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Rob77 said:
So someone who is racist likes working with foreigners. That is a glaring non sequiter and one of the weakest arguments I have heard in a very long time. Why on earth would someone who disliked foreigners choose to work with foreigners if they could just as easily work with people of the same nationality when he is paying their wages?
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Dude. You are crashing out. You're getting hysterical. Look at how unhinged your posting behavior is. Take a deep breath and read everything, from the beginning, with a clear mind. Then think about what you want to respond, formulate it, and hit reply.

Pardon the pendantry, but I believe it's warranted given the subject matter: It's non sequitur ;)

And no, you can't say "nuh uh" as a defense of your faulty argument and handwave criticisms away. Racists work with foreigners all the goddamn time. Have you never interacted with a Trump supporter for example? Or someone voting Reform?
Also, as I mentioned: Steve has literally made racist remarks about people of colour. In print. So, once again: Your arguments are weak and don't hold up to scrutiny. No need to lash out, think of better arguments instead.

But hey, no one's expecting the pro-Brexit side to be able to form a coherent argument.

Also, lest you still haven't noticed: The majority here has outright stated that they don't think Bruce is racist or xenophobic, so stop shadowboxing with strawmen. There's grass in dire need of touching.
 
Vaenyr said:
Dude. You are crashing out. You're getting hysterical. Look at how unhinged your posting behavior is. Take a deep breath and read everything, from the beginning, with a clear mind. Then think about what you want to respond, formulate it, and hit reply.

Pardon the pendantry, but I believe it's warranted given the subject matter: It's non sequitur ;)

And no, you can't say "nuh uh" as a defense of your faulty argument and handwave criticisms away. Racists work with foreigners all the goddamn time. Have you never interacted with a Trump supporter for example? Or someone voting Reform?
Also, as I mentioned: Steve has literally made racist remarks about people of colour. In print. So, once again: Your arguments are weak and don't hold up to scrutiny. No need to lash out, think of better arguments instead.

But hey, no one's expecting the pro-Brexit side to be able to form a coherent argument.

Also, lest you still haven't noticed: The majority here has outright stated that they don't think Bruce is racist or xenophobic, so stop shadowboxing with strawmen. There's grass in dire need of touching.
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Ok lets look at your strawman trump supporter. Lets say hes a racist and dislikes mexicans for the sake of argument.

Lets say he has his own business. Now i will accredit you with one scenario where he may chose to employ mexicans at a slave rate to exploit cheap labour. That is a situation where the strawman racist would chuckle and exploit people he didnt like. You could argue that is akin to slavery in a modern sense.

But a racist with a business where he could hire non foreigners for the same rate as foreigners? Why would they if it insulted their racist sensibilities so much? Again maybe if there was a much cheaper non union rate perhaps? Again they might be pleased to exploit people they hated but choosing to pay them full whack?

The trump supporter is then to say the least confused. If a racist doesnt like being around foreigners but then choses to be around foreigners that is an odd way to behave.

And you think you have won the argument? Ok.....
 
Rob77 said:
Ok lets look at your strawman trump supporter. Lets say hes a racist and dislikes mexicans for the sake of argument.

Lets say he has his own business. Now i will accredit you with one scenario where he may chose to employ mexicans at a slave rate to exploit cheap labour. That is a situation where the strawman racist would chuckle and exploit people he didnt like. You could argue that is akin to slavery in a modern sense.

But a racist with a business where he could hire non foreigners for the same rate as foreigners? Why would they if it insulted their racist sensibilities so much? Again maybe if there was a much cheaper non union rate perhaps? Again they might be pleased to exploit people they hated but choosing to pay them full whack?

The trump supporter is then to say the least confused. If a racist doesnt like being around foreigners but then choses to be around foreigners that is an odd way to behave.

And you think you have won the argument? Ok.....
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My Trump supporter example isn't a strawman. It's something that's happening all the time. Everywhere on the world. Racists work with foreign people all the time. Furthermore, one person being racist doesn't mean they are equally racist to every single ethnicity or race out there.

Racists and bigots are not know for being particularly intellectually gifted, educated or coherent in their worldviews. That's why me, and others here, have directly responded to you and mentioned the good old "you're one of the good ones" or the "I have a black friend" argument. Just because they tolerate or are friends with one individual, doesn't mean that they don't hold racist beliefs about the collective.

And because you keep ignoring factual information: Steve Harris has made racist remarks against people of colour in an interview that was printed. Yet we also know that he's worked with people of mixed heritage and so on. By your logic this shouldn't be possible.

Racism and bigotry most often stem from ignorance and fear of the unknown. Read up on Daryl Davis:
en.wikipedia.org

Daryl Davis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

He actively befriended members of the KKK and managed to tear them away from their white supremacist views.

