Afghanistan

Re: More NATO forces needed for south Afghanistan

I don't really get you Deano. Check your own posts of February 11th and my previous post, where I tried to show that I have the impression that you constantly change your views.

Now again I'm surprised, when you say this:

"This would serve many purposes; it would get everyone off of each others backs, it would ensure that there is a military and humanitarian presence throughout the entire country at all times and it would eliminate the bickering about who is or is not doing their fair share."

It's like: When you are there (or recently have been there) you're positive, when you're not there you're negative... please explain:

Do you want foreign people to help entire Afghanistan or not ?!

Thanks in advance, much appreciated!
 
Re: More NATO forces needed for south Afghanistan

Forostar, perhaps I am a little vague in posts on this subject. I should probably better classify what is objective and what is subjective material. Please keep in mind as well that there is much I cannot discuss on this or any other board for that matter.

My overall impression of the situation there has been a gradually more positive outlook for the country. It has come a long way over the years. Having been there several times and met many terrific people there, I have a personal wish for their well being in the future.

I understand what you mean however, in one post I will say how difficult it will be to bring the country together as a whole and in another I will try to shine a positive outlook on that possibility. This is merely my own thoughts on strategies that I think could work in achieving these goals. I, however, am so far down the totem pole that my opinions will never be entertained or even heard by strategists and policy makers.

To try and clarify further, the nation of Afghanistan is not going to go away. Since this is the case, I think it is important for all citizens of the country to be able to reap benefit from the status of being part of the country if desired, but also be able to carry on local customs and traditions without being told they have to conform or live a certain way. That is my wish in not having Western ideals thrust upon them when it is not wanted; yet if local tribes do for some reason need the help of a federal government that it will be strong enough to be there when required.

NATO will never be able to cover the entire territory of this nation, and in no means did I wish to imply that there should be an American, Frenchman, Brit or German sitting in every village. When I talk about an area of responsibility I mean that, on a rotating basis, certain nations will be in a position somewhere within that territory to combat possible insurgencies and also be there to provide aid and guidance if called upon.

Hope this clears things up a bit for you Forostar, as I said, I cannot speak as frankly as possible in this respect but I do try and get my opinions and observations across as clearly as possible.
 
Re: More NATO forces needed for south Afghanistan

Thanks for the attempt! It's a bit clearer, and I hope you understand why I get confused when you say A in post A and B in post B.

I wish you goodluck overthere!
 
Re: More NATO forces needed for south Afghanistan

Thank you. I really haven't had bad experiences over there thankfully (except for some of the worst colds I have ever come down with). I just feel that I can provide a unique but unfortunately, limited perspective to this particular thread. Believe me; it is hard to keep my thoughts straight on this subject when I constantly have to censor what I have to say. I just figured you guys might enjoy a first hand account of what it is really like over there since there is clear interest in the subject. The difficulty in even discussing it properly I think reflects the difficult and unique situation that is being faced over there.
 
Re: More NATO forces needed for south Afghanistan

France poised to offer allies 'gift' of 1,000 extra soldiers

Mar 23, 2008 04:30 AM / Mitch Potter Europe Bureau

LONDON–A fresh infusion of French forces in Afghanistan appears imminent – but their zone of operation may be far from southern Kandahar province, where Canadian troops are in dire need of reinforcement.

Instead, French military planners are eyeing a scenario that would see some 1,000 soldiers assume operations in eastern Afghanistan, thereby freeing up an equal number of U.S. troops to meet Canada's needs in the south.

Diplomatic sources in Paris said yesterday President Nicolas Sarkozy has not made a final decision on the size and destination of the additional deployment to Afghanistan, despite a weekend report in a London newspaper, The Times, indicating France will attend next week's crucial NATO summit in Romania bearing a "gift" of "slightly more than 1,000 troops."

