BLACK SABBATH DISCOGRAPHY RANKING GAME: #10 REVEALED

Never Say Die is definitely not good. It doesn’t deserve to be second-to-last place, but it’s certainly not much higher for me.
 
Well,
Mosh said:
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19: Never Say Die!
20: Forbidden

Total points: 73
Highest score: 20 (@Jeffmetal)
Lowest score: 2 (@Night Prowler @KidInTheDark666)

The placement of what was, until 2013, the last Sabbath album with Ozzy, came as a bit of a surprise to me. I know there is not a lot of love for this album, but the presence of songs like Shock Wave and the should-be FM staple title track immediately clears this album against at least three or four others, including one other with Ozzy on vocals. The album's low ranking also brings up some statistic oddities in this list, which I normally bring up in the first post but forgot about this time around so I'll bring them up now.

Never Say Die(!) is the lowest rated Ozzy album, but it sits in an interesting place as being one of only three Ozzy era albums that were ranked #1 on at least one list. Can you name the other two? This isn't to say that Ozzy's albums were ranked low, however. Only one Ozzy era Sabbath album finished last place on any list. Can you name it?

Only one album was ranked first place on one given list and last place on another, can you name that album (hint: it's not an Ozzy album)?

Despite the lack of last place rankings for Never Say Die, this album came close to coming in last. Without JeffMetal's shock #1 placement, this album only scores 13 points more than Forbidden. The album did have a few more defenders, but nothing close to the top spot. With that in mind, this may have been the highest ranked 2nd to last place album we've had, considering nobody ranked it dead last. It was a weird enough score that I had to triple check to make sure I programmed the spreadsheet correctly, but in the end it seems like a product of these lists really being all over the place. There are a few pet favorites on the forum, but after a certain point the point spread is pretty high and I guess while Never Say Die is one of the few albums to have a #1 rating, the other albums performed better on average. I will say though that the jump from this album to the next is not as large as Forbidden to Never Say Die was.

I feel this album is slightly underrated on this list, but it is not a hill I'm going to die on as I also consider it a low point in the discography, just not the 2nd lowest point. @Jeffmetal?
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Well, I don't know what to say, but, that I've always loved this album. The band is playing great, Ozzy's singing is amazing and it is varied (the only thing this album lacks is a doomy tune). Loved that Guns and Metallica played 3 classics from it, past Saturday.
 
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17: Cross Purposes (tie)
17: Thirteen (tie)
18: Never Say Die!
19: Forbidden

Total points: 78

Thirteen highest score: 13 (@Night Prowler) (lol)
Thirteen lowest score: 2 (@Jeffmetal @The_7th_one)

Cross Purposes highest score: 12 (@KidInTheDark666)
Cross Purposes lowest score: 1 (@Jeffmetal)

Our only tie of the game. The row ranking of Cross Purposes didn't surprise me that much, but I was a bit surprised to see 13 down here. This is a super fascinating album to me. Sabbath had been on and off with Ozzy basically my entire time as a Metal fan growing up and it seems like this album more or less doesn't happen while Dio is alive (keep in mind that Dio's late period album with Sabbath is still in the mix). I can only imagine the pressure on these guys to produce something that would live up to the hype when they hadn't recorded an album together in over 30 years. With that in mind, what this album gets right is astounding. The MVP, as usual, is Iommi. The riffing is straight out of that 70s Sabbath style. Geezer Butler, having not really contributed lyrics actively in the post-Ozzy era more or less delivers a convincing facsimile of the doomy 70s material he wrote.

But in the end, a facsimile is all this is. I think they did a good job capturing one aspect of Sabbath, which is that early doomy sound. But I feel like 70s Sabbath was more than that. I always felt like having songs like Planet Caravan, Changes, proggier pieces like Spiral Architect or Looking For Today made them unpredictable and that each album saw them evolving and experimenting with different sounds. On this album, you can pretty much pinpoint every old school Sabbath song that they're trying to copy which makes the whole thing feel kinda inauthentic. I also feel like 70s Sabbath was such a product of the Vietnam and Cold War era and it doesn't feel like they've allowed themselves to be influenced by the complexities of the 21st century, which makes it all feel less vital. Also, and this is a big one, this version of Sabbath hits way different without Bill Ward on drums.

