USA Politics

Perun said:
This is a half-truth itself. The 24 days rule applies to military facilities. All nuclear sites, like Natanz, Arak, Bushehr, Esfahan etc. are under 24/7 surveillance, and they have all been redesigned to make nuclear weapons development impossible.
The argument given is that even within 24 days, it would be impossible to remove any trace of a military nuclear program. In any case, any connection between nuclear and military facilities could not simply be covered up this easily; whether this is the case or not, the fact that international inspectors would be given access to a nation's military facilities is a major concession in itself. Just imagine an Iranian inspector asking for access to an American military base. It's a clear sign that Iran is not yet an equal partner in the "deal"/treaty, and they signed it nevertheless.
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"Some experts say that’s sufficient to detect violations, while others disagree." I am not a nuclear scientist .. so I really do not know.

.. again just by virtue of it having been signed, that was probably reason enough to stick with it .. unless there was a serious violation by Iran. Due to relations with Europe if anything. But I am not convinced it was a good deal to start with.. the sanctions being much more gradually listed over time based on compliance would have been a better route .. and on a related note, that is how things should go with N. Korea if a some kind of deal comes out of the upcoming meetings.

Both countries put themselves out of the international norm ... and need to earn their way back in.
 
bearfan said:
"Some experts say that’s sufficient to detect violations, while others disagree." I am not a nuclear scientist .. so I really do not know.
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Neither am I, of course, but in following the whole matter, the experts who said it is sufficient tended to appear more trustworthy to me. Either way, yes, at some point you have to make a decision and stick with it if you want to be taken seriously, and the decision made in the negotiations was to trust the argument speaking for 24 days.

bearfan said:
.. again just by virtue of it having been signed, that was probably reason enough to stick with it .. unless there was a serious violation by Iran. Due to relations with Europe if anything.
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At last, we can agree on something in this thread. :D Thing is, there has been no serious complaint about Iran not keeping to the agreement. Yes, its foreign policy has been quite shabby, but a point had been made to exclude this aspect from the negotiations and the agreement. Pulling out because of this, as Trump more or less explicitly did, is a really, really bad move.
 
Perun said:
Pulling out because of this, as Trump more or less explicitly did, is a really, really bad move.
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Well Iran have allegedly started firing rockets at the Israelis today and the Israelis responded. I wonder if that's a direct consequence of Trump's withdrawal.
 
http://www.nti.org/learn/facilities/170/

Iran is also required to provide the IAEA daily access to Natanz for continuous monitoring of enrichment activities and centrifuge production
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International experts have been working with Iran for years. IAEA is already involved in monitoring and handling of Iranian nuclear waste. The plant by design produces a certain quantity of waste. If that waste is not accounted for by the IAEA it could signal bomb-grade enrichment process. However Iranians gave up on that. You do realize Iranians having an enrichment process ready to go would be akin to Guatemala popping a fully staffed and operational aircraft carrier tomorrow morning, just like that?

What happened here is

1) USA and Iran are, in a nutshell, opposing forces
2) Obama was willing to go into detente, safeguarding peace by taking unbiased international experts opinion, who are field monitoring btw, into account
3) Experts say that Iran uses nuclear power for electricity, and they would know if they (again) took steps for enrichment
4) USA elects Trump
5) Trump doesn't give a fuck about them experts because he's very smart and knows this deal is baaaad for USA
6) Trump brings the whole multinational project into question

People are not amused. Trump is the very definition of the imposter syndrome.
I don't give a fuck if Iranians are burning US flags in their senate. I wouldn't give a fuck if americans would burn Iran flags in their senate. This kind of impact I care about.
When you bring in the trained monkeys and they say it is so, then it is fucking so. There is no politics in engineering there is no public relations in physics. There is no IQ in the orange.
 
Trump and KJU will meet in Singapore on June 12th (just after Download Festival, I'm sure Donald has it in his plans). I'm most looking forward to the ridiculous Trump handshake.
 
2018 has been deadlier for schoolchildren than service members

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(More graphs on linked site)
 
And Trump has pulled out of the North Korean summit, after a week of Kim Jong Un playing him like a fiddle.
 
Two people who hate democracy, human rights and decent behaviour are in love with each other. Colour me surprised. Or orange.
 
It seems likely that Trump has promised to end the US's yearly military war games with South Korea as a carrot. Interesting.
 
@Travis The Dragon (and other interested people), here a good comparison in which you see how media (this is Fox News!) are dealing with Obama and the same media dealing with Trump. I hope this gives good insight to see that certain media can be (very!) against person x and pro person y. It influences the way they bring news, it influences the news itself, it can influence how you think about something.

So, the same fucking topic, but with different Presidents: radically different opinions. For them, it is not the issue that counts, it is the person that needs to be attacked or praised.

Check it out:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2079914588706687
 
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