Barack Obama awarded the Nobel peace prize

[jmpoet]

You still miss my point, I'm talking about reactions to what he does manage to achieve, not reactions to the award, if he fails to achieve what people expect, people will be disappointed, he's being built up as if he is going to solve some rather large problems and rather than people hoping he achieves them, they are expecting him to now.

Well, no, I didn't miss the point, but I simply would never be able to tell you how much or what people expect, and anyway, that many are perennially disappointed, no matter what happens, is a given.

I don't know that people expect him to do more because of that award.  A lot of people expect him to fail.  They're hoping for it.  They are the bottom dark ass end of this country, and they don't realize they are being used for their reactionary, knee-jerk simplicity, and are being lied to by conservative talk show hosts.

But I myself just don't care what other people expect, believe me.  Obama's a smart guy, but not a perfect one.  Although this award, in an off-handed way, has just described his life's work, really, not just a few months of pressure.  It's certainly not about the Presidency.  To me, it's what he will be able to accomplish on the world stage, during and after the Presidency, and expectations should be based on the reality of the situations in which we find ourselves, all of which seem pretty grim. 

Most people barely understand the real issues and machinations that go on in all levels of government in every country in the world.  (Present company excepted; people here seem pretty cool, educated, and engaged with the world out there.) But a lot of people don't read enough to understand the complications, impossibilities, history, power struggles, and maneuvering that go in to making even the simplest meeting a logistical nightmare for a leader of state.  And yet of course these are the same people with the highest expectations for results on their desk in the morning.  And, yes, I know, these yahoos vote, too.  And they vote their expectations, but then they refuse to get involved in the issues at hand, so every four years they throw in their two cents worth and then wonder why the government gets nothing accomplished.  Let's hear it for democracy.  We should be glad for the stability that comes with refusing to be a flexible, progressive state. Humph.

Whatever he ends up achieving, there will be a thousand loose strings of attempts.  I believe he will try to go for what people truly expect -- nothing too pie in the sky:  cooperation, dialogue, compromise, an open door policy.  Could he fail?  Sure, and people are going to say I told you so when Ahmadinajad, or whomever, tells him to fuck off.  But he'll keep trying to keep everyone on board with a vision for global cooperation, and he is sincere in this.  Maybe people will be a little shallow in their expectations, after all.

Whether he disappoints some will be a matter of politics, anyway, just as is so much else today.  People stick to their party line (and to the lobbyists who sign the checks for their campaign contributions; hint: Max Baucus and so many other Congressional sucker heads with their hands out and their ethics buried under a steaming pile of corporate manure).  Obama has disapointed me, I can tell you, by failing to illegalize lobbying.  He's disappointed the gays and the this and the that.  The list goes on. 

You're thinking expectations will be raised too high -- i say we have not demanded enough from any of the politicians we elected-- those with awards for presuming to change the atmosphere of America's presence in the world, which was pretty darn dark and brooding up until November '08 when it lit up like a Xmas tree, and those who won't ever get an award for anything because they are morons. 

We should demand much more from all of them, even the morons.  I mean sure, we might be disappointed, but it is also a consequence that one of such high promise as Obama must also be expected to deliver the biggest results, award or no award.  He may not succeed, especially not right away.  That will disappoint everyone in a hurry for results.  He may even do his best work like Carter, After the White House.

Everyone should realize that Obama's New Global Initiative for Peace Cooperation and More Golf Outings will take time, so maybe there won't be any room for real disappointment or let downs, knowing that what's taken hundreds of years to put wrong, will not be righted by Obama tomorrow.  They'll have to take stock in about fifty years.

 

[Ardius]

Well, no, I didn't miss the point, but I simply would never be able to tell you how much or what people expect, and anyway, that many are perennially disappointed, no matter what happens, is a given.

I wasn't expecting an answer, I was merely making a point. You decided to focus on my referring to the award becoming somewhat worthless, which was only a part of my main argument.

I agree, some want to see him fall, but then they aren't the people who will be disappointed. I also agree not everyone will be expecting so much, but we're talking about awards commitees giving him awards for relatively small achievements here. Not to mention the many, many people pinning their hopes on one person just because he's different. Its more about the press and the general public's pressure on him, the average person may or may not expect much of him, however with more and more people raving about him, building him up, its going to change if it hasn't already.
I only agree to an extent about pressuring politicians. On the one hand, yes, its good for them not get lazy about their job. On the other hand its difficult for any human being to work to his full potential or to meet expectations under immense pressure, only certain tasks are helped with pressure, somehow I don't think it will help tackling delicate and complicated issues like Afghanistan and Iraq. Maybe if he had to work to a deadline, like sorting out the financial state of the country for example. But sorting a peaceful end to both wars is going to take time and a cool head, not intense public pressure and instant results.

I think more and more people would prefer both wars to be sorted out as soon as possible (not that people wanted hositilies to continue longer, but they've had enough of what appears to be a botched mission). With prizes like this being awarded out and the amount of publicity surrounding it, I fear people will become more and more expectant of Obama to bring a swift end and hence pressure him into doing so where it might not be prudent.
I don't want Obama to disappoint and I don't want the wars to go on and on, such public pressure potentially jeopradizes what he might achieve.

