RUN FOR YOUR LIVES 2025 Tour Thread *SPOILERS INSIDE*

Eddie's Uncle said:
PS: whenever Ghost fans are confronted with "accusations" of the band being gimmicky, sellouts, not Metal or whatever, they almost never counter with any arguments, but almost always switch to infuriated spasms of "elitist!!!", "Gatekeeper", "hater" etc., basically not even rebutting the accusations, but only being upset.
Must have hit a spot then. Truth hurts.

The ironic thing is: when I say Ghost are gimmicky and not Metal, it doesn't necessarily mean that I don't like them or think they suck.
I like some pop music, I like some theatrics.
I love GWAR, who are pure gimmick. Ghosts "Square Hammer" is a brilliant (Pop) song.
Saying Ghost ain't Metal is just the same as saying Ghost ain't Jazz.
But the fanbase seems to have lots of problems with that..
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Saying Ghost IS a gimmick that play shit music concocted for playlist-idiots full of earworms is elitist and dismissive. Sayin they have gimmicks isn't. Saying they aren't metal isn't elitist either because it's true; they are genre transcending with pop, disco, metal etc influences in a Rock overcoat. Lamenting them for not being Metal (and suggesting they because of that are an inferior shit band), is however elitist.
 
Yax said:
play shit music concocted for playlist-idiots full of earworms
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Yax said:
Lamenting them for not being Metal (and suggesting they because of that are an inferior shit band)
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Maybe I missed it but I don't really feel like anyone is making these accusations.

In all honesty, my thing with the Ghost vs Maiden comparisons is that the two bands are trying to do different things. Ghost has always relied on a visual stage show/costuming gimmick that undoubtedly drives a lot of the massive audiences they've accumulated over the years - I really don't understand how anyone could believe that they would've reached the same heights playing the type of music they do without an extra something. Nothing wrong with that, but I genuinely feel that the music is a secondary reason for their popularity. I've heard every Ghost album btw and like a lot of what they've done.

The thing about the Ghost gimmick though is that it is such a draw that they have to go bigger with each tour to keep audiences coming back. I agree that they have become a great live band and fantastic performers on stage, but they have visual expectations they have to keep up with. IMO Maiden's approach to staging is based on completely different motivations. Specifically, I think the logic behind the screens is largely that since the band (especially Bruce) are physically slowing down, Maiden needs a stage show that is more visually augmented to compensate. Again, nothing wrong with it, but I think this is the reality for where these guys are at in age. So while i'm not going to argue with you if you think Ghost's stage show is better, I also think it's worth considering why Maiden has the type of stage show they have and why Ghost has the type of stage show they have by comparison.

Someone mentioned Chappell Roan, similar situation here. She's one person on stage which can only be so entertaining for 3 hours or however long her concerts are. There has to be some sort of visual stimulation to keep audiences engaged. Maiden still has 6 guys on stage. They might be moving slower, but there's still enough going on that the stage show doesn't need to dwarf what they are doing.
 
Iron Lurker said:
After RFYL in 2026 hopefully we get a new album tour or something really different. Bruce had an idea to do a scaled down, smaller show for hardcore fans. It would be cool to see a show primarily of rarely/never played songs. I would name that tour "Eddie's Oddities". Doubtful they would do something like that but I would be all for it.
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When Bruce mentioned smaller venues shows/concerts? Any links? In Ljubljana we have one great smaller venue, called Križanke, standing capacity 3.500, Maiden would fit there perfectly for that kind of show. Maybe they can play 2 shows, not just one. Maybe they can do tour at that kind of venues, 2 or maybe 3 shows in each city. They could use only their backline and few background drapes, no screens, small support, just few of band's roadies (plus local crew), band monitoring and FOTH mixmans. PA and light would be provided by local organizers of that kind of shows. That kind of tour would be very cheap for band, ticket prices too, maybe 85 €.
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This whole debate about “gimmicks” is pointless. KISS was entirely about gimmick. Ghost has an enormous gimmick. But so what? Unlike KISS (for the most part), Tobias actually knows how to write great songs—and surrounds himself with people who can. Anyone denying that Skeleta is great must be deaf, ha!

A gimmick is just stage theatrics: an immersive tool that creates awe, wonder, a sense of cult, whatever. We could even argue that Bruce dialed up his own theatrics after looking at Ghost. Either way, theatrics enhance a performance in my view. Personally, I like Fear of the Dark with the “lantern and moon.” Sure, Bruce’s theatrics compared to Ghost’s are like toddlers’—his cape in ROTAM, for example—but that’s just a creative choice and the band’s vision.

