Gloryhammer

[Spaldy]

Former member is exposing because he was kicked out, before that he was ok with that, so for me this is not some heroic move.

Maybe he wasn't ok with that? Perhaps he spoke up before and was threatened. Maybe it was the reason he was sacked? You don't know but considering the chats were leaked it's clear someone had a problem with them.

I will not stop listening to band after this, also I am still listening to IE after all, but that doesnt mean that I support that kind idea.

Why? If I found out Steve Harris was a literal Nazi I'd stop listening to IM tomorrow. I'd never let my enjoyment of art get in the way of rejecting hate speech and far-right ideology. I stopped buying Pantera vinyl reissues after Phil did the white power salute.

Thankfully I always considered IE to be a shite band so what happened with them brought some satisfaction. Gloryhammer were an entertaining band but it's clear by those posts that at least two of them are complete scumbags and I refuse to financially support them anymore.

For me it's a matter of principle.

 

[LooseCannon]

Not going to lie, I'm going through that with IE right now and it's hard. I'm slowly coming down on the side of "Iced Earth isn't a band that was overtly political most of the time, and the times they were was mostly U!S!A! U!S!A! rather than hang the Democrats so I think I'm OK with listening to the music but not OK with further productions unless we see a change from Jon".

Considering this is Chris Bowes, it's not just Gloryhammer, either. But I mean, he also just has never seemed like a guy who is particularly nice. I know a girl who groupied Alestorm and Gloryhammer quite successfully and she says he's definitely not a kind chap, and she's not shocked by this at all.

I'm certainly very disappointed and it impacts my ability to give them more money in the future, at least until we see something change.

 

[gazda]

Maybe he wasn't ok with that? Perhaps he spoke up before and was threatened. Maybe it was the reason he was sacked?

Nothing is confirmed, we dont know who leaked this. Maybe he send screen shot to some friends and then the guys leaked chat screens without Tom knowledge.

Why? If I found out Steve Harris was a literal Nazi I'd stop listening to IM tomorrow.

We dont know what is his ideology, but I dont think that he is too liberal guy because of his attitude "only Brits can be in Maiden", and I am totally ok with that.

I'd never let my enjoyment of art get in the way of rejecting hate speech and far-right ideology. I stopped buying Pantera vinyl reissues after Phil did the white power salute.

Why even you started listen to Pantera? They were controverisal from the start

For me it's a matter of principle.

Do you skip The Clansman?

 

[Spaldy]

Nothing is confirmed, we dont know who leaked this. Maybe he send screen shot to some friends and then the guys leaked chat screens without Tom knowledge.

Exactly.

We dont know what is his ideology, but I dont think that he is too liberal guy because of his attitude "only Brits can be in Maiden", and I am totally ok with that.

Steve being perhaps xenophobic (I don't think he is) is a loooooooooong way from being a Nazi. And I severely doubt he is anywhere close to right wing, given all the anti-war songs he's written.

Why even you started listen to Pantera? They were controverisal from the start

I grew up listening to them and I was not aware of any controversy as a teenager. None of whatever controversy you mention was discussed in any of the music magazines at the time. It was only later when stuff about Phil began to emerge.

Do you skip The Clansman?

The Clansman is about Scottish freedom fighter William Wallace. A historical figure. What's controversial about that?

Did you think it was about the KKK?

 

[LooseCannon]

Nothing is confirmed, we dont know who leaked this. Maybe he send screen shot to some friends and then the guys leaked chat screens without Tom knowledge.

Entirely possible. Or someone else shared the chats. We don't know, and while Tom seems the most likely candidate, there could be lots of other people. I'm not so much worried about who shared them and more concerned with the rather vile content.

Steve being perhaps xenophobic (I don't think he is) is a loooooooooong way from being a Nazi. And I severely doubt he is anywhere close to right wing, given all the anti-war songs he's written.

Steve said some pretty nasty stuff back in the 80s, but that was before he was a vastly successful international touring musician. I hope he's learned from it. He seems like he probably does learn these things. Bruce is a little xenophobic too. But honestly, you can be right wing and be anti-war, so who knows.

I know that his art connects with my lefty self on a personal level, so he's done a good job with it.

 

[Spaldy]

Steve said some pretty nasty stuff back in the 80s, but that was before he was a vastly successful international touring musician. I hope he's learned from it. He seems like he probably does learn these things. Bruce is a little xenophobic too. But honestly, you can be right wing and be anti-war, so who knows.

A lot of people I like probably said some nasty stuff in the 80's but it was a different era and we can't hold their past mistakes to today's values.
Them being perhaps a bit on the right wing of politics I can deal with. I know Bruce is a Brexiteering Tory and that won't stop me playing Maiden.

But like I said, there's a limit. If Steve or Adrian suddenly started doing seig heil's on stage I'd have to reconsider my continuing support.

 

[gazda]

Steve being perhaps xenophobic (I don't think he is) is a loooooooooong way from being a Nazi.

Oh man I didnt even connected Nazi and Steve at all, today people just easy dropping that Nazi ideology to everybody, there are a plenty of ideology and fractions. Steve is for sure conservative guy, but nobody saying that he is right wing or something like that.