I think this album gets a lot right, certainly enough for this to sit more in the middle tier of the discography. Regardless of the success level on this album, I think they more or less captured the vibe of the first few Sabbath albums and produced pretty much what you would expect from them at this stage. It's very much a "they understood the assignment" kind of album. With that in mind, I really don't see how this rates below Technical Ecstasy, Born Again, and Seventh Star. Three albums that seem to lack a clear creative direction.

The low ranking of Cross Purposes is a pretty major rejection of the Martin era. Obviously there are a few albums still to go, but to have two out of five in the lower Sabbath tier is pretty rough. But, then again, it's also kinda wild that the other two low ranking albums are from the Ozzy era. In general, I've always felt like the Martin era albums were mostly competently produced and written, but they lack any clear identity like what Ozzy and Dio's respective eras had. Say what you will about those last two Ozzy albums, but at least you could say they were evolving, the Martin era feels more like a band in stasis. On the other hand, you'd be hard pressed to find a band at Sabbath's caliber in the 90s making straight Metal records without any sort of gimmick or dated production approach.

When I listen to Cross Purposes, I don't hate anything on it but nothing also sticks out that grabs my attention. It all feels very generic and without the energy of the same band from 10 years ago.
 
I agree with everything you said about 13. I rank it pretty low on the list, but still a couple places higher than this standing. The whole affair just feels completely hollow. Sure, there’s some good riffs and even a couple catchy vocal parts here and there, but it just feels like Black Sabbath Cliff Notes. The absence of Bill Ward makes it even sillier.

Cross Purposes is ranked correctly.
 
13 is a solid album that has some good moments alongside a lot of bloat. It shouldn’t be this low but it shouldn’t be much higher either.

Cross Purposes doesn’t hit anything out of the park but almost every song is good and there are some great ones as well. Tony Martin’s vocals mostly make the album for me but having Geezer back alongside Iommi is super cool too. Super underrated and does not deserve to be ranked under the turd that is Technical Ecstasy and the dogshit that is Born Again. What the fuck.
 
I am mostly fine with 13 being where it is. I tend to rank some of the weirder Sabbath albums a little bit better than most, but 13 is too often a parody, a shell of what made Sabbath great. I expect what ended up happening was most people found it to be a low end album, but most of the ones ranked higher have at least one defender.
 
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I definitely think 13 should rank higher than Born Again or the truly terrible Technical Ecstasy, but I assume these are both next up on the list.
 
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16: Seventh Star
17: Cross Purposes (tie)
17: Thirteen (tie)
18: Never Say Die!
19: Forbidden

Total points: 87

Thirteen highest score: 11 (@The_7th_one)
Thirteen lowest score: 1 (@JudasMyGuide, @Confeos)

I recognize I sound like a broken record at this point, but this is another instance of an album that is ranked below several weaker ones, to the point that I am actually somewhat shocked at a couple albums we haven't seen yet. Compared to Thirteen though, I probably have less things to defend Seventh Star for. I've always felt that Glenn Hughes was not the right choice for Sabbath. He brings too much of a gruff 80s blues rock sound to the band. I can see the logic behind the decision, given Ian Gillan's involvement on the last album and a similar vocal style, but a lot of these songs are mid Deep Purple ripoffs and the album as a whole really lacks the Metal edge that most Sabbath albums with Ozzy, Dio, and even Tony Martin have. This album has a few good songs and some great shreddy guitar licks from Iommi, but in general Hughes is black licorice for me and that makes this album a tough one for me, not to mention the organ driven Purple-y riffs and bluesier sound that just makes this album a big meh. It's actually probably appropriate ranked, it's just that there are two worse albums that we haven't seen yet and I would probably take Thirteen and Never Say Die over this as well.
 
Yeah, this is another case of a "meh" album that has still been ranked too low. Born Again and Technical Ecstasy are certainly worse for me.

I don't have much to say about Seventh Star. Glenn Hughes is not a fit. There's some decent material here and I like Glenn, but the two things just don't work together.
 
Shitting hell, I knew I should've made a list.

Seventh Star ought to be top 10 minimum - Hughes' vocals are pristine, the bluesier riffing on the title track and Heart Like a Wheel is an interesting alternate take on the blues Sabbath sound, and the faster tracks are great AOR with a grimy twist. I don't even hate No Stranger to Love.

Regarding the "Iommi solo album" cliche - my view is that Iommi's riffs make the Sabbath sound, so anything he writes and plays is gonna sound like Sabbath by default. This also applies to the two Iommi/Hughes albums.
 
I rank it very low as a result. There's some okay moments but yeah, not my favourite. Maybe second or third last.
 
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