Ottawa has aggressively lobbied France as its best hope in the search for a NATO partner willing to share the burden in volatile Kandahar, where the extension of Canada's 2,500-strong mission to 2011 is contingent upon allies providing a minimum of 1,000 extra troops and other equipment, including unmanned surveillance drones and transport helicopters.

French officials have reciprocated with a series of overt hints suggesting that, directly or indirectly, Sarkozy intends to furnish an answer to the Canadian dilemma.

"It is becoming clearer that for logistic reasons, French army planners prefer to go to the eastern region, where they would take over the role of American soldiers along the border with Pakistan," a highly placed French official told the Toronto Star yesterday.

"This would enable the Americans to provide Canada with the help it needs in Kandahar. And it would allow the French to maintain better logistics because the new deployment would be closer to the (1,500) French soldiers already stationed in Kabul, rather than scattered across the country."

Sarkozy will brief British Prime Minister Gordon Brown on plans during a state visit to Britain this week, The Times said. NATO heads of government will meet in Bucharest, Romania, April 2-4.
 
Re: More NATO forces needed for south Afghanistan

We'd rather have Americans than French, British, or anyone else (except for Germans, possibly) down in the South.  No offense to the other nations, but the Americans have the best gear and best support, if not always the best soldiers.  The British forces in S. Afghanistan have proven dreadful at combating the Taliban - their troops are light mobile forces, rather good at striking at the flanks of modern mechanized forces but not so good at taking on a concentrated insurgency.  Their vehicles don't give much protection against IEDs either.  More than once the PPCLI, the RCR, or the VanDoos have taken a town at heavy cost only for the British to give it back without a fight a week later.
 
Re: More NATO forces needed for south Afghanistan

I wonder if this is a battalion of French Foreign Legion soldiers that are being offered......

if not always the best soldiers.
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This may confuse some but in the US the word "soldier" refers to the Army. No comment there. If, however, your Canadian brothers are augmented with US Marines, they will be very happy......
 
Re: More NATO forces needed for south Afghanistan

Don't know, I wouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth so easily. We'll see how they will do. Perhaps they will have comments on the Canadians as well. I'm sure you two would appreciate that *ahum*.
 
Re: More NATO forces needed for south Afghanistan

Safe is a relative term. There are US Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, and Marines serving in many different regions of the country with varying degrees of "safeness". I can't say from where, when or even if this will happen; I just know that US Marines are regarded as the best. For very good reasons, I can assure you.
 
Re: More NATO forces needed for south Afghanistan

Disrespect towards soldiers, sent by their governments, before they have even arrived sure gives me a positive idea about your troop. Maybe some of their mouths are bigger than their strength.

About the Americans, they're sure good fighters, but that's not enough. Iraq has proven that Afghanistan does not only need jarheads. They also need intelligent and wise professionals, and good communication and collaboration with the local people. The Americans have the worst name and get the least faith when it comes to dealing with the Afghans.
 
Re: More NATO forces needed for south Afghanistan

Forostar said:
Disrespect towards soldiers, sent by their governments, before they have even arrived sure gives me a positive idea about your troop. Maybe some of their mouths are bigger than their strength.

About the Americans, they're sure good fighters, but that's not enough. Iraq has proven that Afghanistan does not only need jarheads. They also need intelligent and wise professionals, and good communication and collaboration with the local people. The Americans have the worst name and get the least faith when it comes to dealing with the Afghans.
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What disrespect?  And to completely disagree - South Afghanistan still needs fighting done.  The time is not for reconstruction, not yet.  Yes, you need to work with the locals to get ready for that phase, and Americans are not always the best at that, but to be frank, that's why its a NATO force and not a US force.  It's coming, but right now you need to work on removing the Taliban.  The Brits and French as deployed do not have the appropriate force in place to get that task done.  Fighting over villages four, five times because a light cavalry force can't hold it does nothing for the coalition in Afghan eyes.

And yes, a thousand Marines would be awesome.  Marines are one of the best reg forces in the world.  Though I wouldn't turn down a thousand Dogfaces, either.
 
