Magnus
Pica Serdica
I nominate Hammerheart by Bathory.
Maidenfans Album Club: Purest of Pain - Solipsis
- Thread starter LooseCannon
- Start date
Kalata
Out of the Silent Planet
I beg to differ. The albums Denim And Leather (1981) and Sacrifice (2013) are totally different in terms of the musical approach.
The_7th_one
Ancient Mariner
The album has a good production, it's a modern one, but at the same time Saxon try to jump the US Market with this album in the same way that 1987's Whitesnake or Hysteria by Def Leppard or even Bon Jovi and flirt with Hair Metal style sometimes. Very good rockers songs but the ballads ruined the album for me. It's a very good album to close the 80's
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Black Wizard
Pleb Hunter
The_7th_one
Ancient Mariner
Ohhh I forgot it. Sorry, FIXED
I'm partway through side two, and while I don't have any major comments yet, I find it interesting that this album was selected as emblematic of 1980s big name metal, for it certainly isn't.
My one sentence review: Thank goodness this album is only 44 minutes long.
Atrocious from top to bottom, Saxon's Destiny is a showcase for everything that began to go sideways with metal as the 80s wound on. Starting with an unnecessary cover of a Christopher Cross song that fails on almost every single level, we segue into a series of songs that sound almost identical. I can scarcely tell the difference between any track on the remainder of side 1. They all have approximately the same boring drum sound driving us along at plodding speed, hallelujah choruses of the worst kind, and a meandering keyboard.
The absolute low point of the album is the start of the second half, with Song for Emma. Partially written by the producer, this ballad is the song equivalent of a 4:45 toilet flush. After the utterly boring S.O.S, it's the longest song on the album. I don't really have any way I can describe this song other than it made me dislike Saxon for making such a bad choice. It is decidedly not solid.
After we plod through a few more by-the-numbers glam metal tracks, we get to Red Alert, the only palatable song on the album. With a bit more traditional Saxon sound, allowing the guitars to be heard is a breath of fresh air. Even so, it falls far short of the Saxon anthems we're used to, but gives you an idea what could work.
There were bands that did glam metal fairly well, or at least made it their thing. There were NWOBHM bands who moved into this more poppy sound and made a living out of doing it (looking at you, Def Leppard). This album feels like a betrayal at what made Saxon famous. I don't know how I would have felt hearing it in 1988 if I was a Saxon fan. Would I want to wear my denim and leather after hearing this? Did Biff Byfford show up at various gigs with facepaint and his hair coated in hairspray? You could make changes and be true to yourself.
At one point, Saxon was considered a second-tier band in the powerful genre that was NWOBHM, rising above contemporaries like Angel Witch and Diamond Head, to be roughly equivalent of Motörhead in terms of fame, if not influence. This album certainly signifies a huge change in that. Nibbs Carter only joined after this album, which led to the much more traditional and successful Solid Balls of Rock, but it would take years and years before Saxon was considered at that level again - if they ever truly have been, which I doubt. In making Destiny, Saxon may have altered theirs - but they certainly tarnished their legacy.
Atrocious from top to bottom, Saxon's Destiny is a showcase for everything that began to go sideways with metal as the 80s wound on. Starting with an unnecessary cover of a Christopher Cross song that fails on almost every single level, we segue into a series of songs that sound almost identical. I can scarcely tell the difference between any track on the remainder of side 1. They all have approximately the same boring drum sound driving us along at plodding speed, hallelujah choruses of the worst kind, and a meandering keyboard.
The absolute low point of the album is the start of the second half, with Song for Emma. Partially written by the producer, this ballad is the song equivalent of a 4:45 toilet flush. After the utterly boring S.O.S, it's the longest song on the album. I don't really have any way I can describe this song other than it made me dislike Saxon for making such a bad choice. It is decidedly not solid.
After we plod through a few more by-the-numbers glam metal tracks, we get to Red Alert, the only palatable song on the album. With a bit more traditional Saxon sound, allowing the guitars to be heard is a breath of fresh air. Even so, it falls far short of the Saxon anthems we're used to, but gives you an idea what could work.
There were bands that did glam metal fairly well, or at least made it their thing. There were NWOBHM bands who moved into this more poppy sound and made a living out of doing it (looking at you, Def Leppard). This album feels like a betrayal at what made Saxon famous. I don't know how I would have felt hearing it in 1988 if I was a Saxon fan. Would I want to wear my denim and leather after hearing this? Did Biff Byfford show up at various gigs with facepaint and his hair coated in hairspray? You could make changes and be true to yourself.