You also need to read up on cognitive dissonance in racists, which is by no means a new topic:
 
It is honestly morbidly hilarious how whenever someone criticizes Bruce for his Brexit vote or Leana for her far right views, there are always people coming out of the woodwork to debate. Without fail lol

It's not really about defending Bruce's views and decisions. They simply feel attacked when they see how the rest of us think of them, and rush to defend Bruce. To defend their own views by proxy. In Germany we have the phrase "Getroffene Hunde bellen": Dogs that got hit bark.
 
Rob77 said:
Lets say he has his own business. Now i will accredit you with one scenario where he may chose to employ mexicans at a slave rate to exploit cheap labour. That is a situation where the strawman racist would chuckle and exploit people he didnt like. You could argue that is akin to slavery in a modern sense.

But a racist with a business where he could hire non foreigners for the same rate as foreigners? Why would they if it insulted their racist sensibilities so much? Again maybe if there was a much cheaper non union rate perhaps? Again they might be pleased to exploit people they hated but choosing to pay them full whack?

The trump supporter is then to say the least confused. If a racist doesnt like being around foreigners but then choses to be around foreigners that is an odd way to behave.

And you think you have won the argument? Ok.....
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And finally, to illustrate this simple point: H. P. Lovecraft.

The man is known for having been a massive xenophobe. He was a raging antisemite among other things.
Yet, despite that, he married a Jewish lady. Once again: No one says Bruce is a xenophobe, but saying "he worked with foreigners" is simply a weak defense that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
 
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Vaenyr said:
My Trump supporter example isn't a strawman. It's something that's happening all the time. Everywhere on the world. Racists work with foreign people all the time. Furthermore, one person being racist doesn't mean they are equally racist to every single ethnicity or race out there.

Racists and bigots are not know for being particularly intellectually gifted, educated or coherent in their worldviews. That's why me, and others here, have directly responded to you and mentioned the good old "you're one of the good ones" or the "I have a black friend" argument. Just because they tolerate or are friends with one individual, doesn't mean that they don't hold racist beliefs about the collective.

And because you keep ignoring factual information: Steve Harris has made racist remarks against people of colour in an interview that was printed. Yet we also know that he's worked with people of mixed heritage and so on. By your logic this shouldn't be possible.

Racism and bigotry most often stem from ignorance and fear of the unknown. Read up on Daryl Davis:
en.wikipedia.org

Daryl Davis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

He actively befriended members of the KKK and managed to tear them away from their white supremacist views.

You also need to read up on cognitive dissonance in racists, which is by no means a new topic:
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But the strawman you have used to try and justify your argument having one token mexican acquaintance is not remotely comparable to bruces situation. The racist who chooses to surround himself exclusively with people he hates despite having the option of employing people at the same rate of the same ethnicity is a very different scenario and one which you havent managed to address very sucessfully.

Someone of your intellectual sophistication and insight should surely manage to sweep away my feeble attempts to compete with you without breaking sweat?

Oh and congrats on the virtue signalling as well. I can agree with you that bigotry of any description is a perverse and repellent form of view to take. We can concur on that topic at least.
 
Vaenyr said:
Ok lets look at your strawman trump supporter. Lets say hes a racist and dislikes mexicans for the sake of argument.

And finally, to illustrate this simple point: H. P. Lovecraft.

The man is known for having been a massive xenophobe. He was a raging antisemite among other things.
Yet, despite that, he married a Jewish lady. Once again: No one says Bruce is a xenophobe, but saying "he worked with foreigners" is simply a weak defense that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
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Again a total failure to address a simple point.

The racist who didnt have to work with foreigners but chose to anyway is an odd way for a racist to behave. Why work with people you hate if you dont have to? Masochism perchance?
 
Yax said:
2. But him working with foreigners is not necessarily a convincing argument against it. What we've seen historically, and do to this day when it comes to prejudice, homophobia, transphobia, racism and so on, is that one can (choose) to accept an individual, but not the group. Like "you're not bad for a gay person", or "for a *insert nationality*, you're alright".
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Rob77 said:
Again a total failure to address a simple point.

The racist who didnt have to work with foreigners but chose to anyway is an odd way for a racist to behave. Why work with people you hate if you dont have to? Masochism perchance?
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We live, in the UK at least, in a multicultural society. The vast majority of racists don't get the "luxury" of choosing who they work with.

There are also degrees of racism. It's one thing to hold sympathetic views to right wing racist ideology, it's another thing altogether to say I'm never working with a foreigner.

But all of this is away from the point.

Bruce Dickinson doesn't strike me as a racist. He strikes me as a pretty traditional white English pensioner who constantly has a microphone stuck to his gob while always trying his hardest to say controversial and provocative things.

And onstage in the heat of the moment, with all the adrenaline I can more or less see an argument where the Greek cunt thing can happen.

