Burn the books!

[Anonymous]

My point is that this book is perhaps the most important one in the entire western world, and thus it should be read (with a critical mind) instead of being banned.

Oh, I see. Well, I agree. As I said, I'm generally opposed to censorship. All books should be read in stead of banned... or burned. The Bible should be read. But it depends on how it's read and how the teacher, if it's read in school, conveys the message. I think that other religious scriptures should be read as well. This is particularly important in an ever globalizing world. But they should be read with what IronDuke points out in mind - they're often series of lectures based on analogy.

 

[SinisterMinisterX]

...I can see no logical reason why any of these books would be banned (least of all Inferno; it depicts Hell, yes, but from the point of view of a Christian on a spiritual journey...do these people even bother to read the introductions?)...

Do you? Although I don't have a copy of the Inferno with me right now for reference, it includes (to the best of my recollection) the current pope, several recent popes and several prominent clergymen among the residents of hell. And by "current", I obviously mean the man who was pope at the time the book was written. Nor were these inclusions trivial; the popes and clergy were both given substantial space in the poem and accused of serious crimes. In other words, the book was sharply and graphically critical of what was, at that time, the most powerful institution in the world.

Have you read the Inferno? The depictions of hell and the punishments therein are extremely graphic, given the standards of literature at the time it was written. For example, flatterers get punished by standing up for eternity, in shit up to their chins. (And the original Italian version does use a vulgarity comparable to the English 'shit'; I'm not just paraphrasing here.) Read the book; it's quite disgusting at times. Though I don't agree, I do understand how cowardly Xians could want to ban it.

There is no good reason to ban many of the books on that list, but I can understand why some might have gotten banned. Not agree, but understand.

 

[Raven]

Do you? Although I don't have a copy of the Inferno with me right now for reference, it includes (to the best of my recollection) the current pope, several recent popes and several prominent clergymen among the residents of hell. And by "current", I obviously mean the man who was pope at the time the book was written. Nor were these
inclusions trivial; the popes and clergy were both given substantial space in the poem and accused of serious crimes. In other words, the book was sharply and graphically critical of what was, at that time, the most powerful institution in the world.

The 'current' Pope wasn't included in a list of Simonists (I believe), as he would not have been dead to be in Dante's vision of Hell; the last pope to die before Dante wrote the Inferno was (as far as I know) Boniface VIII, who was a well known simonist...Dante wasn't criticising the institution of the Church so much as the corruption of those who ran it.

Have you read the Inferno? The depictions of hell and the punishments therein are extremely graphic, given the standards of literature at the time it was written. For example, flatterers get punished by standing up for eternity, in shit up to their chins. (And the original Italian version does use a vulgarity comparable to the English 'shit'; I'm not just paraphrasing here.) Read the book; it's quite disgusting at times. Though I don't agree, I do understand how cowardly Xians could want to ban it.

There is no good reason to ban many of the books on that list, but I can understand why some might have gotten banned. Not agree, but understand.

Yes, I'm aware of the graphic nature of the punishments of sin, but is that anything different to the stories that have been told for many years?  Greek mythology tells that Kronos castrated his father with a scythe, and that the hunter Actaeon was turned into a stag by Artemis and torn apart by his own dogs.  The kind of horrifying imagery used in such literature as Ovid and Virgil has not posed a problem to the public, so I don't see how, if the Inferno was allowed to be circulated during the Middle Ages, it should be banned now by Christians-what you neglect to mention is that it was written by a devout Christian, and that is is a Christian allegory...something that these Christians should be encouraging people to read (on top of the fact that it is one of the finest epics in the history of literature), rather than banning it.

 

[SneakySneaky]

Raven you got yourself a praise    What you said is absolutely true.  That's what I say each time I have to argue about Harry Potter.  I always mention Greek mythology and of course they can't bloody answer lol

 

[Onhell]

I believe Dante did include people that were still living in his "hell" on purpose, such as political enemies that exiled him from... Florence I believe it was.

 

[Raven]

I believe Dante did include people that were still living in his "hell" on purpose, such as political enemies that exiled him from... Florence I believe it was.

It depends on when Dante set his poem.  He certainly wrote the substantial part of it around 1310 onwards (if my memory serves me right), but it is generally taken that the poem is set around the turn of the 14th Century ('In the middle of life's journey', or half of the Biblical 70 years allotted to men (i.e. 35)).  I apologise for an error in my previous post.  Boniface VIII was not present in Hell...the last pope to have died before Dante wrote Inferno was Nicholas III, who mistook Dante for Boniface VIII (well, he was plunged into a burning pit face first ).

Dante was exiled from Florence, but there are suprisingly few enemies of his from there, compared to the other denizens of hell.  For example, the father of one of his comrades in the use of the 'Sweet new style' (Guido Cavalcanti's father) is condemned to the circle of heresy-and Dante had no animosity towards him (again, if I recall correctly...there's so much context in Inferno, and the political scene in Italy c.1300 was such a clusterfuck, it's really difficult to remember).  The accusation of him sticking his enemies in Hell is often levelled against Dante, but he really doesn't give unfair exposure to them.  Anyway, maybe it's because Dante's friends were very nice people who didn't lock generals up with their sons in towers so they would have to resort to cannibalism....

However, I'm fairly certain that Dante did not put people who were still living when he wrote it into any part of the Divine Comedy.

 

[Onhell]

hmm I should check my notes, as for the midpoint of life or whatever, I thought Dante meant HIS life, in other words a mid-life crisis, sense he was having one at the time he wrote the poem.

 

[Raven]

hmm I should check my notes, as for the midpoint of life or whatever, I thought Dante meant HIS life, in other words a mid-life crisis, sense he was having one at the time he wrote the poem.

It's poetry (and more importantly, Dante)-the exact meaning of any individual line is open to interperetation.  However, given that Dante says 'Midway through our life's path', he is probably trying to give an rough guide as to when it is.  Dante was about 35 when he was ejected from Florence in 1301 (I believe), so 35 is half of 70, blah blah.  Given that most translators give a guide to this line along the lines of what I said, it seems to be the most probable.

As for the rest of Canto I, I still can't really get me head about the way he talks about setting off for the light at the top of the mountain with the 'foot that drives me ever the lower'.  Reading the notes for that expression, it seems that the translators are pretty confused as well!

 

[Cornfed Hick]

"irony" = a library banning Fahrenheit 451

Query for discussion: would it be okay for a library to ban (not sure quite what that means -- refuse to shelve?) Hitler's Mein Kampf?  I think not, as banning books is always bad and if you make on exception, slippery slope, etc.  Plus, there is the argument that it is very important to study Hitler so it doesn't happen again, and no scholar can write about Hitler without reading his own words.  So, personally I don't think it's even a close call.  Still, if one could ever make a case for banning a book as being "dangerous," this book might be a good test case.  Obviously, there is a line that cannot be crossed -- one would not expect a library to make kiddie porn available -- so I pose the question whether a book like Mein Kampf crosses it.   

 

[Onhell]

No it does not cross it, because one of the reasons Hitler rose to the power he did is because nobody read his book when it was free to be read. Just like the Movie Birth of a Nation. We weren't allowed to see it in highschool, because of the obvious racism, but it is INCREDIBLY important for film history and development. In that vein, Mein Kampf may be highly offensive, but historically it is very important.