...but Is It Art?

[!--quoteo(post=133460:date=Mar 30 2006, 09:54 PM:name=macunaima)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(macunaima @ Mar 30 2006, 09:54 PM) [snapback]133460[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
I don't think I was "talking for the sake of talking." Perun and I were discussing the nature of art. If you have nothing to contribute, perhaps you should refrain from wasting our time.
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I wonder who's wasting whose time? The nature of art, eh? ::

Ever since you arrived here, you've posted a pretentious load of bollocks (yes, it's the technical term for it [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\":P\" border=\"0\" alt=\"tongue.gif\" /] ). Your arguments don't stand close scrutiny and your discourse is both pedantic and hollow. Do you intend to conceal your mental incompetence by drowning it in big words and meaningless sentences? Good try here, mate, but it doesn't wash with me!









To Perun... sorry if I got too personal. Please don't moderate me! Please! Please! Please! [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/biggrin.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\":D\" border=\"0\" alt=\"biggrin.gif\" /]
 
[!--quoteo(post=133462:date=Mar 30 2006, 02:56 PM:name=Maverick)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Maverick @ Mar 30 2006, 02:56 PM) [snapback]133462[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
Yeah. We do wonder. ::
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Didn't Perun ask us not to let this get personal or that he would have to start doing some "serious moderating?"

I guess the rules don't apply to Maverick. I guess we know what kind of a person he is.
 
Guys, please get this back to a decent level. That means both of you, Mav and macunaima. Your personal disputes are best done with by either PMing or ignoring.
 
[!--quoteo(post=133466:date=Mar 30 2006, 10:08 PM:name=macunaima)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(macunaima @ Mar 30 2006, 10:08 PM) [snapback]133466[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
Didn't Perun ask us not to let this get personal or that he would have to start doing some "serious moderating?"

I guess the rules don't apply to Maverick. I guess we know what kind of a person he is.
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Just someone who doesn't like to be annoyed by pedantic... errr... backside orifices? ( [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/biggrin.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\":D\" border=\"0\" alt=\"biggrin.gif\" /] ) Why make life more complicated than it is already? ::
 
First of all, the rules to apply to Maverick. He has been punished in the past for being too much of a cockbite.

Secondly, I thought the naked woman sculpture was oddly beautiful. Yes, it was a celebrity, and I am glad they didn't show the backside view on the posted pictures, but I think it's got something to do with the simple beauty of the miracle of life.
 
excuse my ignorance, but what celebrity was it? I didn't recognize her, and I too found it "pretty" or whatever.
 
[!--quoteo(post=133486:date=Mar 30 2006, 04:14 PM:name=Onhell)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Onhell @ Mar 30 2006, 04:14 PM) [snapback]133486[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
excuse my ignorance, but what celebrity was it?...
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Britney Spears.
 
First of all, thank to Perun for switching this discussion to a new thread. We went off on a tangent and it did indeed belong in a new thread.

But I just wanted to tell Perun (and anyone else who may have found the discussion interesting) that I will no longer participate in the discussion. Maverick has dragged this discussion down to a level at which I refuse to participate any longer.

This is unfortunate, I think, because though Perun and I obviously disagree strongly about the issue, it seemed to me we were actually making some progress in terms of understanding what exactly the other person believes and why. I don't think we would've ended up agreeing, but I'd hoped that we might've ended up understanding the other's position. But I'm afraid Maverick's childish intrusion has put an end to any such possibility.

Let me just make one last point here. Maverick claimed I was wasting his (and presumably others') time by asking questions about the nature of art. There are two things he could've meant: (1) that I was wasting his time because I wasn't saying anything interesting or worthwhile about the nature of art, or (2) that I was wasting his time because *the nature of art* is a stupid, pseudo-intellectual topic.

Regarding (1): Maverick may actually be right. I certainly wasn't saying anything *new* about the nature of art -- others have said that sort of thing before me. Duchamp, for example. But is it *true* or *worthwhile*? Well, that is up for discussion. In fact, that is why we have these sorts of discussions. Someone throws out an idea and others agree or disagree and offer their reasons for doing so. This is what Perun did. He disagreed and he was trying to explain why. If Maverick hadn't intruded, it may have been a profitable discussion.