At one point, Saxon was considered a second-tier band in the powerful genre that was NWOBHM, rising above contemporaries like Angel Witch and Diamond Head, to be roughly equivalent of Motörhead in terms of fame, if not influence. This album certainly signifies a huge change in that. Nibbs Carter only joined after this album, which led to the much more traditional and successful Solid Balls of Rock, but it would take years and years before Saxon was considered at that level again - if they ever truly have been, which I doubt. In making Destiny, Saxon may have altered theirs - but they certainly tarnished their legacy.
Kalata
Out of the Silent Planet
Well sorry about that. I understood (it seems wrong) that we have to choose whichever album from the 80's (from a band, in my case it was Saxon) and not necessarily to be emblematic album for them or for heavy metal/rock genre. Otherwise I would have nominated Wheels Of Steel (1980).
Please point me where you have said the album should be emblematic for a certain band (80's big name metal)...
At least I go for the right direction with my choice for the 90's.
phantomoftheicarus
Bleeding Freak
I'll start off by stating that I've never liked Saxon. To me, they've always been dry, plodding and overall boring. But opinions can change and I dived into this album with an open mind. Unfortunately - my opinion didn't really change.
I'll start off with the sweet stuff. I thought the guitar work wasn't too bad, some stuff I quite liked in Song to Emma, For Whom the Bell Tolls and Red Alert. Not the songs as a whole, but some parts here and there did stick in my mind and I undeniably enjoyed. Looking at the songs as a whole however is where the problems begin.
I would definitely agree with LC that the songs sounded too similar but also too generic and outdated. It was exactly what I feared from the album, and it did very little favour in changing my opinion of the band. There was nothing groundbreaking or things that made me sit up and replay the part, it was just rehashed stuff over and over again. I was excited by Ride Like The Wind, until I realized it was merely a cover. I relistened to Song for Emma and got excited by the guitar work I was suddenly hearing, before realising it had ended and a Fates Warning song had come on instead. This album just didn't work in my opinion, in the sense that it seems generally lifeless and lacking any meaningful punch. Then when you consider the context of the fact it was released in 1988 - a time when NWOBHM had faded to black, it makes me wonder why they stuck so closely to their roots, as this seems like an almost career suicide. Of course there is nothing wrong with bands staying loyal to their roots, but this does seem pretty drastic to me.
And this leads me on to the question posed by LC: forgotten gem or rightfully reduced? I cannot say that this is a gem, or anything close to it, and neither is the (albeit small amount of) other songs I have heard by the band. Whilst it may sound harsh, I think it is deserved of Saxon to have fallen behind like they did. Of course, they commandeered respect in the early 80s for reasons someone young such as myself will never understand, simply because I was not there to witness it all for myself, but nothing lasts forever and Saxon just seem to have been unable to ride the waves and follow their comrades to higher glory. But this album also brings me back to an old thought - why did Saxon even gather the status they did at all? Controversial for sure, and perhaps a bit off topic, but I listen to bands such as Tygers Of Pan Tang, Raven and Angel Witch and wonder why they barely made it at all, yet Saxon achieved a respectable amount of attention. I have listened to Tokyo Blade albums over and over, but can barely make it through Saxon. Is there merely a simple difference of taste, or did the wrong band get the right attention all those years ago?
I don't know if this is how it works but for the 1990s albums I nominate Facelift by Alice in Chains. If that's not accepted then Far Beyond Driven by Pantera.
I'll start off with the sweet stuff. I thought the guitar work wasn't too bad, some stuff I quite liked in Song to Emma, For Whom the Bell Tolls and Red Alert. Not the songs as a whole, but some parts here and there did stick in my mind and I undeniably enjoyed. Looking at the songs as a whole however is where the problems begin.
