A Matter of Ice and Earth

Which of their two latest albums do you like the most ?

  • Framing Armageddon: Something Wicked Part 1

    Votes: 7 70.0%
  • The Crucible of Man: Something Wicked Part 2

    Votes: 3 30.0%

  • Total voters
    10
Space Station said:
Which is your fav IE ?

Dunno, the only one I ever used for a longer amount of time was IE5. It was OK, I guess, much better than the current one which takes about half a minute to even load Google. But in general, I've always preferred Netscape/Firefox.
 
I like Firefox, too.  I think if people actually *use* IE they should be shot.

However, I've always had a weakness for Opera.  Safari's OK too.  But FF is by far the best.
 
For good, I've stopped to use IE since one week after one friend's advice

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Forostar said:
Click

Right now: Night of the Stormrider on 1 and Burnt Offerings on two. The rest the same as in that post.

I see........ We should create a separate thread for this though
 
Let's have a pro-Barlow and a pro-Ripper brigade and watch them fight.
 
Forostar said:
This is so easy. Part two contains the breathtaking "Crown of the Fallen"  & "The Dimension Gauntlet".

Apart from that, part one has a lot of little skip fillers.   

You're kidding, right?
 
And you might be kidding with your analysis of pt. 2 which imo hardly does justice to a very well balanced album? It's all just a matter of taste and death, let's not get too shocked about it. ;)

I will take back the word fillers, but I still like to skip tracks on pt. 1. Here:

Tracks on pt. 1 that I find good/very good:
2, 6, 7, 8, 10, 12, 14, 15, 17  - which leaves 10 (!) not/less good tracks

Tracks on pt. 2 that I find good/very good:
3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14 - which leaves 4 not/less good tracks.

See what I mean? This is why I value pt. 2 as an album which listens better as a whole.
 
I just cannot believe that of all the tracks on part 2, you chose Crown of the Fallen and the Dimension Gauntlet, two songs that are absolutely devoid of melody or feel.

Some of the songs on part 2 are just so wholeheartedly mediocre.  I feel like Schaffer just wanted to get rid of them.  The first 6 or so songs just plod and plod... they all feel the same, except for "A Gift or a Curse".  None of the songs actually go anyway.  Just when they hit upon a good vibe, they switch because 5 of the first 7 songs are under 3:30.

There are only 2 solos on part 2, and hardly any effective bridges.  The songs go nowhere.  They all follow the same pattern that was established on "Burning Times": intro riff, first verse, back to intro riff, second verse, chorus.  Except instead of going to a solo or some sort of climax, there's another 15 seconds of some random riff before it goes back into the final chorus.

I mean, it pisses me off that Gettysburg has no solos.  But Gettysburg has amazing melody, great emotional moments, a fantastic feeling of flow, rise, anticipation, climax, and then a smooth transition.  There's no change in mood for most of Crucible of Man.  5 or 6 solos could've made it a much better album.
 
GuineaPig said:
I just cannot believe that of all the tracks on part 2, you chose Crown of the Fallen and the Dimension Gauntlet, two songs that are absolutely devoid of melody or feel.

The Dimension Gauntlet is very Maidenish and very melodic, harmonic and powerful at the same time and if not mistaken it features a cool Schaffer speech. From all these part-1-and-2-songs this kind of stuff fits best to my taste.

For the rest: Ingredients like speed or length are not per se quality ingredients to me. Is a long song special just because of its length? It has to be good in my ears, and shouldn't drag on too much. Apparently Schaffer agrees with that. He may have realized that some of these little gems shouldn't be much longer, because he knew he would repeat himself too much.

And I like fast songs. There are still some fast songs on it, and if I want to hear more fast songs I put on part 1 or rather, an older album (on which I find the level of the fast songs 3 times as high anyway).

Every album can have its own quality. TXF is a different Maiden album from Killers. I can play any album when I want. They don't need to have the same amount of long or fast songs.

