The wealthiest and most powerful people on earth largely control the media. The media is meant to control the people. When the media is overwhelmingly selling the same thing from one side of the coin, it is wise to question them. Good for people for seeing through the lying media. The US media has lost all credibility years ago, now it is a laughingstock, unable to swing elections for 1 political party it is beholden to.
UK Politics
- Thread starter CriedWhenBrucieLeft
- Start date
Stupidity has reigned in the UK. Speechless about the HUGE support for the Tory party. How could they....
Because you, your leftist leaders and the chattering class call anyone who opposes your leftist orthodoxy 'stupid'. Keep doing it, keep losing.
Because the two are entirely unrelated.
The UK didn't join the EEC until 1973, by which point the UK economy was already in shambles. The UK economy collapsed through its own mismanagement and refusal to believe that the days of empire were over. The belief in the British worker being able to make the best stuff, or that people wanted to "buy British", turned out to be a sham. And it was through membership in the EEC and eventually the EU that prosperity eventually returned.
Did you know that from the formation of the EU until 2008 - period of 16 years - the UK did not experience a single quarter of negative growth? It wasn't until the subprime mortgage crisis hit that there was any period of depression, and that crisis was caused by deregulation of the financial markets both in the US and the UK. Conservative (small c) ideals, deregulate the market, let bankers rip off millions, and then get a government bailout when the whole thing blows up in your face.
You aren't staying in the EU. Good, that's what Britons apparently want. Leave it, and enjoy having to abide by EU rules anyway without having a seat at the table. The world no longer needs you. Enjoy being alone.
And years too late, Corbyn has seen the writing on the wall. Labour needs to figure out what it stands for and rebuild itself. The Blair coalition is dead and it's never coming back.
The Flash
Dennis Wilcock did 9/11
The election results aren't surprising. Jeremy Corbyn was an awful candidate full of empty populist promises and problematic support for controversial leaders and political groups. Labour shot themselves in the foot. Corbyn failed to appeal to the anti-EU sentiment due to his non-commitment on the issue, and also failed to appeal to those concerned about the economic ramifications of Brexit due to his inane economic policy proposals.
As a more general and non-Corbyn specific point, conservatives and far-right populist will continue to flourish as long as social democrats and social liberals continue to bury their heads in the sand about the issues brought upon by mass immigration. You are kidding yourself if you think concerns about the EU's stance on immigration and its impacts isn't one of the driving forces behind Brexit.
The economic arguments against Brexit fall on deaf ears precisely because of this. People are willing to risk it economically in order to gain decision-making independence from the EU especially with regard to the issue of immigration. They also see not having to contribute money to the EU's "save the failing economies of Southern Europe" campaign as a plus.
As a more general and non-Corbyn specific point, conservatives and far-right populist will continue to flourish as long as social democrats and social liberals continue to bury their heads in the sand about the issues brought upon by mass immigration. You are kidding yourself if you think concerns about the EU's stance on immigration and its impacts isn't one of the driving forces behind Brexit.
The economic arguments against Brexit fall on deaf ears precisely because of this. People are willing to risk it economically in order to gain decision-making independence from the EU especially with regard to the issue of immigration. They also see not having to contribute money to the EU's "save the failing economies of Southern Europe" campaign as a plus.
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Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Britain:
For (at least) the next five years. You (you = BJ party voters) do not get to complain about. Your hospitals. Your schools. Your buses and trains. That Brexit still isn't getting done or isn't working how you want it to. Another, unnecessary period of austerity. More crime born of poverty. The Government's lack of response to natural disasters or any other emergency that does not threaten large commercial interests.
I could go on. But be clear - you do not get to complain about any of those sorts of things - for at least five years.
By electing the Right in the way that you have, you no longer have the right to do so.
You've cast your ballot. Now sit down, shut up and take your medicine. I just hope that it doesn't make the rest of the world sick too.
For (at least) the next five years. You (you = BJ party voters) do not get to complain about. Your hospitals. Your schools. Your buses and trains. That Brexit still isn't getting done or isn't working how you want it to. Another, unnecessary period of austerity. More crime born of poverty. The Government's lack of response to natural disasters or any other emergency that does not threaten large commercial interests.
I could go on. But be clear - you do not get to complain about any of those sorts of things - for at least five years.
By electing the Right in the way that you have, you no longer have the right to do so.
You've cast your ballot. Now sit down, shut up and take your medicine. I just hope that it doesn't make the rest of the world sick too.
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Dr. Eddies Wingman
Brighter than thousand_suns
I see this election as just as much a referendum over the Brexit deal currently on the table, as anything else. I'm sure many regular Labour voters either stayed home or did the unthinkable and voted Tory just to "cut the Gordian knot" and avoid what could, had the result been another hung parliament, have become new twists on the Brexit stalemate and another election come May.
The Brexit question has become a tumor that invades or displaces other political questions. Saying yes to the Boris deal at least ends the current stalemate. Of course there are no guarantees that Britain wil gain from this in the long run.