I would definitely agree with LC that the songs sounded too similar but also too generic and outdated. It was exactly what I feared from the album, and it did very little favour in changing my opinion of the band. There was nothing groundbreaking or things that made me sit up and replay the part, it was just rehashed stuff over and over again. I was excited by Ride Like The Wind, until I realized it was merely a cover. I relistened to Song for Emma and got excited by the guitar work I was suddenly hearing, before realising it had ended and a Fates Warning song had come on instead. This album just didn't work in my opinion, in the sense that it seems generally lifeless and lacking any meaningful punch. Then when you consider the context of the fact it was released in 1988 - a time when NWOBHM had faded to black, it makes me wonder why they stuck so closely to their roots, as this seems like an almost career suicide. Of course there is nothing wrong with bands staying loyal to their roots, but this does seem pretty drastic to me.
And this leads me on to the question posed by LC: forgotten gem or rightfully reduced? I cannot say that this is a gem, or anything close to it, and neither is the (albeit small amount of) other songs I have heard by the band. Whilst it may sound harsh, I think it is deserved of Saxon to have fallen behind like they did. Of course, they commandeered respect in the early 80s for reasons someone young such as myself will never understand, simply because I was not there to witness it all for myself, but nothing lasts forever and Saxon just seem to have been unable to ride the waves and follow their comrades to higher glory. But this album also brings me back to an old thought - why did Saxon even gather the status they did at all? Controversial for sure, and perhaps a bit off topic, but I listen to bands such as Tygers Of Pan Tang, Raven and Angel Witch and wonder why they barely made it at all, yet Saxon achieved a respectable amount of attention. I have listened to Tokyo Blade albums over and over, but can barely make it through Saxon. Is there merely a simple difference of taste, or did the wrong band get the right attention all those years ago?
I don't know if this is how it works but for the 1990s albums I nominate Facelift by Alice in Chains. If that's not accepted then Far Beyond Driven by Pantera.
Like I said, I was looking for big name metal. Saxon qualifies in that genre, for sure, as one of the more famous NWOBHM bands. I was merely commenting that this particular Saxon album doesn't really represent the band as a whole, or the direction that made them a more famous band.
Sure, sounds good, I will add it to the list.
Collin
Chasing Ponce De Leon's Phantoms
Yes please!
The_7th_one
Ancient Mariner
The production, the sound and the guitar work are more sophisticated than their predecessors. That's a step forward. Biff Byford sings really well but a little flat. I think it's an album made to break the US market with the single and the ballads.
Like you said Red alert is a real Saxon song and there is another that is very similar to Maiden style that is very good: For whome the bell tolls. To me the excess of keyboards and those cheesy ballads ruined the album. The Christopher Cross cover is really good but it's not much different than the original except for the guitar arrangements. I think the album is good. It has two or three rockers songs and Ride like the wind.
But I think everyone of us identifies with a piece of music in a certain moment of our lives and that's the extraordinary thing of music. When we have rated our favourite Maiden or Priest albums or songs…we have our favourites and other people have others. We can think that the album is really bad but it's the favourite one of other people.
Like you said Red alert is a real Saxon song and there is another that is very similar to Maiden style that is very good: For whome the bell tolls. To me the excess of keyboards and those cheesy ballads ruined the album. The Christopher Cross cover is really good but it's not much different than the original except for the guitar arrangements. I think the album is good. It has two or three rockers songs and Ride like the wind.
But I think everyone of us identifies with a piece of music in a certain moment of our lives and that's the extraordinary thing of music. When we have rated our favourite Maiden or Priest albums or songs…we have our favourites and other people have others. We can think that the album is really bad but it's the favourite one of other people.
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
That is a good question. If we were allowed to submit more than one album I’d also go with, alongside TCW, Marilyn Manson’s Antichrist Superstar, which isn’t really a metal album, but was a catalyst for how the mainstream media began to perceive metal as.
That's kinda why I picked metal, because I want to talk about the genre that was being submerged by grunge.
We'll add the album and if it is picked, people can argue the point!
Ariana
Black-and-white leopard
Okay. The X Factor, in that case.
But I will add 90s rock (not metal) as a later category!
For me, this specific Saxon album is about as far away from their roots as they ever got. That's why I really found it to be an odd choice. It is almost like Saxon looked at the big name NWOBHM bands - Maiden and Def Leppard - and tried to evolve their sound much as those bands did, then promptly failed. Upon failing they went back to what made them a moderate success and played that and nothing else. I don't count myself as a big Saxon fan. Happy to see them live, but pursuing their discography is boring and ultimately defeating.
@Kalata seems a much bigger Saxon fan - is this album well regarded? I see the reviews from the time were devastatingly bad.