About the solos: Yes, I also am fond of solos. It might have given both albums more variation, but for me part 2 has enough spirit to survive without changes to the songs, in which I recognize the quality.

And no change of mood in most of Crucible Man? Maybe when you skip all those calm songs?
 
I think Schaffer has gotten really bad at writing slow/calm songs during/after Horror Show.  Old slow songs, like "A Question of Heaven", were brilliant and emotional, never getting boring or un-atmospheric.  But nowadays, the slow songs or slow parts of songs are generally boring and lifeless (let me stress this, IN MY OPINION). 

On Horror Show, Dracula's slow intro is brilliant, but "Ghost of Freedom" is rather repetitive, though not hopeless. 

On The Glorious Burden is "When the Eagle Cries", which I will not speak of more, and "Hollow Man", which might be ok with Matt, but is rather un-emotional with Ripper.

On Framing Armageddon is "The Clouding", which is three minutes too long, and also not very good for Ripper.  Matt does it better on the single.  Ripper is a great singer, I think, but these slow songs just don't fit him.  Slightly the same problem on "A Charge to Keep", though Ripper nails the chorus while Barlow slaughters it.

On The Crucible of Man are also several boring songs, notably "Harbinger of Fate" (the slow parts) and especially "A Gift or a Curse".  I find very little emotion in these tracks, despite Barlow singing them.  But the last track, "Come What May", makes up for all the boringness of the previous songs.  Getting Barlow back was worth it, if only for this song.  It seems custom-written for Barlow, except the last chorus, which is very Ripper-ish with the very high singing on top of the chorus. 

That being said, I still prefer Something Wicked Part 1, as there are more stand-out songs on that album for me.  Setian Massacre, Ten Thousand Strong, Something Wicked Pt 1, A Charge to Keep, Infiltrate and Assimilate, Order of the Rose, Retribution through the Ages (that is the most badass name ever), Framing Armageddon, and When Stars Collide (repetitive, but I like it).  On Part 2 there are The Revealing, Crown of the Fallen & The Dimension Gauntlet  (I consider these two one song), I Walk Alone, Divide Devour, and Come What May, and even all of those are not that memorable.  A lot of them are also rather short, and feel under-developed and unfinished, as if Schaffer had a good idea but didn't take it to the end.

And anyway, Part 2 relies much more on Barlow than Part 1 on Ripper.  The songs themselves, regardless of singer, are better on Part 1.
 
For the heck of it, I'll just list my favourite tracks from those albums.

Setian Massacre
A Charge To Keep
Ten Thousand Strong
Order Of The Rose
The Clouding (brilliant song in my opinion, the finale always sends a shiver down my spine)
Retribution Through The Ages (beautiful vocal melody in the chorus, although the rest ist kind of bland)
-
A Gift Or A Curse (simply beautiful)
I Walk Alone
Harbinger Of Fate
Divide And Devour (is it just me or does the chorus have a strong Blind Guardian-ish feel to it?)
Come What May -- my favourite of these, I think. Just brilliant.

BTW, many people complain about how bland and predictable Crucible Of Man is, but I found it amazingly varied in its style. And although there are few guitar solos on both records, those that are there are simply great. It looks like Troy Seele is a really great guitarist.
 
Alright. Opinions and tastes are sacred. But this is so amazing, that I really can't resist to post this. You guys won't like me for it, but amazement is something that has to come out at times.

I am reacting because everyone of you lists Setian Massacre as a favourite. Do I have a wrong booklet or CD-case or something? Do you guys have a special extended version with great bridges and melodies?

It's this song isn't it?

I find it the most emotionless, monotone & repetitive piece of crap Iced Earth song I have e-ver heard.
The tone is con-stant-ly the same!

The song goes like this:

Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam.


crap chorus

2 solos

Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam. Paaam pam. Pam pam pam.

crap repetitive chorus

solo

:nuts2:

I bet the solo parts were very needed and saved it from being kicked off the album.
 
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