The Clansman is about Scottish freedom fighter William Wallace. A historical figure. What's controversial about that?

I know that, but Steve was inspired to wrote a song after watching the movie Braveheart. The Mel Gibson movie and he is well known about his homophobic, racist and antisemit scandals. So by your logic we can say that Steve support that because he is watching Gibson movies and he even wrote song inspred by it.

What about Trooper and N.Ireland? People there are not listening to Maiden at all?

 

[LooseCannon]

There's a difference between a bad faith drawing of tenuous links and the leaking of a group chat in which a band member derides people they've slept with using racial slurs and terrible sexist comments.

 

[Spaldy]

I know that, but Steve was inspired to wrote a song after watching the movie Braveheart. The Mel Gibson movie and he is well known about his homophobic, racist and antisemit scandals. So by your logic we can say that Steve support that because he is watching Gibson movies and he even wrote song inspred by it.

That's a massive leap you just took. And no, that is not part of my logic because that makes absolutely no logical sense.

What about Trooper and N.Ireland? People there are not listening to Maiden at all?

What about India, Australia, Hong Kong, New Zealand, Canada, South Africa, United States or just about any other former or current British colony? Bruce still waves the union flag on stage in those parts of the world because he knows his audience are intelligent enough to know he's using it in a historical context and not "Britain is best, fuck you colonial plebs!"

I genuinely don't know what you're getting at here.

 

[gazda]

That's a massive leap you just took. And no, that is not part of my logic because that makes absolutely no logical sense.

But you said that you are not listen to Pantera because of Phil, so you are not watching Gibson movies? And also Clansman is part of that logic because the movie was inspiration for song.

I genuinely don't know what you're getting at here.

Trooper is very controversial in N.Ireland they even drop it from the set in Belfast.

 

[Night Prowler]

Former member is exposing because he was kicked out, before that he was ok with that, so for me this is not some heroic move.

Yep.

 

[LooseCannon]

But you said that you are not listen to Pantera because of Phil, so you are not watching Gibson movies? And also Clansman is part of that logic because the movie was inspiration for song.

Again, a bad faith drawing of tenuous links.

 

[gazda]

Again, a bad faith drawing of tenuous links.

Double standards

 

[LooseCannon]

Double standards

Yes, I have a standard for "person provably was a racist and sexist shit" that isn't the same as "this song, written by a person we agree is probably not a racist, was based on a movie that was made by a person who has said racist things, and the movie inspired the person who wrote the song to write the song based around the non-controversial historical figure the movie was about". If that's a double standard, then I guess I'm fuckin' guilty.

 

[gazda]

Yes, I have a standard for "person provably was a racist and sexist shit" that isn't the same as "this song, written by a person we agree is probably not a racist, was based on a movie that was made by a person who has said racist things, and the movie inspired the person who wrote the song to write the song based around the non-controversial historical figure the movie was about". If that's a double standard, then I guess I'm fuckin' guilty.

Well you misunderstand my point.

If somebody dont want to listen and support Pantera because of Phil, and Alestorm and Gloryhammer because of these stupid guys, then for sure he will not watch any Gibson movie because he is worst than all these guys together.

If we are talking about matter of principal

 

[LooseCannon]

If somebody dont want to listen and support Pantera because of Phil, and Alestorm and Gloryhammer because of these stupid guys, then for sure he will not watch any Gibson movie because he is worst than all these guys together.

My point is this is a bad faith argument, based on a series of tenuous links to create a false equivalency. At best, you're beating around a strawman.

Also you're deliberately misrepresenting what you said, because originally you linked it to the Iron Maiden song "The Clansman" and that was your first point, that people who choose not to support a band shouldn't listen to The Clansman.

 

[gazda]

Also you're deliberately misrepresenting what you said, because originally you linked it to the Iron Maiden song "The Clansman" and that was your first point, that people who choose not to support a band shouldn't listen to The Clansman.

Yes, because if it is a "matter of principle", you can say that I will not listen to song written after movie that is made by that guy.

Just like somebody will not listen to Pantera because of Phil, and I will appriciate that.

 

[Spaldy]

Yes, because if it is a "matter of principle", you can say that I will not listen to song written after movie that is made by that guy.

Just like somebody will not listen to Pantera because of Phil, and I will appriciate that.

Mel Gibson is not a member of Iron Maiden.

 

[DJMayes]

Gloryhammer was one of my favourite power metal bands, to be honest. Ridiculous, to be sure, but the music had conviction.

The band might as well break up at this point, though. A change of vocals is a hard thing to pull off in the first place, let alone one so deeply entrenched in the bands iconography. And the leaked chats are another nail in the coffin.

 

[LooseCannon]

I mean, I don't really get into power metal for deep, thought entrenching themes. I get into power metal for fun. Maybe Blind Guardian/D&W are the exception there, but like, Gloryhammer was never good, they were just fun as hell. But yeah, this probably is the end for the band.

According to my connected friend, Thomas Winkler actually owns the Gloryhammer trademarks, so they might not even have the name.