Regarding (2): there is a long tradition in western intellectual history of asking these sorts of questions: what is art? what is it good for? why do we produce art? etc. I suppose it is possible that this entire tradition is confused and misguided and that philosophers and art critics and historians are wasting their time asking meaningless questions. But I don't think that is very likely. In any case, Maverick certainly hasn't given us any reason to think that these are empty, pointless questions. Instead, he reacted like a typical anti-intellectual: he lashed out against someone who tried to raise questions he couldn't understand with personal insults and attacks. I'm not saying that Maverick is an anti-intellectual; but he certainly did act like one.

In any case, as I said above, I will not post in this thread again.
 
[!--quoteo(post=133477:date=Mar 30 2006, 11:39 PM:name=LooseCannon)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(LooseCannon @ Mar 30 2006, 11:39 PM) [snapback]133477[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
First of all, the rules to apply to Maverick. He has been punished in the past for being too much of a cockbite.[/quote]

I don't think that statement was necessary. I had already politely asked both people to calm down and make peace, explicitly including Mav.


I think it's sad that this discussion went this way. Art is a controversial topic, and it will always create at least two parties who heartily disagree with each other. My discussion with macunaima was certainly heated, but I don't think bad-natured.
I understand that macunaima got upset my Mav's comments. But that doesn't mean we can't carry on with the discussion. It is possible to lead a discussion with ignoring third-party posts. That's what differs a BB from a real world-conversation.

What am I even worrying about...
 
[!--quoteo(post=133446:date=Mar 30 2006, 08:59 PM:name=Perun)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Perun @ Mar 30 2006, 08:59 PM) [snapback]133446[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
My definition of art?

Expression. Something that speaks to me and makes me think. No, it doesn't have to be beautiful. Certainly not.

An urinal doesn't do that. I go to it daily and have a piss in it. Should I stand in front of it and think "what does it say to me? I take a leak, but is that all there is to it?"

::
[/quote]

maybe you dont understand urinals.
you cant listen to it because you dont consider it artistic

vengeance of urinals!
 
Awwww, I'm too late again, as usual :: [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/sad.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\":(\" border=\"0\" alt=\"sad.gif\" /]

To all intellectuals: having a visual artist in the family helps to read and understand this thread.
 
If I play my cards right , one day I'LL win the Turner prize....that'll show'em !

[img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\":P\" border=\"0\" alt=\"tongue.gif\" /]
 
Oscar Wilde said at the end of his introduction to "The Picture of Dorian Grey": "art is useless". Although I don't completely agree with this statement, it shows just how much you can simplify this topic.


Offtopic: is it me, or is Perun getting a bit too bossy and hyper-active as a mod? [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\":P\" border=\"0\" alt=\"tongue.gif\" /] (joke)
 
[!--quoteo(post=133644:date=Apr 1 2006, 05:41 AM:name=Child of the Grave)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Child of the Grave @ Apr 1 2006, 05:41 AM) [snapback]133644[/snapback][/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]Can't someone just agree with me for once?[/quote]Sorry but no. You forgot women...
 
ANYWAY! I found this on the TSO website and I thought it would be an interesting way to revive the topic.
[!--quoteo--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]
Once when asked what Trans-Siberian Orchestra was about, Paul O'Neill replied, "It's about creating great art. When asked to define what great art was, Paul said, "The purpose of art is to create an emotional response in the person that is exposed to that art. And there are three categories of art; bad art, good art and great art. Bad art will elicit no emotional response in the person that is exposed to it, i.e.; a song you hear in an elevator and it does nothing to you, a picture on a wall that gives you the same emotional response as if the wall had been blank, a movie that chews up time. Good art will make you feel an emotion that you have felt before; you see a picture of a forest and you remember the last time you went fishing with your dad, you hear a song about love and you remember the last time you were in love. Great art will make you feel an emotion you have never felt before; seeing the pieta, the world famous sculpture by

Michelangelo, can cause someone to feel the pain of losing a child even if they've never had one. And when you're trying for these emotions the easiest one to trigger is anger.

Anyone can do it. Go into the street, throw a rock at someone, you will make them angry. The emotions of love, empathy and laughter are much harder to trigger, but since they operate on a deeper level, they bring a much greater reward.
[/quote]
 
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