Tobias has had the advantage of looking back at the music scene of the ’70s–’90s and distilling, cramming, and crafting everything he liked into his vision of Ghost (and yes, he keeps the business side in mind, which is clever). And on top of that, he writes catchy tunes. That’s not even debatable. Case closed.

And to be clear, I don’t even call myself a proper Ghost fan. I’m more of a “nodding to their side” type. I think I’m already too old to be a full-fledged maniacal fan. But I see what they’re doing, and when they do it well, I applaud them. I don’t drool over Tobias’ pope masks or anything—that part was already nailed by KISS.
 
Azas said:
This whole debate about “gimmicks” is pointless. KISS was entirely about gimmick. Ghost has an enormous gimmick. But so what? Unlike KISS (for the most part), Tobias actually knows how to write great songs—and surrounds himself with people who can. Anyone denying that Skeleta is great must be deaf, ha!

A gimmick is just stage theatrics: an immersive tool that creates awe, wonder, a sense of cult, whatever. We could even argue that Bruce dialed up his own theatrics after looking at Ghost. Either way, theatrics enhance a performance in my view. Personally, I like Fear of the Dark with the “lantern and moon.” Sure, Bruce’s theatrics compared to Ghost’s are like toddlers’—his cape in ROTAM, for example—but that’s just a creative choice and the band’s vision.

Tobias has had the advantage of looking back at the music scene of the ’70s–’90s and distilling, cramming, and crafting everything he liked into his vision of Ghost (and yes, he keeps the business side in mind, which is clever). And on top of that, he writes catchy tunes. That’s not even debatable. Case closed.

And to be clear, I don’t even call myself a proper Ghost fan. I’m more of a “nodding to their side” type. I think I’m already too old to be a full-fledged maniacal fan. But I see what they’re doing, and when they do it well, I applaud them. I don’t drool over Tobias’ pope masks or anything—that part was already nailed by KISS.
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Kiss and Ghost gimmicks? You elitist.
 
Yax

Post in thread 'RUN FOR YOUR LIVES 2025 Tour Thread *SPOILERS INSIDE*'

Belshazzar said:
find twatty bands like Ghost repugnant, cheesy rubbish that cater to the simple, straightforward, non-album oriented Spotify randomised artist playlist consuming kids who just want to nod their heads to an earworm. So what?
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You missed the important context. They are my opinions, not stated as fact.

Quote the full post, don't cherry pick:

"It's not elitism. It's an opinion and taste, two things that differ in every person.

To me KISS are no more a serious band than The Darkness or bloody Spinal Tap. They're a joke designed to sell comic books, lunch boxes and action figures.

Opinions don't have to converge. Everyone has them, and they often differ. I find twatty bands like Ghost repugnant, cheesy rubbish that cater to the simple, straightforward, non-album oriented Spotify randomised artist playlist consuming kids who just want to nod their heads to an earworm. So what?"
 
Belshazzar said:
You missed the important context. They are my opinions, not stated as fact.

Quote the full post, don't cherry pick:

"It's not elitism. It's an opinion and taste, two things that differ in every person.

To me KISS are no more a serious band than The Darkness or bloody Spinal Tap. They're a joke designed to sell comic books, lunch boxes and action figures.

Opinions don't have to converge. Everyone has them, and they often differ. I find twatty bands like Ghost repugnant, cheesy rubbish that cater to the simple, straightforward, non-album oriented Spotify randomised artist playlist consuming kids who just want to nod their heads to an earworm. So what?"
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Elitism isn't facts though. Elitism is opinions, but with the type of superiority and disdain you displayed. Calling a band simply being a gimmick (not having gimmicks, which is facts) is elitist.
 
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Diplomat said:
When Bruce mentioned smaller venues shows/concerts? Any links? In Ljubljana we have one great smaller venue, called Križanke, standing capacity 3.500, Maiden would fit there perfectly for that kind of show. Maybe they can play 2 shows, not just one. Maybe they can do tour at that kind of venues, 2 or maybe 3 shows in each city. They could use only their backline and few background drapes, no screens, small suport, just few of band's roadies (plus local crew), band monitoring and FOTH mixmans. PA and light would be provided by local organizers of that kind of shows. That kind of tour would be very cheap for band, ticket prices too, maybe 85 €.
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I would love to see Maiden in a venue that size.

Well done for trying to get back to discussing Iron Maiden again by the way, :lol:
 
Prowler said:
It's pretty much some of the best music out there. I don't know the exact definition of dad rock. Maiden is dad rock, if Alice and BOC are.
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Let's ask AI!

ME: Is Iron Maiden "dad rock"?

GEMINI: While the term "dad rock" can be a bit of a moving target, it's generally used to describe classic rock bands with broad, mainstream appeal, like The Eagles or Creedence Clearwater Revival. Bands often labeled as such are easy to listen to and are a common fixture on classic rock radio.

