really could have been helped is to give it a sense of brevity that might lessen its tendency to feel drawn out. If we remove three songs that are widely considered to be among the weakest on the album ("Chains of Misery", "From Here to Eternity" and "Weekend Warrior"), that would leave it 13 minutes leaner and in my opinion very much improved. At it stands though, it's at least an improvement over the last album.
Mega
Ancient Mariner
I agree completely about the legnth point, with a variation on the chosen songs.
This album could have been as good as Killers, if only the cut 4 songs from it:
FitK, CoM, The Apparition and WW.
Thinks about it:
1. Be Quick or Be Dead
2. From Here to Eternity
3. Afraid to Shoot Strangers
4. Childhood's End
6. Wasting Love
7. The Fugitive
8. Judas Be My Guide
9. Fear of the Dark
This makes The Fugitive the weakest song on the album, and it's not a bad song at all. The others are awesome songs. In fact, I think that every time I'll listen to the album from know on, I'll skip these 4 songs.
This album could have been as good as Killers, if only the cut 4 songs from it:
FitK, CoM, The Apparition and WW.
Thinks about it:
1. Be Quick or Be Dead
2. From Here to Eternity
3. Afraid to Shoot Strangers
4. Childhood's End
6. Wasting Love
7. The Fugitive
8. Judas Be My Guide
9. Fear of the Dark
This makes The Fugitive the weakest song on the album, and it's not a bad song at all. The others are awesome songs. In fact, I think that every time I'll listen to the album from know on, I'll skip these 4 songs.