 

[Forostar]

I don't know that people expect him to do more because of that award.  A lot of people expect him to fail.  They're hoping for it.  They are the bottom dark ass end of this country, and they don't realize they are being used for their reactionary, knee-jerk simplicity, and are being lied to by conservative talk show hosts.

 

Love that sharp edge (you're not afraid to criticize huge groups in the USA), combined with such spirit and this point of view. I have the idea you really know what you're talking about. Actually, I think that your contributions on this forum are going to be good for the balance. Excellent.

 

[Genghis Khan]

I'd say let everybody speak for themselves. I expected something from Obama before he got this award. Hell, I expected something from Obama before he was elected. I have no reasons to complain since he has taken the office. I am a big Obama supporter, I admire his world diplomacy. No reason to bugger about this.

You may wonder if people who don't like his doings in (e.g.) healthcare (which have nothing to do with this award!) are in his camp....  It's possible that they project this award on anything they don't like about him, and therefore have a colored view on this issue. My 2 cents.

Or we can just take it straight from Obama's mouth and say that he hasn't yet done anything to warrant this award.  SNL is having a field day with this award as a by the way.

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I think more and more people would prefer both wars to be sorted out as soon as possible (not that people wanted hositilies to continue longer, but they've had enough of what appears to be a botched mission). With prizes like this being awarded out and the amount of publicity surrounding it, I fear people will become more and more expectant of Obama to bring a swift end and hence pressure him into doing so where it might not be prudent.
I don't want Obama to disappoint and I don't want the wars to go on and on, such public pressure potentially jeopradizes what he might achieve.

Speaking of the Afghan war, which is relative here, the latest word is that Obama is not planning on increasing or decreasing the amount of troops.  However, this is preliminary; he'll have to have a more serious talk with Afghan mission General S. McChrystal.

 

[jmpoet]

I agree, some want to see him fall, but then they aren't the people who will be disappointed.

Well put.  They'll be the ones cheering and doing their usual jeering.  And yeah, the people with the laundry lists of expectations are already beginning to make their voices heard.  I think back to the end of the campaign and the feeling on election night and think, well, this is the morning after, now we've got to get back to reality.  It's gonna be an interesting ride though, seeing what he'll be able to pull off.

True though that immense pressure on any job is not going to be conducive to good results.  But I get so disappointed with those in Congress (You've got a majority!  What are you waiting for?!) and I think Americans are too liable to sit back and not say much or enough about an issue.  But they still do expect, and you're right, they still expect a lot and they may get let down that Obama cannot deliver on everything.

I think many may be already disappointed that we are not out of Iraq and many others were dismayed that troops would be increased in Afghanistan.  So yeah definitely this is something Obama does feel a lot of pressure about already and I some people are voicing doubt about that mission.  I know I do, although it's slightly off topic.  I wish we could find a way out of there soon.

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Love that sharp edge (you're not afraid to criticize huge groups in the USA), combined with such spirit and this point of view. I have the idea you really know what you're talking about. Actually, I think that your contributions on this forum are going to be good for the balance. Excellent.

Thanks Forostar!  I don't know if I know what I'm talking about!  But I'm glad Ardius didn't mind the long posts    This site is really cool, the topics and the level of the discussions are pretty far-ranging and intelligent.

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Or we can just take it straight from Obama's mouth and say that he hasn't yet done anything to warrant this award.  SNL is having a field day with this award as a by the way.

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Speaking of the Afghan war, which is relative here, the latest word is that Obama is not planning on increasing or decreasing the amount of troops.  However, this is preliminary; he'll have to have a more serious talk with Afghan mission General S. McChrystal.

I've read that about SNL but have not seen the shows.  I wonder if they were funny skits or what?  But yeah, Obama did seem embarrassed in his speech last week.  He surely projected humility and a little bit of "Aw, Christ."

I've read today that Biden also is changing his idea on the Afghan war and that he is not so pro troop increase as he was. I'll have to read more on that, but it seems that there are voices in the Administration beginning to make some noise about our continued presence there and I'm glad for that.  At least the debate seems to be out there. There may be light at the end of that tunnel.

A little off topic - did you ever read about McChrystal?  His name sounds fluffy but here's a guy who was head of a top secret Special Forces program, the exstence of which has only just been acknowledged, eats one meal a day (so as not to slow himself down) and runs who knows how many miles and does I don't know how many pushups and chin ups.  And he's like six foot six or smething.  Even the article about him was intimidating.

 

[Ardius]

Thanks Forostar!  I don't know if I know what I'm talking about!    But I'm glad Ardius didn't mind the long posts    This site is really cool, the topics and the level of the discussions are pretty far-ranging and intelligent.

Its good to have an intelligent, non-argumentive discussion for a change  Long posts are fine if they are made with some good grammar - so no problem!