But Bruce also has a recent history of saying, doing and supporting things that make people uncomfortable, and it often leaves him looking a bit of a twat.

His wife's history posting is a different thing altogether and for me is inexcusable.

That doesn't make Bruce a racist but it does leave him open to questions of hypocrisy when he does his "Blood Brothers" bit.
 
I have always wondered if it isn't also a bit odd that Leana apparently was never asked not to share such views publicly.
It is totally normal to have to accept a few restrictions when you are associated with a celebrity, a politician, or someone like that.
 
MaryPelon said:
I have always wondered if it isn't also a bit odd that Leana apparently was never asked not to share such views publicly.
It is totally normal to have to accept a few restrictions when you are associated with a celebrity, a politician, or someone like that.
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People who trawl through the social media accounts of Maiden members' partners are quite weird in my opinion. Maiden are known for not seeking the spotlight or to be public figures, I don't care about their politics, their religion or any of their other persuasions insofar as they are separate from their musical output, much less the views of their wives and girlfriends.
 
Rob77 said:
Again a total failure to address a simple point.

The racist who didnt have to work with foreigners but chose to anyway is an odd way for a racist to behave. Why work with people you hate if you dont have to? Masochism perchance?
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Why are consevatives always so goddamn dense...

Dude, I addressed your points so I'll repeat it:

H.P. Lovecraft was a massive antisemite yet he was married to a Jewish woman. Your arguments are childishly naive and don't hold up to scrutiny. You had a bad take, it's okay. Stop derailing the thread because you're butthurt that people criticize your views by proxy. Take the L, move on and stop doubling down.

Also, LOL at "virtue signaling.
 
I think the fans have started looking at Leana’s views because she got involved in the dispute with Roy Z, and the fans want to know why Roy Z is no longer Bruce’s partner.

There are always reasons why this can happen and normally management or a political campaign’s headquarters takes appropriate action.
 
Vaenyr said:
Why are consevatives always so goddamn dense...

Dude, I addressed your points so I'll repeat it:

H.P. Lovecraft was a massive antisemite yet he was married to a Jewish woman. Your arguments are childishly naive and don't hold up to scrutiny. You had a bad take, it's okay. Stop derailing the thread because you're butthurt that people criticize your views by proxy. Take the L, move on and stop doubling down.

Also, LOL at "virtue signaling.
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A pathetic attempt conceal a failure to answer a very simple point. You have lost the argument and try and shift the topic and think by repeating yourself that people wont notice that you dont have a leg to stand on.

Yeah mate the sophistication and cogency of your argument really shines through in every point you make.

If you are the best the left has to offer i dont think you will like the outcome of the next general election....
 
Rob77 said:
A pathetic attempt conceal a failure to answer a very simple point. You have lost the argument and try and shift the topic and think by repeating yourself that people wont notice that you dont have a leg to stand on.

Yeah mate the sophistication and cogency of your argument really shines through in every point you make.

If you are the best the left has to offer i dont think you will like the outcome of the next general election....
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Your claim is that a racist would not surround himself with foreigners. That claim is objectively wrong and one prominent counter example is enough to show that: H.P. Lovecraft.

Now go touch some goddamn grass and let us all move on from this idiocy. You've derailed the thread enough already.
 
Rob77 said:
A pathetic attempt conceal a failure to answer a very simple point. You have lost the argument and try and shift the topic and think by repeating yourself that people wont notice that you dont have a leg to stand on.

Yeah mate the sophistication and cogency of your argument really shines through in every point you make.

If you are the best the left has to offer i dont think you will like the outcome of the next general election....
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Meanwhile you keep defending your point by arguing with someone who NEVER called Bruce a racist.
I mean, there's stupid and then there's stupid...
 
Aggelos said:
Meanwhile you keep defending your point by arguing with someone who NEVER called Bruce a racist.
I mean, there's stupid and then there's stupid...
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Vaenyr said:
Your claim is that a racist would not surround himself with foreigners. That claim is objectively wrong and one prominent counter example is enough to show that: H.P. Lovecraft.

Now go touch some goddamn grass and let us all move on from this idiocy. You've derailed the thread enough already.
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Again a total failure to address a simple point which i will repeat.

A racist surrounds himself with people he hates despite the fact he can afford to surround himself with people he likes and you consider this typical racist behaviour?

And it is objectively proved by Lovecraft- so one guy married a Jewish woman having been an antio semite- who knows what his motivation was (kink, self hate, fetish whatever)

and this somehow means a racist who hates mexicans would choose to surround himself with mexicans just for the hell of it?

Well you've convinced me.....
Aggelos said:
Meanwhile you keep defending your point by arguing with someone who NEVER called Bruce a racist.
I mean, there's stupid and then there's stupid...
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Its tagteam communism!

Are you the same person or just agreeing with yourself?
 
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