Re: More NATO forces needed for south Afghanistan

LooseCannon said:
We'd rather have Americans than French, British, or anyone else (except for Germans, possibly) down in the South.
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French and Spanish foreign legionnaires are among the grimmest warriors in the world, so I'd think they are fit for fighting there. And LC, I wouldn't prefer Germans to anyone else, if I were you. There's a big difference between German military capabilities of 1939 and now. It is common knowledge that the Dutch are better equipped than the Germans, for instance.
 
Re: More NATO forces needed for south Afghanistan

Some more clarity from someone who knows:

What the international media feeds you isn't always exactly the way it is. I know everyone on this forum is intelligent enough to realize that, so enough said there.

Here in America, I can still walk into almost ANY bar, and if people know I am in the military, they will offer to buy me drinks all night. The majority of the (non-selectively polled) public still supports the military just fine. Many Americans do not agree with how these wars have played out but they still support the troops. Hippy, uneducated, misinformed cowards shit on us and believe me, that doesn't happen as much as portrayed. It has never happened to me.

I've said this before but will again: US Marines are historically viewed as numb skull brutes with no capacity other than to kill. In the past, this very well has been proven. Now, however, I would venture to say that with the exception of the US Air Force, the most educated, well spoken and intelligent service in the country is the US Marines. Yes, we can still kill but we go far beyond that. You can take your information from what you hear on TV or straight from the horse’s mouth, it's up to you. I take no offence at how I am viewed in the international eye. I hate it, but I take no offence to it. I have met so many people from other countries that do give me the benefit of the doubt and that I have formed good relationships with that I don't pay much attention to the rest. I keep an open mind to others around the world, from any nation; it is good to know that there are others out there that would do the same and don't take the easy route of bashing Americans right now just because it's the "in" thing to do.
 
Re: More NATO forces needed for south Afghanistan

Some more clarity from someone who reads this topic:

Deano said:
I take no offence at how I am viewed in the international eye. I hate it, but I take no offence to it.
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That's OK, I wasn't planning to change my opinion yet. Still I think much more of the Americans than you think about upcoming support from another country.

Deano said:
I have met so many people from other countries that do give me the benefit of the doubt and that I have formed good relationships with that I don't pay much attention to the rest. I keep an open mind to others around the world, from any nation; it is good to know that there are others out there that would do the same and don't take the easy route of bashing Americans right now just because it's the "in" thing to do.
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I'm not bashing for the sake of fun. Your remarks and LC's first remark, after he heard about the French, simply led to my comments. I see those remarks as disrespectful towards the help that is coming. Don't measure the value of something that you have received for free (and definitely not in such an early stage), is merely what I meant to say, but apparently your and LC's focus stays on how we (must) think about the Americans.

My point is: This is an allied, international business, not an American or a Canadian one only, and speaking out like you two guys did won't make things better. I said some not very nice things myself about the Americans, but that was done after I have read, heard and seen about them, not before.
 
Re: More NATO forces needed for south Afghanistan

All I ask is that you do not allow yourself to form prejudges because of a few unfortunate encounters with people of other nationalities. Are a large number of Americans dickheads? Sure. There are dickheads of every nationality; but if we formed all of our opinions based on these idiots we surely wouldn't be participating in an international forum now. I just find it unfortunate and frankly I am hurt by the international opinion of my country right now. There are so many good people here that it is truly a shame that this is the case. On the other hand, do I understand how things have gotten this way? You bet.

To elaborate on the previous post; I DO know that US Marines in Kandahar would make a huge difference, but I also wondered about the possibility of the French Foreign Legion being sent there. This is a very strong fighting force and I think would do very well there or anywhere else they are sent. I do not quite understand France's stance with employing so many other nationalities within one of their most elite fighting forces but that is not for me to pass judgment on. If it works for them, then more power to them. I have praised and welcome any nations help in this struggle.
 
Re: More NATO forces needed for south Afghanistan

I didn't even think of the Foreign Legions.  For that, I apologize.
 
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