Iron Maiden, however, is a foundational heavy metal band. Their music is known for being more complex and aggressive, with intricate song structures, galloping basslines, and twin-guitar harmonies. Their sound is part of a dedicated subculture and is not typically what you'd hear on a mainstream classic rock station.

Unlike bands like Creed and Nickelback, which have been humorously and sometimes seriously labeled as "dad rock" due to their immense popularity in the late '90s and early '00s, or even the consistently popular Foo Fighters, Iron Maiden's place is firmly in the heavy metal genre. While a dad might be a huge fan of Iron Maiden, the band itself is not categorized as "dad rock" in the conventional sense of the term.
 
Eddie's Uncle said:
Saying Ghost ain't Metal is just the same as saying Ghost ain't Jazz.
But the fanbase seems to have lots of problems with that..
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They have many metal songs though and many other that have a lot of metal elements. (Mummy Dust, From the Pinnacle to the Pit, Year Zero, Con Clavi Con Dio, Elizabeth). They had pop elements right from the start also. I don't know why people thought they changed that much.
jazz from hell said:
Let's ask AI!

ME: Is Iron Maiden "dad rock"?

GEMINI: While the term "dad rock" can be a bit of a moving target, it's generally used to describe classic rock bands with broad, mainstream appeal, like The Eagles or Creedence Clearwater Revival. Bands often labeled as such are easy to listen to and are a common fixture on classic rock radio.
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So Alice and BOC aren't either. That was my point.
 
Eddie's Uncle said:
PS: whenever Ghost fans are confronted with "accusations" of the band being gimmicky, sellouts, not Metal or whatever, they almost never counter with any arguments, but almost always switch to infuriated spasms of "elitist!!!", "Gatekeeper", "hater" etc., basically not even rebutting the accusations, but only being upset.
Must have hit a spot then. Truth hurts.
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Calling someone out for being elitist or a gatekeeper is a valid criticism. I'm not a fan of Ghost. I've maybe heard three of their songs to this day (despite seeing them open for Maiden in 2013 and hating them lol) and one of those was their cover of Phantom of the Opera. Despite that, I believe reducing them to being a "gimmick band" is in fact elitist.

The visual presentation of them is obviously a big part of their appeal. Is it gimmicky? Sure, in the same sense that Maiden's theatrics and the entire existence of Eddie is gimmicky as well. The walking and big Eddies during concerts are a gimmick. An entertaining one, but a gimmick none the less. Truth is visuals have always played a large role in something becoming popular. There's a reason why there are countless quotes by fans and even other musicians who outright state that the main reason they decided to check out their first Maiden album was because they loved a certain cover (the debut and Killers being the ones most often cited).

As I mentioned, I'm not a fan of Ghost and don't care about their music, but many people clearly enjoy their music. You can have the best visual gimmick; if the music isn't pulling its weight you won't be able to keep and grow an audience. They must be doing something right. Half the appeal for certain metal subgenres is the over-the-top mentality and theatricality at play. We were raving about a bunch of 60 year olds standing on a stage playing a song while a giant inflatable airplane balloon was hanging over their heads. So, anyone trying to pull the "Ghost are gimmicky and that's actually a bad thing" card in a Maiden fan forum of all things looks a bit silly in my opinion.

Like what you like folks, dislike what you don't enjoy. But there are certainly more productive ways of discussing various bands without shitting on the tastes of other people. Also, y'all are heathens for disrespecing Virtual XI anyway.
 
Eddie's Uncle said:
I ask you something: take Ghosts first album and their live performance of the early days, and now imagine the band performing just wearing jeans and t-shirts on a standard stage. Will you tell me that would have turned into an arena-filler?
But that's exactly what Maiden did. So much for the gimmick comparison
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Someone like Alice Cooper has aways freely admitted it was the gimmick and theatrics that turned him into an arena selling act back in the day and he was completely fine with that, everyone has their own niche and the whole mystery around what happens at a Coop show sold massive amounts of tickets, but are we going to say his music is complete garbage with no substance? He's a legend with a fantastic legacy of great music to go with it.

I see Ghost as the exact same thing, their live show is getting a pretty big reputation but their music is also a massive part of their success too, Square Hammer was voted song of the decade by Loudwire, their most recent album Skeleta went straight to #1 in the US and actually broke a vinyl sales record (shipping more copies than any band has since 1991) Radio were all over the first 2 lead singles, and their fan base genuinely know every song.
When I saw them live fans were singing the songs word for word louder than the band themselves, everyone fully invested in the music, so when you get people gatekeeping and trying to say no one sees Ghost for the music that's just plain wrong.
 
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