As @LooseCannon has pointed out, Britain cannot pretend they're the great world power they were in the 19th century. They must find a feasible way today, and if they think this is by standing alone, I think they're mistaken, but I don't claim to have the economic insight to be certain in these matters.
I will refrain from commenting blatant fanboyism we see by a recent addition to the thread. Let him who hath understanding reckon which posts I refer to.
The Brexit question has become a tumor that invades or displaces other political questions. Saying yes to the Boris deal at least ends the current stalemate. Of course there are no guarantees that Britain wil gain from this in the long run.
As @LooseCannon has pointed out, Britain cannot pretend they're the great world power they were in the 19th century. They must find a feasible way today, and if they think this is by standing alone, I think they're mistaken, but I don't claim to have the economic insight to be certain in these matters.
I will refrain from commenting blatant fanboyism we see by a recent addition to the thread. Let him who hath understanding reckon which posts I refer to.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
@The Flash and anyone else who wants to dive into this: Why should a population, especially the poor and the people who need healthcare the most, be punished for Labour having a bad leader? Why punish them by voting for the Tories. I don't get it. And if it was a Brexit referendum (I feel the same @Dr. Eddies Wingman ) then I still can't believe that all these millions of people find leaving itself more important than the consequences of leaving.
I've often read this argument "Local politicians, Devolved government, National govt, EU government: too many."
But they seem to confuse internal UK bureaucracy and problems with EU law. All (or at least most of) the (recent) problems in the UK are done by 9 years of Tory rule. The UK was told EU has something to do with the problems, but were lied to. Blame the UK and the people who rule that show.
The EU takes and the EU gives. The give part is immensely censored in the UK by shitty media that a lot of people believe (I find that stupid!). You can't only profit from EU. So in a way it might be good that people who only want profit leave. However, the welfare will decrease. It is good to have EU rules saying people deserve a minimum of reasonable treatment. There are good rules.
Is Boris and the party and politics he stands for really the lesser of two evils? I strongly doubt it. Well, I'm not living there, but surely will follow the developments. Let's not forget about the video I posted. And we'll see how UK welfare will fare.
I've often read this argument "Local politicians, Devolved government, National govt, EU government: too many."
But they seem to confuse internal UK bureaucracy and problems with EU law. All (or at least most of) the (recent) problems in the UK are done by 9 years of Tory rule. The UK was told EU has something to do with the problems, but were lied to. Blame the UK and the people who rule that show.
The EU takes and the EU gives. The give part is immensely censored in the UK by shitty media that a lot of people believe (I find that stupid!). You can't only profit from EU. So in a way it might be good that people who only want profit leave. However, the welfare will decrease. It is good to have EU rules saying people deserve a minimum of reasonable treatment. There are good rules.
Is Boris and the party and politics he stands for really the lesser of two evils? I strongly doubt it. Well, I'm not living there, but surely will follow the developments. Let's not forget about the video I posted. And we'll see how UK welfare will fare.
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Dr. Eddies Wingman
Brighter than thousand_suns
I agree, but I think those who voted Tory this time who normally wouldn't did so because they saw the current situation (Brexit stalemate) as a third, and greater, evil. The situation has left both remainers and leavers frustrated.
Of course, it is a bad thing that one question - which had now materialized into three clear options, accept Boris deal, leave without deal or cancel Brexit - shall define the next five years on all other fronts of domestic UK politics through a general election. Personally I think it would've been much more correct, democracy-wise, to hold a second referendum on Brexit with those three options, and hold the election later, when the result of that referendum was clear.
Why? Because the Brexit stalemate has forced many Brits to vote against their own interest in many aspects of politics in order to - to repeat myself - cut the Gordian knot on that one aspect. When considering that both Labour and Conservative voters (and MPs!) are split with regards to the Brexit question, it becomes even clearer that a general election was not the best way to settle the Brexit question. Except for the fact that the election "worked", in the sense that now at least we know what will happen with Brexit.
Dr. Eddies Wingman
Brighter than thousand_suns
To be fair to them, it is important to get an answer to the Brexit question. It is not ideal for the UK, nor for the rest of Europe, having a situation like this where hard/soft/no Brexit all were on the table and noone knew for how long.
srfc
Ancient Mariner
Stone age voting system, Labour and the Lib Dems combined have about the same amount of votes as the Tories, but exactly 150 less seats.
Lib Dems have 2.5 million more votes than the SNP but 37 less seats. Plaid Cymru and Sinn Féin combined have the same amount of seats as the Lib Dems yet have 3.3 million less votes.
Lib Dems have 2.5 million more votes than the SNP but 37 less seats. Plaid Cymru and Sinn Féin combined have the same amount of seats as the Lib Dems yet have 3.3 million less votes.
The Flash
Dennis Wilcock did 9/11
Umm, no. More and less are comparative terms, many and few are descriptive ones.
Less is supposed to be used to refer to things that can't be counted one by one (water, for example), fewer is supposed to be used to refer to things that can be (seats, votes).
The_7th_one
Ancient Mariner
What will do Johnson if EU don't accept what he wants?